Any answers at Spesh day about motor and moisture issues ?

[StuR]

Just wondering if the above was raised at the Spesh day and if any satisfactory answers were forthcoming ?

Or if shiney new bikes had the desired effect and managed to be enough of a distraction to sidestep the issues

 

[miPbiP]

Shiney shiney bling dribble drool. ;-)

 

[StuR]

Shiney shiney bling dribble drool. ;-)

Mmmm thought so


Maybe the bikes you want don't exist yet Stu.


Clearly not - it's outrageous of me to only spend 7K for a mountain bike and expect it to actually work in the mountains

Obviously I need to buy the new 10K version that's bound to be the Holy Grail

Apologies but my usual lite hearted , chippa demeanor is being tested to the max

 

[miPbiP]

I get it mate.

But so many people get in an endless lather about this stuff all it causes them is stress and grief. Saw that yesterday.

If you think the product is junk, if it causes unhappiness, if you think it's not fit for purpose, don't buy it.

Are Spesh a bit cheeky? Yeah perhaps, there's a case for that. They're not a charity are they? And the UK is only one market, demanding but on a global scale not that important.

These are rich boys' toys. Kids out there sleeping on the streets for lack of a few quid for a hostel. Let's keep it in perspective.

 

[StuR]

Totally get your perspective point , much worse things going on in the world.

Just curious to know if Spesh had anything productive to say on the issues

I'll be taking my bike into the dealers for a new motor this week and I'm on the cusp of instigating a tricky conversation.
Just how tricky depends on how Spesh intend to deal with ongoing issues

 

[escrs]

Basically they said the main issues were that the Brose motor has so many ports for different things like lights etc.. which could lead to water getting into the motor

The Brose motor is an off the shelf motor designed and made by brose and is used by various other manufactures, the only difference for us is that it has Specialized firmware on it, so there isn't much Specialized can do to combat any water ingress apart from informing Brose of the issues the UK faces and speaking to dealers about how best to look after/wash and maintain the bikes and the dealers should pass this information on to the customers

Spoke to their main technical guy (sorry cant remember his name, nice bloke though) and he said that here in the UK were are quite unique in that we ride all year round in all weathers which the majority of riders in other countries don't do due to not having our kind of winters (mainly wet for us) or the fact that most riders in other countries don't ride in wet conditions due to trail damage

We are in a unique position in the UK that we can ride all year round in all conditions, Specialized UK realise this and do pass all the information about water ingress issues etc... back to the development team in Switzerland

The new SL motor has been designed by Specialized and built by Mahle (with some of their input) and Specialized have addressed some of the water ingress issues, for example the SL only has two ports for this reason, the power plug is higher up on the bottom of the seat tube, it is spring closed with a catch which has a sucker on the inside to stop water getting into the plug area

They did say that the Brose motor is here to stay and the SL motor will run along side it, there are no plans for them to drop Brose

Personally i think that in a two or so years they will take the SL motor and scale it up (power wise) to fit the next generation of Levo and drop Brose altogether, that makes sense to me and im sure they would like to have their own complete system (the Levo/Kenevo system of battery, Brose motor and TCU are made by three different companies) on all their range of bikes

Also it seems we are pronouncing Brose wrong! going by the Q&A session they pronounce Brose the same way you say Rose wine (Brose-ay)

 

[Beekeeper]

Shiney shiney bling dribble drool. ;-)

Mmmm thought so


Maybe the bikes you want don't exist yet Stu.


Clearly not - it's outrageous of me to only spend 7K for a mountain bike and expect it to actually work in the mountains

Obviously I need to buy the new 10K version that's bound to be the Holy Grail

Apologies but my usual lite heated , chippa demeanor is being tested to the max

£12499 for the top model

 

[StuR]

Basically they said the main issues were that the Brose motor has so many ports for different things like lights etc.. which could lead to water getting into the motor

The Brose motor is an off the shelf motor designed and made by brose and is used by various other manufactures, the only difference for us is that it has Specialized firmware on it, so there isn't much Specialized can do to combat any water ingress apart from informing Brose of the issues the UK faces and speaking to dealers about how best to look after/wash and maintain the bikes and the dealers should pass this information on to the customers

Spoke to their main technical guy (sorry cant remember his name, nice bloke though) and he said that here in the UK were are quite unique in that we ride all year round in all weathers which the majority of riders in other countries don't do due to not having our kind of winters (mainly wet for us) or the fact that most riders in other countries don't ride in wet conditions due to trail damage

We are in a unique position in the UK that we can ride all year round in all conditions, Specialized UK realise this and do pass all the information about water ingress issues etc... back to the development team in Switzerland

The new SL motor has been designed by Specialized and built by Mahle (with some of their input) and Specialized have addressed some of the water ingress issues, for example the SL only has two ports for this reason, the power plug is higher up on the bottom of the seat tube, it is spring closed with a catch which has a sucker on the inside to stop water getting into the plug area

They did say that the Brose motor is here to stay and the SL motor will run along side it, there are no plans for them to drop Brose

Personally i think that in a two or so years they will take the SL motor and scale it up (power wise) to fit the next generation of Levo and drop Brose altogether, that makes sense to me and im sure they would like to have their own complete system (the Levo/Kenevo system of battery, Brose motor and TCU are made by three different companies) on all their range of bikes

Also it seems we are pronouncing Brose wrong! going by the Q&A session they pronounce Brose the same way you say Rose wine (Brose-ay)

Very informative , thanks

 

[#lazy]

The marzoochi shock failures didn’t get a mention ! You’ve let me down ?

 

[miPbiP]

Totally get your perspective point , much worse things going on in the world.

Just curious to know if Spesh had anything productive to say on the issues

I'll be taking my bike into the dealers for a new motor this week and I'm on the cusp of instigating a tricky conversation.
Just how tricky depends on how Spesh intend to deal with ongoing issues

looking at your history, seems like you've had a crap experience. sorry to see that. understandable you're pissed off.

might be time to escalate it with the dealer/Spesh, get some cash out and buy something else.

you have recourse in law if a product is not fit for purpose.

 

[Jamsxr]

Just give you’re hard earned money to another manufacturer. They all have their issues to be fair, but out of a large group of regular riding buddies it’s always the Specilized owners missing rides due to faults.

 

[miPbiP]

£12499 for the top model

View attachment 25715

don't buy, it's not obligatory.

they don't even want you to, they only make them for the headlines.

 

[miPbiP]

Basically they said the main issues were that the Brose motor has so many ports for different things like lights etc.. which could lead to water getting into the motor

The Brose motor is an off the shelf motor designed and made by brose and is used by various other manufactures, the only difference for us is that it has Specialized firmware on it, so there isn't much Specialized can do to combat any water ingress apart from informing Brose of the issues the UK faces and speaking to dealers about how best to look after/wash and maintain the bikes and the dealers should pass this information on to the customers

Spoke to their main technical guy (sorry cant remember his name, nice bloke though) and he said that here in the UK were are quite unique in that we ride all year round in all weathers which the majority of riders in other countries don't do due to not having our kind of winters (mainly wet for us) or the fact that most riders in other countries don't ride in wet conditions due to trail damage

We are in a unique position in the UK that we can ride all year round in all conditions, Specialized UK realise this and do pass all the information about water ingress issues etc... back to the development team in Switzerland

The new SL motor has been designed by Specialized and built by Mahle (with some of their input) and Specialized have addressed some of the water ingress issues, for example the SL only has two ports for this reason, the power plug is higher up on the bottom of the seat tube, it is spring closed with a catch which has a sucker on the inside to stop water getting into the plug area

They did say that the Brose motor is here to stay and the SL motor will run along side it, there are no plans for them to drop Brose

Personally i think that in a two or so years they will take the SL motor and scale it up (power wise) to fit the next generation of Levo and drop Brose altogether, that makes sense to me and im sure they would like to have their own complete system (the Levo/Kenevo system of battery, Brose motor and TCU are made by three different companies) on all their range of bikes

Also it seems we are pronouncing Brose wrong! going by the Q&A session they pronounce Brose the same way you say Rose wine (Brose-ay)

yeah we're a demanding (technically) market compared to most.

behind the scenes they probably look at the figures at global HQ before deciding how many hoops they're going to leap through to satisfy the UK market.

obviously they also want a robust product for reputational issues and because warranty claims eat margin.

they probably opt for a sweet spot from their POV.

 

[StuR]

looking at your history, seems like you've had a crap experience. sorry to see that. understandable you're pissed off.

might be time to escalate it with the dealer/Spesh, get some cash out and buy something else.

you have recourse in law if a product is not fit for purpose.

To be fair ive loved this bike
But I've been waiting for the inevitable failures.
This last month they've come in abundance and yes they will be fixed under warranty
But how long until the next one ?
I've lost confidence in the bike and Spesh

Also I have no idea which bike is a suitable alternative

 

[miPbiP]

The Whyte?

Or whichever has a nearby reliable dealer?

 

[StuR]

The Whyte?

Or whichever has a nearby reliable dealer?

Much food for thought

 

[escrs]

A good dealer is one of the most important part of buying a e-mtb, Chris@Berkshire Cycles and Richard Butters@ Race co Cycles were mentioned a few times in the Q&A session, if you're within an hour or two drive of either of them then id always go to them for any warranty work even if you bought the bike elsewhere

These guys know the bikes inside out and work with Specialized to get bikes fixed asap (the same day in my experience with Chris@Berkshire Cycles) and offer great deals on new bikes too

 

[StuR]

A good dealer is one of the most important part of buying a e-mtb, Chris@Berkshire Cycles and Richard Butters@ Race co Cycles were mentioned a few times in the Q&A session, if you're within an hour or two drive of either of them then id always go to them for any warranty work even if you bought the bike elsewhere

These guys know the bikes inside out and work with Specialized to get bikes fixed asap (the same day in my experience with Chris@Berkshire Cycles) and offer great deals on new bikes too

Bought it from Chris
Just about within acceptable distance at 2.5hrs each way
Wasn't expecting to earn my own car parking space quite so soon though ?

 

[miPbiP]

Bought it from Chris
Just about within acceptable distance at 2.5hrs each way
Wasn't expecting to earn my own car parking space quite so soon though ?

Yeah but that’s a day round trip. 2 if you have to drop off then go back to collect.

 

[StuR]

Yeah but that’s a day round trip. 2 if you have to drop off then go back to collect.

Agree
It was a calculated decision based on their well deserved excellent reputation V more local dealers that , from experience , don't offer anywhere near that level of service

 

[nobbyq]

I get it mate.

But so many people get in an endless lather about this stuff all it causes them is stress and grief. Saw that yesterday.

If you think the product is junk, if it causes unhappiness, if you think it's not fit for purpose, don't buy it.

Are Spesh a bit cheeky? Yeah perhaps, there's a case for that. They're not a charity are they? And the UK is only one market, demanding but on a global scale not that important.

These are rich boys' toys. Kids out there sleeping on the streets for lack of a few quid for a hostel. Let's keep it in perspective.

don't buy it ?? bit late once you buy it then find out about the problems , i too find it unacceptable that the long term know problems aren't being addressed (publicly) !

 

[escrs]

Yeah but that’s a day round trip. 2 if you have to drop off then go back to collect.

Chris will normally fix the bike whilst you wait, Ive seen a team of four guys remove and fit a new motor in my bike in 15 mins

The longest wait Ive ever had was 1 hour when they were super busy

Id rather spend a day travelling getting my bike fixed at Berkshire than spend a week or longer (have heard of shops having bikes for six weeks trying to fix them) with no bike whilst a shop tries to sort the issue

 

[SquireRides]

I heard something different, but this may just be me being pedantic:

The Spesh guy clearly said he didnt think there was a problem with water getting in to the Brose motor itself. He acknowledged that water and crud collected in the frame, which affects the (many) connectors on the *outside* of the Brose motor.

He also made the point that one of the failures mentioned by the audience (cranks seized) was water ingress in to the bearing rather then motor internals. I though that was a rather pedantic response too! If the bearings go the motor as a whole has to be replaced.

Which does make me wonder, when they quote IP65 sealing on the SL 1.1 motor, does that apply only to the motor ‘innards’ or to the main bearings as well? If it’s the latter, awesome! My current Bosch Gen3 tends to fail at the bearings, but they can at least be replaced without too much hassle (no need for a new motor).

Finally, the Spesh guy said the TCU was exactly the same as the Levo Turbo, when an audience memeber asked if it had improved IP rating.

 

[SquireRides]

One other relevant point: If any of the eeeb components fail out of warranty, there’s a sliding scale of discount on replacement parts. Spesh guy said it starts at 20-30% off one year after warranty... and *I think* he said there’s a reducing discount every year for 3 years?

Personally, I’d like to have heard about service-ability, if there is any. I love that Bosch released a bearing replacement kit for the Gen3 (no word on Gen4 yet), which is a cost effective way to extend the life of those bikes for years to come.

 

[SquireRides]

Reasons to be optimistic about SL 1.1 motor reliability:

• No belt drive
• Higher official IP rating
• Lower power output will almost certainly reduce wear and tear
• Lower power output reduces the need for venting (less places for crud to enter)
• It just can’t be as bad as the Brose / Levo Turbo, can it?

All that said, I dont know what reputation Mahle have for making motors...

Remaining concerns:

• Have Spesh had time to learn from the cabling errors they made on the Levo 2019? Probably not. I suspect we’ll see the same cracked/worn cable problems (nothing to do with the motor though)
• TCU weather proofing has not been improved.

 

[StuR]

Chris will normally fix the bike whilst you wait, Ive seen a team of four guys remove and fit a new motor in my bike in 15 mins

The longest wait Ive ever had was 1 hour when they were super busy

Id rather spend a day travelling getting my bike fixed at Berkshire than spend a week or longer (have heard of shops having bikes for six weeks trying to fix them) with no bike whilst a shop tries to sort bikexissue

Totally agree
My dealer decision was based on the same logic as yours
Chris and his team have always given me excellent service and advice apart from suggestion to remove TCU ,crank and motor cover and blow dry with an airline every time it gets wet .
Which of course everyone can do thanks to the free complimentary compressor with each new bike.

My beef is not with dealers
I actually feel a bit sorry for them , trying to come up with retro fixes themselves.

My beef is with Spesh who don't seem to have any remedial plans

 

[escrs]

For more info on the 1.1 SL motor and its sealing including info about the bearings watch this


As for the water ingress on the 2.1 and 1.3 motors there isn't much you can do about it im afraid, especially with the bearings, just keep pressure washers away from this area and follow any advise given by Specialized or your dealer,

There is nothing Specialized can do about it, its a Brose motor, there is no way of fixing the issue unless Brose redesigned the whole motor then gave everyone a new motor for free which we know would never happen

All Specialized can do is replace the motor for free whilst under warranty and once out of warranty they will offer you one at a discounted rate under their assisted replacement program which is as follows

Assisted Replacement Pricing
Under 3 years35% off
3 and 4 years 25% off
4 and 5 years 20% off
5 years* 20% off
*Applies to frames and framesets only

They have been known to replace motors for free which are just a few months out of warranty, most manufactures wouldn't do this


I think Specialized have learnt quite a lot from Brose and the short comings of their motor hence why they designed the 1.1 SL motor themselves, it has triple seals and the bearings sit a lot further in board

 

[miPbiP]

anyone know the headline replacement cost of the Brose motor?

 

[Zimmerframe]

There was a link several months ago, I think rutland ? were stocking the 1.2 for about £350.

@Kiwi in Wales posted something recently about a 2.1 being about £850 , though I've no idea if that was with or without discounts.

 

[miPbiP]

There was a link several months ago, I think rutland ? were stocking the 1.2 for about £350.

@Kiwi in Wales posted something recently about a 2.1 being about £850 , though I've no idea if that was with or without discounts.

wowser.