Anyone heard of Torx T40 Plus ?

[2WheelsNot4]

I've been advised the motor mount screws should be removed etc using this specific size, rather than standard torx 40.
Anyone confirm this.
Its a 2021 Bosch gen 4 performance cx.

Ta

 

[PenSki]

Correct.

 

[RustyIron]

Huh... never heard of Torx-Plus.
Just googled on it, and the benefits are instantly crystal clear.
Using a Torx driver on Torx Plus is about the same thing as using an Allen wrench on a Torx fastener.

 

[Dax]

Cheap set on halfords:

Laser Torx Plus® Bit Set 23pc | Halfords UK

Shop the latest A Torx Plus® bit set containing both Torx Plus® (6-sided) and Torx Plus® tamperproof (5-sided) bits in both 1/4" Hex and 10mm Hex formats. The set also includes both a 1/4"D and 3/8"D adaptor, together with a magnetic bit holder, all contained in a plastic storage case with a EVA...

www.halfords.com

 

[Sander23]

First time I heard about that. Had to Google it.
When I removed my motor I just used a t40 and that worked, diddnt even noticed it was a tp40

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Good advice then.

 

[Doomanic]

When I removed my motor I just used a t40 and that worked, didn't even notice it was a tp40

This.

 

[Stihldog]

Ordered the torx plus 40 from Mac Tools here in Canada. $19. The t40 is too sloppy for the motor mount bolts on the gen4 motor.
Larger kits are available (if in stock) but may not be necessary. Just the TP40. (Torx Plus 40)

 

[irie]

What is the need for T40 plus, what's wrong with a hex key? How much torque is required? Geez

 

[2WheelsNot4]

 

[2WheelsNot4]

This...... is the start of every thread claiming, "This bolt head is stripped, how the hell can i get it out now oh woe is me oh woe "

FIFY

 

[Doomanic]

FIFY

Except you haven't really fixed it. Torx tools are compatible with Torx Plus.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Except you haven't really fixed it. Torx tools are compatible with Torx Plus.

From the company -
Torx Plus® bits are not compatible with standard Torx® fasteners.
The specifications for these licenses are held by Textron. Standard Torx drivers can be used to drive Torx Plus screws, but not to full torque because of the loose fit. Torx Plus drivers will not fit into standard Torx screws.

These are the main bolts for the motor, and i guess nobody wants one of them chewed to hell.

 

[Doomanic]

If you're cack-handed even the TP bit won't save the fasteners, used carefully a Torx bit is more than adequate.

 

[Doomanic]

Sometimes the “right” tool for the job isn’t available in time. I’m perfectly happy with “adequate” if it makes the difference between riding or not. Incidentally, the correct torque for the motor mount bolts on my Rail is 20Nm. The maximum torque value for M8 bolts starts at 28.8 and rises from there depending on the material grade of the bolt. I’m confident that I can apply less than 75% of max torque without fucking up the bolt head.
As for getting someone “competent” to do it, if I ever find one I’ll let you know.

 

[Zimmerframe]

In theory, you can use Torx on a Torx Plus. It's unlikely the torque level you're using on the motor bolts is anything like the maximum torque design for that size bit.

Here are the key features of Torx Plus along with their benefits:

• Elliptically based geometry
  • Eliminates damaging point-to-point contact
  • Maximises the engagement of driver and recess
• Zero degree drive angle
  • Almost eliminates radial stresses and increases tool life
  • Optimises torque transmission
  • Allows the use of thinner walled recesses
• Lobes with large cross-sectional areas
  • Maximises torque transfer
  • Supports fast tool engagement
• Vertical sidewalls
  • Virtually eliminates camout
  • Ensures proper torque transfer
  • Massively reduced end load requirements
  • Increases tool engagement
  • Minimises tool slippage and resulting damage
  • Helps reduce fatigue and stress during manual assembly operations
• Enormously increased strength and reliability
  • Average bit life increased by 100%
  • Increased bit strength supports higher removal torque capability
• Compatible with Torx Drive
  • Torx Drive tools can be used to remove and reinstall Torx Plus recess fasteners.

The Torx Plus Drive system was developed to improve assembly line performance.

A Torx successor, Torx Plus, was introduced around 1990 when the original Torx patent was expiring. Torx Plus patent expired in 2011.

The lobes are more square to allow for higher torque and to minimize wear.

Standard Torx drivers can be used to drive Torx Plus screws, but not to full torque because of the loose fit. Torx Plus drivers will not fit into standard Torx screws.

 

[Dax]

Sometimes the “right” tool for the job isn’t available in time. I’m perfectly happy with “adequate” if it makes the difference between riding or not. Incidentally, the correct torque for the motor mount bolts on my Rail is 20Nm. The maximum torque value for M8 bolts starts at 28.8 and rises from there depending on the material grade of the bolt. I’m confident that I can apply less than 75% of max torque without fucking up the bolt head.
As for getting someone “competent” to do it, if I ever find one I’ll let you know.

 

[Doomanic]

If the right tool isn't available buy one its simple especially with the next day delivery available these days so that is a bull crap excuse.

If you're trail side with a breakdown a get you home fix is a must sometimes but I'm sure pulling a motor off didn't just creep up on you did it .

A snapped dropper cable on a Saturday was the cause, but don't let that get in the way of you feeling all smug and superior.

 

[Doomanic]

Nope, because I was able to drop the motor and replace it...

 

[Dax]

Seems pretty straight forward? Just put a t40 on the big impact and rattle it until it spins. Stops anyone stealing your motor too

For the sake of £20, I’m going to buy a set of torx plus bits to keep in the drawer and hopefully prevent me ever needing them. Same as my very dusty rail of e-torx sockets that I’ve used once or twice in a decade.

 

[Doomanic]

Hence it stopped you riding .

No, it didn't, because I fixed it. Are you really that hard of thinking, or so desperate to prove a non-existent point, that you'll keep ignoring what I write? Perhaps you should have left me on your ignore list,.

 

[Dax]

Smug and superior LOL
What for buying and using the correct tools !!
And if your talking about smug and superior im not the one thinking they know better than the bolt designers who designed the torq plus system in the first place .

And a dropper post stopped you riding FFS .

So you’ve never made do with the wrong tool to get something done? Used a ratchet as a hammer to seat an Allen or torx bit? Used a screwdriver as a pry bar? Used a flat head screwdriver in a torx screw to get the lid off something?

This is a useful thread because it highlights the existence and use of torx plus, and the potential to damage the motor bolts if you use a regular torx, but it seems weird to descend into fisticuffs because @Doomanic used a t40 so his bike worked the next day.

 

[Doomanic]

£20

Twenty quid??? We're not all dentists you know!

 

[Zimmerframe]

We all know we should use the right tool for the right job, but it's not always possible and as the developers also say you can use a Torx to loosen or tighten a torx plus (but with lower torque) I doesn't seem like a huge overstep for getting something done when/if you need to ?

I normally find Torx to grip amazingly and never cam out or tear up (except in stainless under exceptional circumstances or really crap quality fasteners).

It's more likely the bit will spiral or snap before any damage occurs to the head.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Superior

I wish someone would call me that.

Before this thread gets edited from two pages to 2 posts "Can I " - "yes" ..

Maybe you two should just take some chill pills and make up. You sound worse than me complaining to people using phillips screw drivers on pozi drive bits.

You can start a crowdfund to buy Doomanic a torx plus set and he can send you his enormous collection of rounded bolts which you can start a museum with.

 

[Dax]

using phillips screw drivers on pozi drive bits.

*eye twitch*

 

[2WheelsNot4]

If you're cack-handed even the TP bit won't save the fasteners, used carefully a Torx bit is more than adequate.

Where will you go from here mate, Victim blaming

"Used Carefully"
That sounds like the Cant's argument we used to get BITD when V's came in. Apparently cantis 'When properly set up' were just as powerful.

 

[Doomanic]

I had the same when I bought the first set of Hope disk brakes in our riding group. Then they all had a go in the wet and within a month most of the group was on disk brakes.

 

[Charliektm400exc]

using phillips screw drivers on pozi drive bits.

And don’t get me started on using a Phillips screwdriver on JIS screws.

 

[spicker]

Dang it! And I just dropped the motor to install a dropper post this past weekend and I just used a measly T40!

It was on my partners bike though. (Don't tell her!)