Are expensive bike lights a rip off?

[Doomanic]

15 years of trial and error,

trawling the candlepower + budgetlight forums

I'm not going to dive into it here because there are already forums full of information

But not easy to disseminate it would seem.
You could write a how to article, I’m sure quite a few people would find it interesting and useful.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

But not easy to disseminate it would seem.
You could write a how to article, I’m sure quite a few people would find it interesting and useful.

I agree, it's a minefield of information. I'd love to write a guide but I just don't have the time, and.....

Unless you have access to a lathe or vertical mill making the housing takes a lot of ingenuity or becomes prohibitively expensive. Modern lights are so good and so (relatively) cheap that it's pointless making your own any more. That's before we start getting onto the safety of making your own battery pack and charging it safely.

Without trying to sound like a condescending arse, if you know you know, if you don't, research the relative forums or please buy something off the shelf. Dentists are expensive, I've had one of my lights fail once, for a stupid reason and it was a horrendous experience on a fast Welsh descent. When my home made one dies I'll probably buy something from Gloworm in New Zealand.

I've fixed many sets of friends generic Chinese lights over the past decade. You couldn't pay me to ride with one unless I had backup. Or charge the thing anywhere near my house. Magicshine are the only decent ones. I struggle to understand how some people are willing to spend £900 on a rear shock (for instance) that is only marginally better than their old one but recoil in horror at the thought of spending £300 on a banging set of lights, and are happy trusting their night riding to a generic 7543000 lumen xxml t18 Chinese light.

This is the best of the cheap generic Chinese lights I've seen. It comes as just a light head, you need to pick a battery and charger from the same website. Still wouldn't charge it in my house though.

KDLITKER BL70S LED Bike Light

KDLITKER BL70S Cree XHP70_2 3000 Lumens 4-Mode High Power LED Bike Light

kaidomain.com

 

[Doomanic]

Unless you have access to a lathe or vertical mill making the housing takes a lot of ingenuity or becomes prohibitively expensive.

That's enough information to put me off. I used to work as a CNC setter/programmer so have the relevant skill but no longer have access to the equipment.

 

[Doomanic]

Still wouldn't charge it in my house though.

I must admit to charging my Chinese and home build battery packs outside.

 

[apac]

I’ve had Kentucky fried fingers quite a few times building large battery packs for DIY ebike builds. From reclaimed laptop cells, to high discharge 18650’s to even more volatile lipo packs. Last pack I built was 84v 27ah. As stated somewhere above by another….. Over a decade of learning and reading on my own in the man cave. I still have a home made spot welder too….. but I ain’t got a lathe.

 

[apac]

I agree, it's a minefield of information. I'd love to write a guide but I just don't have the time, and.....

Unless you have access to a lathe or vertical mill making the housing takes a lot of ingenuity or becomes prohibitively expensive. Modern lights are so good and so (relatively) cheap that it's pointless making your own any more. That's before we start getting onto the safety of making your own battery pack and charging it safely.

Without trying to sound like a condescending arse, if you know you know, if you don't, research the relative forums or please buy something off the shelf. Dentists are expensive, I've had one of my lights fail once, for a stupid reason and it was a horrendous experience on a fast Welsh descent. When my home made one dies I'll probably buy something from Gloworm in New Zealand.

I've fixed many sets of friends generic Chinese lights over the past decade. You couldn't pay me to ride with one unless I had backup. Or charge the thing anywhere near my house. Magicshine are the only decent ones. I struggle to understand how some people are willing to spend £900 on a rear shock (for instance) that is only marginally better than their old one but recoil in horror at the thought of spending £300 on a banging set of lights, and are happy trusting their night riding to a generic 7543000 lumen xxml t18 Chinese light.

This is the best of the cheap generic Chinese lights I've seen. It comes as just a light head, you need to pick a battery and charger from the same website. Still wouldn't charge it in my house though.

KDLITKER BL70S LED Bike Light

KDLITKER BL70S Cree XHP70_2 3000 Lumens 4-Mode High Power LED Bike Light

kaidomain.com

Any idea how many amps that light pulls?

 

[Slapbassmunky]

Any idea how many amps that light pulls?

Haven't measured it. But at 3000 lumens from an XHP 70.2 it'll be doing around 150 lumens per watt. With driver losses etc 25W to be really conservative. So roughly 3A from a fully charged 8.4v pack at full tilt.

I've used one for a couple of weeks, the middle setting was more than enough to get you to the trail head. I know I said buy a battery pack from the same website, but any 8.4v lipo pack will work just fine with it.

 

[apac]

Haven't measured it. But at 3000 lumens from an XHP 70.2 it'll be doing around 150 lumens per watt. With driver losses etc 25W to be really conservative. So roughly 3A from a fully charged 8.4v pack at full tilt.

I've used one for a couple of weeks, the middle setting was more than enough to get you to the trail head. I know I said buy a battery pack from the same website, but any 8.4v lipo pack will work just fine with it.

One more question…. What light colour temp would you recommend from that particular light?

 

[apac]

I'm not sure if winter night riding is for me. It didn't go to well after work today when things got tricky. Just got home with a few injuries. I didn't think my Gloucoma would be an issue but it really was.

Quick update... Whiplash neck and fractured metacarpal in my hand. Back to the Trauma clinic tomorrow which I had just been discharged from. Feeling a bit better about it today. Was well pissed off last night.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

Got any pics or links to that?

 

[Slapbassmunky]

One more question…. What light colour temp would you recommend from that particular light?

If you have a helmet light you need to try and match it to that otherwise things look a bit odd. If that's not an issue go with 5K. It's a bright white without the blue tinge. If you ride on your own or in particularly miserable weather the 4K one will be softer but noticeably yellowish. This is mine, which is 5K

 

[Slapbassmunky]

I’ve had Kentucky fried fingers quite a few times building large battery packs for DIY ebike builds. From reclaimed laptop cells, to high discharge 18650’s to even more volatile lipo packs. Last pack I built was 84v 27ah. As stated somewhere above by another….. Over a decade of learning and reading on my own in the man cave. I still have a home made spot welder too….. but I ain’t got a lathe.

Scary when you come to spot weld the other side isn't it?

 

[apac]

Scary when you come to spot weld the other side isn't it?

I just put them in parallel groups first to get 4.2v strings of what ever Ah, and then add together these in series. It can get a bit sparkly along the way for sure.

 

[superchiwawa]

@Rob Rides EMTB

Hey Rob,

In the spirit of your video, any chance of an ebike specific light (as in ebike powered) showdown video, budget/sponsorship/time allowing?

Doesn't seem to have been done yet comprehensively and I for one sure would love to see that (and find it helpful)

Cheers
S.

 

[pampmyride]

I tried to put a budget light set together using the XHP70 with off the shelf aliexpress parts last year.. It worked, but battery box & wiring let it down. Also light was too heavy for the rubber band mount. The cost was about £70, more now and + vat. My Hope light has developed a wiring fault . So the XHP will get used while that's away at Hope. Luckily it plugs into the Hope battery and I've sourced a bolt up mount now. The Chinese connecting plugs are sometimes skinnier. I'm waiting for a Sofirn Q8 pro to arrive, they are similar to exposure front lights in style and have a camera tripod thread to bolt clamp to. £53 in the sale. Could be a good budget back-up, we'll see.

 

[Waynemarlow]

@Rob Rides EMTB

Hey Rob,

In the spirit of your video, any chance of an ebike specific light (as in ebike powered) showdown video, budget/sponsorship/time allowing?

Doesn't seem to have been done yet comprehensively and I for one sure would love to see that (and find it helpful)

Cheers
S.

Be careful with plugging directly in to your EBike as a comparison. The Bafang series of motors have a limit of 0.5amps on their wiring, we suspect ( without actual testing ) the Levo’s are the same and thus you cannot get full power from your lights. Certainly the more powerful lights tested will be pulling well into 2 amps to get the luminance they get.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

I tried to put a budget light set together using the XHP70 with off the shelf aliexpress parts last year.. It worked, but battery box & wiring let it down. Also light was too heavy for the rubber band mount. The cost was about £70, more now and + vat. My Hope light has developed a wiring fault . So the XHP will get used while that's away at Hope. Luckily it plugs into the Hope battery and I've sourced a bolt up mount now. The Chinese connecting plugs are sometimes skinnier. I'm waiting for a Sofirn Q8 pro to arrive, they are similar to exposure front lights in style and have a camera tripod thread to bolt clamp to. £53 in the sale. Could be a good budget back-up, we'll see.
View attachment 76170

The lumen graph look's diabolical. It cooks itself after 30 seconds and thermal throttles down to a very low level. Id take a Halfords advance light over it with a warranty for a similar price. Although in the lower power levels around the 1500 lumen mark, where it's stable, it makes for fantastic run time. Their numbers seem to break physics as well

I'd be interested in tearing one of these apart to see what makes it tick, with some minor mods it could make a decent light.

 

[Mteam]

I bought one of these the other day

Victoper Bike Lights Front And Back-5000 Lumen Super Bright Bicycle Lights 4 LED 5000MAH Bike Lights Set Rechargeable Waterproof 11 Modes Cycle Lights Fits All Bicycles Mountain Road【Upgrade Model】 : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

To see if it was any better than my halfords advanced 1600 light that I usually run on the bars (in conjunction with another cheapo ebay/amazon special on the helmet). Havent been out for a ride with it yet, but after a quick trial in the garden at night it seems about the same as the halfords light in terms of brightness & distance , but with a bit more wide spread of the light.

The two upper leds have spot style reflectors, the two lower leds have some kind of diffuser lens to spread the light. It has an led 8 segment display to show how much run time is remaining - I have no idea how accurate this it (probably not very). It can also act as a usb power bank if required.

Havent tested the runtime yet.

The mount seems solid enough, but is only designed for 31.8mm bars , so you have to fiddle about a little to get it onto 35mm bars, but it will fit at the point where the bar tapers down in diameter

Its probably nowhere near 5000 lumens, but it would do the job. for £25 it seems decent.

 

[pampmyride]

The lumen graph look's diabolical. It cooks itself after 30 seconds and thermal throttles down to a very low level. Id take a Halfords advance light over it with a warranty for a similar price. Although in the lower power levels around the 1500 lumen mark, where it's stable, it makes for fantastic run time. Their numbers seem to break physics as well

I'd be interested in tearing one of these apart to see what makes it tick, with some minor mods it could make a decent light.

I've a couple of smaller Sofirn lights I use as a head torch. Work well, but exhibit similar characteristics, I find a battery swap at half time helps...
The Q8 has the basics - self contained batteries & (hopefully) easy rigid mount. I'm hoping the Andruril 2.0 UI will allow some tweaking.

 

[Growmac]

So to summarise this thread. Are expensive lights a rip-off? Yes. But also no.

Sounds about right to me.

I'm now running full Exposure (MaaxD and Zenith) and for me it's worth it as I ride at night three times a week.

I have my previous setup for sale (at least theoretically, I've not done anything about it yet) if anyone's interested? Fenix BC30R (1800 lumen peak, 1200 constant) for the bars and Light&Motion 1000 for the helmet. They're not as good as the Exposure kit, but vastly superior to the cheap Chinese stuff. Hit me up.

 

[Kimmoi]

No they are not rip-off.
I have now Lupine SL and C14 on my eBike and Exposure Diablo mk12 on helmet. Worth every euro.
I have had Exposure Sixpack also and that was A Light.

SL and C14 because i do everyday commute also.

 

[maynard]

Yes . My expensive lights really suck . WTF is going on with exposure lights ? Can't I just turn it on and off ? Love the light. Not the on and off function. Was a fan . Not anymore.

 

[apac]

Yes . My expensive lights really suck . WTF is going on with exposure lights ? Can't I just turn it on and off ? Love the light. Not the on and off function. Was a fan . Not anymore.

Two clicks for ON, long press for OFF... what's the problem with that?

 

[pampmyride]

Hope light repaired (wiring) free of charge - thanks Hope.

The Sofirn Q8pro china light arrived in 8 days. Silly bright for 1 minute, then ramps down. Switches up/down power + turbo for the headline 10 snillion lumens.... Built in charger. Added camera mount & gpro bar clamp. The only downside (so far) is the weight - 600g on yer bars. Will test later in the week.

 

[maynard]

Two clicks for ON, long press for OFF... what's the problem with that?

What's the problem? It's awkward and what's with the stupid strobe light as it turns off . Also my motor connected light always turns on when the bike turns on . Annoying . Also it's either super bright or blinding light. Doesn't suit my needs . Also mine just started cutting in and out whilst riding in dark places . Yeh I definitely wouldn't recommend the ebike version to anyone . I'm gonna send it back and try get a refund . I might sell my diablo Also

 

[Growmac]

What's the problem? It's awkward and what's with the stupid strobe light as it turns off .

Perhaps, but it rather effectively prevents the light turning on in your bag and rendering it useless when it’s needed. I think it’s a rather elegant solution. Less difficult to use than Petzl’s alternative.

 

[maynard]

That's never happened to any of the many torches I have owned over the years . Anyways I'm over torches with stupid useless functions. That's great that u like the elegent features

 

[apac]

That's never happened to any of the many torches I have owned over the years . Anyways I'm over torches with stupid useless functions. That's great that u like the elegent features

I do agree with there being far too many options with daft button pressing to get to things. The on/off I can handle, but as you say, what with the strobe when turning off?

 

[Zimmerframe]

what with the strobe when turning off?

So you know it's off

 

[Growmac]

The on/off I can handle, but as you say, what with the strobe when turning off?

I assumed it was to distinguish the "off" from the pause when you're changing modes?

Now, if you want a criticism, then the "tap" function on the head lamps from Exposure is just silly and badly designed. It's hard to use without moving the light, certainly I can't do it reliably, and to turn on or off or adjust it is 9 flashes away and then super fiddly with multiple taps to adjust it. Don't like at all.