Are expensive bike lights a rip off?

[Slapbassmunky]

Interesting and always open to learn from more erudite people. Can I have a clarification please. You quote the four LED unit as the helmet unit when in fact it’s the three LED unit, can I ask you to comment please.

Heh, so I did. Just a typo, what I said still stands.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Ok lets think this through with the 4 LED unit as the bar mounted unit.

The quad you have as a helmet light is using a custom designed optic, as you rightly said the lower one will give you a long, narrow beam to illuminate down the trail, the others are there for spread. The individual optics are smaller because the LED dies are physically smaller, probably xp-g sized. These naturally throw more light down the trail and are easier to focus.

From what you are saying the 3 clear LEDs will be totally focused to throw as much light down the trail and easier to focus as single point round sections of light ? My guess is that Exposure have indeed tried to get as much light ahead as far as possible and using three LED's, spread the light somewhat to prevent a single point. If their manufacturing tolerances are good enough then you would get 3 round blobs of light set side by side with a focal point at some distance. The fourth has a vertical diffuser, from memory way way back from playing with photography that kind of diffuser was used on flashes as a method to send light at 45 degrees ? Here I guess Exposure are trying to get light to spread sideways and infill the short distance light area.

The 3 LED unit is totally obscurred with a series of hex diffusers, again from photography we used to use a hex diffuser to try and get a more natural looking light, are they trying to get a very full and broad short distance light and yet not loose too many lumens through the diffuser ?

Open to learning here as its an interesting subject.

 

[Gary]

always open to learn from more erudite people.

Ok. Who's hijacked Wayne's accout?

 

[Slapbassmunky]

Ok lets think this through with the 4 LED unit as the bar mounted unit.

From what you are saying the 3 clear LEDs will be totally focused to throw as much light down the trail and easier to focus as single point round sections of light ? My guess is that Exposure have indeed tried to get as much light ahead as far as possible and using three LED's, spread the light somewhat to prevent a single point. If their manufacturing tolerances are good enough then you would get 3 round blobs of light set side by side with a focal point at some distance. The fourth has a vertical diffuser, from memory way way back from playing with photography that kind of diffuser was used on flashes as a method to send light at 45 degrees ? Here I guess Exposure are trying to get light to spread sideways and infill the short distance light area.

The 3 LED unit is totally obscurred with a series of hex diffusers, again from photography we used to use a hex diffuser to try and get a more natural looking light, are they trying to get a very full and broad short distance light and yet not loose too many lumens through the diffuser ?

Open to learning here as its an interesting subject.

Not even the best LED will focus how you seem to think it will. You're also forgetting the depth of the TIR or reflector also plays a major part in how the light is focused. I also think you're overestimating just how much control manufacturers have over their optics. Generally they pick LED's based on the size of the light head, the target lumen output and the target runtime. More LED's driven at a lower current will be far more efficient than fewer LED's driven harder, but this creates packaging issues regarding the optics and can narrow down their choice to literally one or two optics that will fit their give package. As I've already said, most (not all) of the time the optics are a standard part off the shelf that can be swapped out. Simply looking at the optic isn't a way to tell exactly what the beam will be like because you don't know for sure what led's are sat behind it. If you look through the khatod or carclo catalogues you'll see the lense in the diablo is one of the narrowest triples they produce, they need to be stippled to get rid of the awful beam artifacts produced by squeezing them all in.

In an earlier post is was mentioned that cheap Chinese lights use the same "T6" LEDs as other more expensive lights. They categorically do not! They use the cheapest nastiest low CRI throw offs that don't make it through crees QC, that's even if you get a genuine Cree one. They
generally have polished reflectors for less loss, therefore they give a bright hot spot with a large halo around the outside and are an utter chore to ride with. The ones that have stippled reflectors give a much better beam pattern.

Long story short, you're not always stuck with what the manufacturer supplies, things can be swapped out, and most manufacturers don't put as much thought as you'd think into where their light is aiming. You pays yer money, you takes yer chance.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Not even the best LED will focus how you seem to think it will. You're also forgetting the depth of the TIR or reflector also plays a major part in how the light is focused. I also think you're overestimating just how much control manufacturers have over their optics. Generally they pick LED's based on the size of the light head, the target lumen output and the target runtime.

In an earlier post is was mentioned that cheap Chinese lights use the same "T6" LEDs as other more expensive lights. They categorically do not! They use the cheapest nastiest low CRI throw offs that don't make it through crees QC, that's even if you get a genuine Cree one. They
generally have polished reflectors for less loss, therefore they give a bright hot spot with a large halo around the outside and are an utter chore to ride with. The ones that have stippled reflectors give a much better beam pattern.

Having spent more than a bit of time playing with photography, I would totally agree that it’s the optics that cost and it’s that that will give you the desired light and shape that you want. Certainly agree that the cheapo stuff is made to a cost point, but they always surprise me just how much some offer for their cost.

I notice you have ducked the call on what you would call as a spot light and what you would deem as a flood of the two examples above. My view is that simply with the use of a hex cell diffuser right across the front , with no effort being made to focus the light value of two different types of LED ( particularly the lower larger one whose optics to focus the beam is about as wrong as you can get ) then the 3 LED unit is a flood light ?

Equally my earlier musings on the 4 LED unit would label it is a predominate “spot “ light.

I’m open to be convinced other wise of course.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

Having spent more than a bit of time playing with photography, I would totally agree that it’s the optics that cost and it’s that that will give you the desired light and shape that you want. Certainly agree that the cheapo stuff is made to a cost point, but they always surprise me just how much some offer for their cost.

I notice you have ducked the call on what you would call as a spot light and what you would deem as a flood of the two examples above. My view is that simply with the use of a hex cell diffuser right across the front , with no effort being made to focus the light value of two different types of LED ( particularly the lower larger one whose optics to focus the beam is about as wrong as you can get ) then the 3 LED unit is a flood light ?

Equally my earlier musings on the 4 LED unit would label it is a predominate “spot “ light.

I’m open to be convinced other wise of course.

I ducked it because you can't tell. Hence why I said you can't tell, without knowing what led's lurk behind them. For a man so versed in photography you should know this, an HID is a wonderful light to focus and shape compared to a compact flourescent?? The triple might actually be a fantastic spot if it hides some xp-l HI's behind it.... The quad might be a fantastic combo of throw and flood if the clear parts of the lense aren't very deep and the patterned part does a good job of directing light up the trail. They could have used a mix of led types to tailor things even further. I'm sure the owner will reveal all with some beam shots if he could be bothered, and I wouldn't blame him if he couldn't.

TIR optics (the plastic ones) will generally give a smoother more coherent beam, be that flood or spot. Where the reflector types (where you can physically see the LED) will generally give a much tighter spot with a large halo around it.

I simply dont have the time or tolerance do discuss this any further. It isn't helping anyone, it's just confusing people. We all know from previous posts what I personally prefer, and without blowing my own trumpet, I'm not exactly slow. I have 5000 lumens of 5K flood on the bars, and 1000 lumens of 5K spot on my head.

I've already provided a link to the one Chinese light I've personally torn apart and know works extremely well. Otherwise, pretty much pick a manufacturer and wave their flag, but like all things there is better VFM to be had if you stray away from exposure/cateye/lupine etc

 

[Waynemarlow]

Fair enough, bike lights have always been a suck it and see and as long as you are happy with what you have, what more could you want.

 

[Growmac]

Presented without comment and without any attempt at normalisation of the camera.

MaaxD Mk 13:

vs Mk 1 Zenith

Sorry, it's obvious that I didn't do a great job of pointing them in the same direction, but I think the difference in beam pattern is fairly clear in any case.

 

[RsGaz]

Has anyone experience of the magicshine monteer 3500 ?. Its about £100 cheaper than the 6500, and for the riding I do is probably more than enough.

I have to say though, sure lights have gotten considerably brighter, but how ever did we get on before multi thousand lumen lights became the norm Were we getting the same fights over the benefits of 20w cateye halogen

I’ve just bought the Olight 3500, it’s identical to the monteer 3500 and was only £100 at the minute from olightstore.uk with a free back light.

 

[Growmac]

In an interesting development, four of us in my riding group recently bought new Exposure headlamps. Two Diablos, two Zeniths. Three of the four have had to go back to Exposure - if turned off when below about 50% charge then they won't turn back on. They're completely dead until they are plugged into power for a second. Obviously not ideal! Apparently it's a solvable firmware issue, but not without going back to Exposure.

Slightly disappointing for such an expensive light, but at least they can fix it quickly.

 

[carlbiker]

View attachment 77023

@carlbiker to the bat phone!

I have answered your call master! Sorry for my absence I’ve been launching a new career in airsoft now!

Plus I’ve not had a light weirdly

Best bang for buck on the market is this MONTEER 8000S GALAXY V2.0 Remote Version use discount code CARL 15 and you’ll bag it for £268 (£48 saving)

I think their the Euro supplier who direct sales direct from the distributor



UK supplier sells it for £390!! The other supplier has a much better setup plus will cover any tax issues also, my order has had zero tax.

here’s a video (v1 8000 vs Exposure Sync mk2) I found, the guy should be a full time youtuber! (Lol)


Wasn’t a planned video but no one else in the world had actually compared the two most powerful lights (directly) within similar price points so I just wanted to help out where I could since not even our host mr Rob has had his hands on it seems! (Who btw in his 6500 magicshine video vs exposure etc didn’t seem to activate the ‘reflex’ mode of the exposure when doing the side by side making it abit on an unfair comparison thus making the exposure look amazingly shit, which it certainly isn’t as you’ll see in mine….)

I did some comparisons but the background was a poor choice in retrospect, you do see some decent examples but if I was to do it again I’m sure I could prove the magicshine spreads much wider and possible further.

Earlier on you can see when we’re stopped how glorious the 8000 is in terms of spread and cast it is wonderful!

About 2 mins in…. Only issue was when we turned Paul’s on we didn’t realise you have to shake his light to wake reflex mode up so at this point we were comparing lights unfairly.

At the end we tried again but didn’t pick a good place to test but you can still get an idea of power still.

At the end we tried again but didn’t pick a good place to test; you can still get an idea of power still.

Personally I prefer the layout of the 8000 lights to the exposures typical narrow ‘torch’ style FOV.

Do yourself a favour, only buy a light with a remote on it, you’ll notice my hand leaving the bars various times to adjust! (Maybe different when battery anxiety isn’t an issue).

Now the v2 has a remote it’s the best light for the money, the exposure as we have seen in this thread has software glitches but when it’s running its excellent.

The reflex mode on the exposure is wonderful, dims when idle, full beam when you get your jank on!

BUT, it is plagued by software issues and you will do well to follow the steps perfectly and have it work first time, the latest models and firmware sound like it ‘may’ have addresses the issue but some are still unhappy.

Prior to V2 I’d have gone for the exposure because of the remote and automation!

The V1 also had this retarded cycle of going from high through multiple modes including flash (as you can see in my vid) whereas v2 has an extra button on the remote to literally go from medium to full power!

So they addresses the only two faults I could find and now it’s an easy decision, especially for £268 with my discount code…

All my band are firmly out of the £50 Halfords camp now and onto £200-500 lights, it just took one to buy one first….

Incidentally my v2 arrives today!

I did try to blag a freebie but I don’t have enough likes apparently or I’d have been happy to do a review (like away peeps!)

Im not doing another one for free, took me about 12 hours to edit that vid above!

Over 700 views and people can’t be assed to hit a like button that takes one second

Fair credit to the youtubers who do this seriously!

 

[Gary]

Awesome @carlbiker.
Thanks.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I did try to blag a freebie but I don’t have enough likes apparently or I’d have been happy to do a review (like away peeps!)

Im not doing another one for free, took me about 12 hours to edit that vid above!

Over 700 views and people can’t be assed to hit a like button that takes one second

Fair credit to the youtubers who do this seriously!

Have you considered making video's for LubeTube ©Zimcorp Apparently, these can be far more profitable. You already have many of the correct keywords like Exposure, Sixpack and Potato Alley.

 

[carlbiker]

And as if by magic!!!!

 

[carlbiker]

Have you considered making video's for LubeTube ©Zimcorp Apparently, these can be far more profitable. You already have many of the correct keywords like Exposure, Sixpack and Potato Alley.

What are the qualifying factors required for such a corp may I add?

 

[Zimmerframe]

What are the qualifying factors required for such a corp may I add?

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you erase your spreadsheet .

You've already made another great step along our approvals process with a picture of a nice box, who doesn't like a picture of a nice box.

 

[rtp]

It makes me wonder how good a quality the magicshine really is, if it's being sold for the price it is on a sister site. It was in stock two days ago.

FWIW, I've used Olight various lights for non-MTB purposes for years and have been pretty happy with them overall..much better than most 'discount' type Chinese brand lights IMO.

 

[MrSimmo]

Does anyone know what the warranty is like on the Magicshines?

About to pull the trigger using @carlbiker ’s link (cheers Carl),

but… I know if my Exposure light breaks I can just drive round to West Sussex and theyll get it sorted, but with Magicshine does it need to be shipped to China?

 

[Orangie]

Outbound lighting, That’s all you need to know

 

[MrSimmo]

Does anyone know what the warranty is like on the Magicshines?

About to pull the trigger using @carlbiker ’s link (cheers Carl),

but… I know if my Exposure light breaks I can just drive round to West Sussex and theyll get it sorted, but with Magicshine does it need to be shipped to China?

Replying to my own question as did quite a bit of research last night.

Magicshine seem to only offer 12 months on the 8000 battery and 24 months on the light. You need to ship it to a distributor who in turn will ship it to Magicshine in China for fixing - after 30 days they state they may not replace the light but will aim to fix it.

Lots of reviews of batteries failing completely after 18-24 months; reported across a few forums/review sites.

UK distributor seems to have had some interesting history with companies house; quite a few comments across other forums around “have they gone bust” and then they reappear at a later date with a slightly different name 2 doors up the road.

While the Magicshine 8000 looks awesome, for that money I’d want peace of mind if something went wrong which im nervous about.

I managed to find an Exposure Six Pack mk11 for £270 all in, so decided to go for that instead. Exposure USE are only down the road if something goes wrong and my Diablo has been faultless so far. Still undecided on lobbing nearly 400g and a coke can sized light on the bars but should be fine.

 

[Randomdave]

Outbound lighting, That’s all you need to know

Agreed. I have a Hangover for my helmet and a Trail EVO for my bar. It's like riding at noon. And their customer service is unprecedented.

 

[apac]

Outbound lighting, That’s all you need to know

Very expensive for U.K customers. They don't have headline figures for lumens, so I guess it's all in the reflector?

Agreed. I have a Hangover for my helmet and a Trail EVO for my bar. It's like riding at noon. And their customer service is unprecedented.

I'm very sceptical when claims "it's like riding at noon" are made. I would be a bit more conservative and say... "it's like riding with your car headlights on".

 

[apac]

My new mk12 exposure Diablo needs to go back. if you turn it off about 50% discharged it doesn't come back on again. I believe it needs a firmware upgrade. Which to be honest is total crap considering they are advertised as over £200. They could at least distribute them as a working torch, no?

 

[Doomanic]

Careful, being rude about Exposure is likely to get same response as being rude about Spesh does...

 

[MrSimmo]

Careful, being rude about Exposure is likely to get same response as being rude about Spesh does...

They’ll fall into the riff raff crowd who dare to ride Surrey without Transporters and Levos

 

[Doomanic]

Guilty as charged.

We might be in a Vito and riding Kenevo SLs next time, will that do?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

UK distributor seems to have had some interesting history with companies house

and yet they keep their position as distributor for the brand.. tells you what you need to know about the brand really.

 

[MrSimmo]

Guilty as charged.

We might be in a Vito and riding Kenevo SLs next time, will that do?

We’ll be similar, my old Transporter just shat itself all over the m25 services so it looks like I’ll be swapping it for a vito.

Might get a transporter badge for it though to fool the surrey locals

 

[MrSimmo]

and yet they keep their position as distributor for the brand.. tells you what you need to know about the brand really.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Pivot]

All the patriotic responses are admirable, but we live in a global village. Let’s face it, 80% of consumer electronics are made in the east and according to international law, as long as +50% of value added activities are in the country, eg. marketing, warehousing, fit batteries before shipment and add modest profit margin, you can put a sticker ‘made in England’

I thought of supporting local and I bought £350 Exposure light. The light was dead on arrival, and I could not resuscitate it. Sent it back, took them 3 weeks to test that it is in fact dead! At that point I requested a refund which took another week.

Sadly, I get better product and service from Alibaba (shock and horror)

Now I will get my flame-resistant coat