Another T-Type Question

[Ou812]

Has anyone went with the manual settings instead of the bike specific settings when setting up your transmission? I‘ve had my XO setup on my Levo for about 10 months now but have never been really happy with the way it shifts and the noise. I was chatting with a mechanic at one of the local bike shops and he said they no longer use the bike specific setup guide, they use the manual guide and have had way better results.

The bike specific for my setup says 118 links and position B, the manual setup guide says position A with 120 links. I’ve ordered another chain to give it a go but was wondering if anyone else has tried it.

 

[Mikerb]

If you say what bike this is on, others with the same bike can say what their chain length and B tension ( A or B) setting is for comparison.

 

[Ou812]

It’s a Spesh gen 3 Levo Pro. The bike specific setup says position B and 118 links for a 36t chainring.

The manual set up based on chainstay length says position A with a 120 links for a 36t chainring.

I just want it to shift better, it’s perfect in the middle of the cassette but it gets jumpy and noisy when you go up or down. The smallest cog is the worst so I’ve just been avoiding it.

FWIW I have the transmission on 3 other bikes, the Levo is the only one that doesn’t seem to get along with it. It’s also the only bike that doesn’t have a 55mm chainline.

 

[Mike O]

I don't have any constructive help for you, but out of curiosity, what was the part number of the kit you installed? Trying to resolve similar issues myself. I'm fairly convinced mine is a set-up issue from the LBS as I've ridden SRAM transmission on Levo's that were "perfection".

 

[Ou812]

I don't have any constructive help for you, but out of curiosity, what was the part number of the kit you installed? Trying to resolve similar issues myself. I'm fairly convinced mine is a set-up issue from the LBS as I've ridden SRAM transmission on Levo's that were "perfection".

I don’t remember the part number but it was the e-bike kit with the 104bcd chainring. I haven’t been able to ride so I’ve been tinkering with the bike to pass time, I’ve noticed now that if I torque my axle to 15nm the rear wheel won’t turn at all. I’ve never really used a torque wrench on my axle before just snugged it up. I wanted to eliminate that as a possibility so I torqued it and it won’t move

 

[Mike O]

I don’t remember the part number but it was the e-bike kit with the 104bcd chainring. I haven’t been able to ride so I’ve been tinkering with the bike to pass time, I’ve noticed now that if I torque my axle to 15nm the rear wheel won’t turn at all. I’ve never really used a torque wrench on my axle before just snugged it up. I wanted to eliminate that as a possibility so I torqued it and it won’t move

Did this kit use your cranks/spider?

 

[Ou812]

Did this kit use your cranks/spider?

Yeah, you just swap the chainring

 

[Rikshaw]

What hub are you running? I have heard that certain hubs i think XDR need a spacer behind the cassette to convert to XD. This can throw off the alignment if not set up correctly. Just a thought

 

[Ou812]

What hub are you running? I have heard that certain hubs i think XDR need a spacer behind the cassette to convert to XD. This can throw off the alignment if not set up correctly. Just a thought

DT350s, basically I just swapped the factory XO cassette for the T-Type XO cassette. I would have probably never noticed it if I hadn’t of been trying to sort the shifting out and actually torqued the axle to spec instead of just snugging it down like normal.

 

[Rod B.]

Has anyone went with the manual settings instead of the bike specific settings when setting up your transmission? I‘ve had my XO setup on my Levo for about 10 months now but have never been really happy with the way it shifts and the noise. I was chatting with a mechanic at one of the local bike shops and he said they no longer use the bike specific setup guide, they use the manual guide and have had way better results.

The bike specific for my setup says 118 links and position B, the manual setup guide says position A with 120 links. I’ve ordered another chain to give it a go but was wondering if anyone else has tried it.

Ou812,

I myself have not used the manual guide. I followed SRAM's installation video and several other YouTube videos when I installed the SRAM T-Type drive train on my 2022, Gen 3 Turbo Levo, Size S4 frame. My bike's frame was set in the "High" flip chip frame position. My Levo shifts with perfection. I used 118 links and I positioned the derraileur arm on the "B" pin position.

I mention the information depicted below to help you and others on the forum regarding a successful installation of the SRAM T-Type deraileur. I apologize if you or others already know this information:

During derailleur installation, the upper deraileur pulley must be positioned on the correct cassete gear. The chain must be positioned on the same gear. As an example, SRAM requires that my Gen 3 Turbo Levo have the T-Type derailleur positioned on the 21T cassette cog when performing preliminary tuning alignment using the shift pod microshift feature.

It's important to point out that with the bike on a bike stand and in a non-sag frame position, your T-Type transmission will most likely not shift smoothly. The SRAM T-Type system shifts best in the sag position with rider weight on the bike. I found that to obtain smooth shifting, I had to perform my final derailleur shift pod "Micro Adjust" tune while I was riding my bike. My bike shifts beautifully when I'm on it, but not so fine when it is in the bike stand and in a "Non-Sag" relaxed position.

Because the T-Type derailleur has no High, Low or B Gap adjustement screw adjustments, it relys upon the correct chain length to achieve proper B-Gap position. B Gap is the distance that the upper pulley is from the cassette when shifting. If your B Gap is off, your bike will not shift smoothly or correctly. It will grind a bit and the shifting will be spotty under load. It's super critical that you use the correct amount of chain links to achieve the correct B Gap adjustment.

As you know, SRAM provides a chain length calculator app. However, if your Levo model is not listed on SRAM's T-Type chain calculation chart, you can manually calculate the correct chain length using SRAM's secondary chart. It uses the length of your bike's chain stay. Your chain stay length can be obtained from Specialize's geometry chart for your bike and the bike's frame size. As an example, the Gen 3, Turbo Levo, size S4 frame, has a chain stay length of 442mm. SRAM's chain link calculator for a 442mm chain stay length calls for 118 links. How many chain links you use will depend on your Specialized eBike model, frame size, chain ring size, and it also may depend upon what "Height" position your frame is set at via the frame's flip chip. As an example, if your bike's flip chip setting is set in the High or Low position, it may throw off the correct chain length you need for proper B Gap. It's just a thought...

When performing the B Gap adjustment portion of the T-Type derailleur installation (Minute 6:50 in the video), You must have the derailleur arm resting on the correct A or B pin position and not fully released into a full tension position. With the derailluer arm resting on the A or B pin setting, only then remove slack from the chain. You don't need to pull back super hard on the derailleur arm to remove slack from the chain, however you do need to make sure there isn't any slack in the chain at the chainring, etc. Lastly, as you pull back on the drailleur arm to remove slack, make sure the alignment "Hash" marks on the derailleur hanger are aligned. The hash marks must be aligned before you tighten the derailleur in it's final B Gap adjustment position.

Pivot Shuttle AM Pictured

If your B Gap adjustment is off and the hash marks are not aligned, your bike's B Gap will be off and your bike will shift like garbage when the chain moves to the high and low ends of the cassette. This is because the upper derailleur pulley is either too close or too far from the cassette. The correct B Gap spacing is essential for good shifting.

Lastly, if your derailleur pulley is not correctly aligned with the cassette cogs using the shift pod's microshift tuning feature, your bike will shift poorly. You will need to do a preliminary micro shift tune during the initial derailleur installation. After you have finished the installation, you will need to do a secondary fine tuning. This is done while riding the bike under load and using the shift pod micro shift tune feature.

When I installed my T-Type derailleur on both my Levo and Shuttle AM, I used SRAM's video installation instuctions. It's really important that you do not skip the section in the video (Video Minute 6:50) which explains that you must position and rest the derailleur arm on the Position A or B Pin and not completely release the derailleur arm into the full tension position. The video doesn't really make clear how important this is. The arm must be resting on the position A or Position B pin in order to obtain proper B gap. With the derailleur arm resting on the correct position pin, you then remove slack from the chain by pulling back on the derailleur body and tighten. Make sure the alighment tabs on the drailleur body are correctly aligned before tightening the derailleur into it's final B Gap position.


Be safe,
Rod

 

[Ou812]

I’m extremely familiar with the setup procedures, I have 3 other bikes with XO transmissions that I’ve installed. They all shift perfect, it’s only the Levo that I’ve had issues with. The other bikes are 55mm chainlines which the T-type was designed for, the Levo is a 52mm chainline so I thought that may be causing some of the issues. I know there’s tons of people out there with the transmission on their Levos and have no issues so I’m thinking it’s something else.

The thing I don’t get is the bike specific guide has you in position B with 118 links for my setup. If you go with the manual setup and use the chainstay length it comes up with position A with 120 links. IMO it should be the same either way, SRAMs guide contradicts itself. The manual setup guide also says the bike has to be set up at SAG while the specific guide doesn’t.

 

[Rod B.]

I’m extremely familiar with the setup procedures, I have 3 other bikes with XO transmissions that I’ve installed. They all shift perfect, it’s only the Levo that I’ve had issues with. The other bikes are 55mm chainlines which the T-type was designed for, the Levo is a 52mm chainline so I thought that may be causing some of the issues. I know there’s tons of people out there with the transmission on their Levos and have no issues so I’m thinking it’s something else.

The thing I don’t get is the bike specific guide has you in position B with 118 links for my setup. If you go with the manual setup and use the chainstay length it comes up with position A with 120 links. IMO it should be the same either way, SRAMs guide contradicts itself. The manual setup guide also says the bike has to be set up at SAG while the specific guide doesn’t.

View attachment 148497 View attachment 148498

Ou812,
That is interesting regarding the difference in specifications between the SRAM setup calculators. Which Levo do you have?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's due to Specialized making multiple bikes named Levo, i.e. Levo SL, Turbo Levo. We can add Kenevo to the list while were at it, Kenevo sounds like Levo. It's possible somebody at SRAM didn't get their morning coffee and confused bikes when they were programming the numbers into the setup manual and mobile app. It would not be the first time that something like this has happened.

Several things come to mind with your situation. Obviously, your bike isn't shifting correctly. If the T-Type system that you are installing is new, then I would use the 118 link T-Type chain you previously used during the first setup. I would take a few used quick links and add them to the 118 link chain and make it a 120 link chain. I would then do the derailleur setup using the A pin position and 120 link chain. If your bike shifts smoothly, your in the chips. I would then go out and buy a new chain, break it down to 120 links and install it.

On the other hand, say the T-Type derailleur you are installing is used. It might be that the derailleur arm has taken a hit on a rock, but it's not readily apparent that the arm is bent. Maybe its now tweaked slightly and this could be the cause of the poor shifting. As a side note, this has happened to several of my friends who also have T-Type derailuers. The T-Type arm will bend if it hits a rock at the right angle. Since you have several T-Type derailleurs on your other bikes, I'd do a quick swap out of the derailleur arm. The T-Type derailleur arm is designed to be removed from a bike without having to break the chain. You can always experiment by removing the derailleur arm off of another of your T-Type derailluers and try it on the derailleur you are trying to get shifting correctly. Set the bike up using the 118 link chain and B pin position. If your bike shifts smoothly, your Good to go. On the negative side, your ass out with a bent derailleur.

If you could keep us posted on what you come up with, I would really appreciate it. As a gear nerd, I love learning and hearing about new things.

Be safe,
Rod

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In fantastic news for anyone with SRAM’s latest T-Type wireless transmission, the cost of repairing a bent rear derailleur has just become significantly cheaper. Even with the new drivetrain’s sturdy construction, a twisted cage is always a possibility, given the rear mech’s proximity to the...

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[steve_sordy]

That is a really helpful post from @Rod B.
Derailleurs can get a knock that is sufficient to knock them off kilter without it looking obvious. I can't remember ever having misaligned rear mechs up to and including 10-speed. Then I went 12-speed and within weeks I was having problems with shifting problems that my usual black magic skills were insufficient to fix. A trip to the LBS and it took them 15 mins to fix it with the aid of an alignment tool. After a few further frustrating problems and trips to the LBS, I bought one of the tools and used it myself. Dead easy to use.