Another December Chain thread (for muppets) ... Yawn ...

[GrandPaBrogan]

A carbon fibre chain ?
I’ll start hydro dipping a carbon fibre pattern onto some old chains now.

I might even make just enough money to buy a S-Works Levo ?

^ Nah, nah, nah... everybody hates faux-carbon. Has to be real to make a steal!

You can buy real carbon fibre sheets and make lots and lots of 'side plate' chain outlines and get those CNC 'water-jet cut.' Spray clear gloss over the sheet first before you get the outlines cut. That way it'll be shiny and you can add a few more zeros to your RRP.

Your hands are gonna hurt though, when you extract all the pins and rollers off a chrome-plated metal chain with your chain-splitter. Then you need to reassemble the whole darn thing again but with your carbon side plate cut-outs. But hey, don't forget to send us a pic of your new S-Works!

- -
Fair warning though... don't stare for too long at carbon fibre weave, or you may get hypnotised into thinking that the stupid thing might just work on a real bike. The good news is that you won't get chain stretch because carbon is resistant to that. The bad news is that you'll get carbon splinters instead - stuck to the backside of your right leg.

 

[outerlimits]

^ Nah, nah, nah... everybody hates faux-carbon. Has to be real to make a steal!

You can buy real carbon fibre sheets and make lots and lots of 'side plate' chain outlines and get those CNC 'water-jet cut.' Spray clear gloss over the sheet first before you get the outlines cut. That way it'll be shiny and you can add a few more zeros to your RRP.

Your hands are gonna hurt though, when you extract all the pins and rollers off a chrome-plated metal chain with your chain-splitter. Then you need to reassemble the whole darn thing again but with your carbon side plate cut-outs. But hey, don't forget to send us a pic of your new S-Works!

- -
Fair warning though... don't stare for too long at carbon fibre weave, or you may get hypnotised into thinking that the stupid thing might just work on a real bike. The good news is that you won't get chain stretch because carbon is resistant to that. The bad news is that you'll get carbon splinters instead - stuck to the backside of your right leg.

You’ve thought about this way too much ?‍

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

^ Just making things up as I go. Didn't realise I had so much 'muppet juice' stored in my head...

 

[albort1]

Chain wear and performance.I was sent this article by my lbs.Some interesting reading if you have the time.
Finding the best bicycle chain: What over 3,000 hours of testing revealed | CyclingTips

 

[Zimmerframe]

Didn't realise I had so much 'muppet juice' stored in my head...

We did .... Let it flow !!!!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Chain wear and performance.I was sent this article by my lbs.Some interesting reading if you have the time.
Finding the best bicycle chain: What over 3,000 hours of testing revealed | CyclingTips

Hadn't read the whole thing before. Makes for interesting reading.

Is it just an e-bike thing or a real world thing, but the chain distances seem to bare absolutely no relation to the real world experiences on the forum ?

If that's the case then can we make a huge assumption that the results in lab based scenarios show a logarithmic life expectancy compared to real world. So basically, you might as well buy the cheapest one and change it every 3 months, instead of the most expensive which you're changing every 4 months (for instance). Especially when taken into account with cassette costs and a worn/stretched chain causing significantly faster cassette and chainwheel wear.

(I would like to point out for readers amusement, that this is written using two keyboards as T 3 8 and other letters have stopped one and the other is an "amazon basics" pile of crap backup keyboard which shouldn't even be used as an abrasive device to remove excess poo from a piglets rear. If you type even remotely quickly it decides you're moving and clicking the mouse and warps you to a random place on the screen and continues to type there. Which is quite ironic as the touch pad is like a bicycle handlebar made from jelly in its effectiveness. ) .. FECK !

 

[outerlimits]

Hadn't read the whole thing before. Makes for interesting reading.

Is it just an e-bike thing or a real world thing, but the chain distances seem to bare absolutely no relation to the real world experiences on the forum ?

If that's the case then can we make a huge assumption that the results in lab based scenarios show a logarithmic life expectancy compared to real world. So basically, you might as well buy the cheapest one and change it every 3 months, instead of the most expensive which you're changing every 4 months (for instance). Especially when taken into account with cassette costs and a worn/stretched chain causing significantly faster cassette and chainwheel wear.

(I would like to point out for readers amusement, that this is written using two keyboards as T 3 8 and other letters have stopped one and the other is an "amazon basics" pile of crap backup keyboard which shouldn't even be used as an abrasive device to remove excess poo from a piglets rear. If you type even remotely quickly it decides you're moving and clicking the mouse and warps you to a random place on the screen and continues to type there. Which is quite ironic as the touch pad is like a bicycle handlebar made from jelly in its effectiveness. ) .. FECK !

So buy cheap chains and use cheap chains, but be very wary of using the same principles when buying keyboards.
You could always go back to pen and paper to write your posts if you have that much trouble using a keyboard. Just make sure you upload a pic of what you have written ?
And Ffs do not resort to adding in the missing letters with a felt tip pen on your screen. But if you do, we want to see pics ?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

We did .... Let it flow !!!!

Ah stop egging me on, Zimmer the Enabler!! I’ve been trying to behave.

Since my adult kids left home, all my “daddy jokes” have been repressed with no outlet.

Careful what you wish for!

 

[outerlimits]

Ah stop egging me on, Zimmer the Enabler!! I’ve been trying to behave.

Since my adult kids left home, all my “daddy jokes” have been repressed with no outlet.

Careful what you wish for!

yeah @Zimmerframe he’s a sic man who puts muppets in a blender and drinks their juice. Stop enabling him, we can’t have a continuation of this sort of behaviour in this establishment ?‍

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

yeah @Zimmerframe he’s a sic man who puts muppets in a blender and drinks their juice. Stop enabling him, we can’t have a continuation of this sort of behaviour in this establishment ?‍

Awe heck, the thread title does say it's a December Chain Thread (for muppets)... so we still have a few days of muppetting - then it'll be over.

The ONLY way to get rid of chain stretch of course (and all this cleaning & lubing hoopla) - is to get rid of the chain. Not my idea this, so don't shoot the messenger...

Imagine that reconfigured into an eMTB. No more complaints about long chain stay lengths either... although, where to put the rear suspension? hmmm...

 

[Janc]

That can't be right, they're only 4.99 ? That link must go to a special chain reaction Scottish only site ??

Out of stock - you lot must have bought them all!
Please delete if this ahijack. I'm using as SRAM GX12sp chain - it snapped at 350 miles and try as I cold I failed to undo the link on the trail with my fingers. (been using SRAM 9sp gold links for year with no problems. Luckily my son had a leatherman that just about did the job. Now at home I tried all the you tube videos I could find to do it by hand and couldn't so resolved to pliers again. So on with a nice new chain and now I can't do up the new link! It only closes about half way - time to put my svelt 106kg on the pedals!
Can someone tell me what the point of having a link that can't be done or undone without a special tool is?

 

[Gary]

12 speed GX uses a POWERLOCK quicklink, It's a one use item and as such isn't supposed to be re-useable. You're meant to use a new one each time you join a chain.
They are however still splittable and re-joinable (with a quicklink tool)

RTFM

Technologies:
PowerLock®

SRAM chain engineers developed PowerLock® as a tool free, sure, and consistent way to connect our chains. While PowerLock® does not require special tools for installation, the especially tight tolerances of 10-, 11- and 12-speed drivetrains mandate that each PowerLock® is good for a one-time application only.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Out of stock - you lot must have bought them all!

At 4.99 how could we resist !

I think you can close the link similarly to opening the link with a leatherman, but just push the two opposite link corners together, to the ones you push together to open the link.

Or the stomp method, but not like I did with the link on the bottom, will only work with the link on the top run.

I did watch one video where they said on the 10/11/12 speeds the link worked differently and you had to squeeze the links together at the same time as sliding them in opposite directions. Didn't work for me though. @Gary has shed more light on this, but no one likes a smart arse

 

[Zimmerframe]

Had a quick ride today .. it still sounds like a roller coaster lift chain ..

Eventually tracked it down to the chain as it leaves the chainring.

I'm guessing my re-cycled coke can chainring has worn slightly due to my original chain stretching.

The chain seems to get hooked up on the teeth and, if you watch carefully, "clunk" as it releases from each tooth..

So I guess I need to change my chainring, or use some voodoo file action on the backside of each tooth. or is that the front side ? or is back and front the completely wrong terminology ? Maybe there is something to be said for the praxis steel one, especially if you're a maintenance muppet.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

^ Don’t know the terminology either, perhaps the front of the tooth?

They’ve mushroomed and splayed out which is snagging the links. Time to change that if I was you... likely to wreck your new chain.

Filing the sides of the teeth will only get rid of the snag noise, but the pitch of those chainring teeth is not standard anymore. They now match the pitch of the former stretched chain.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Can someone tell me what the point of having a link that can't be done or undone without a special tool is?

It's still quicker and easier than using a chain splitter and re-joining the chain with a new rivet - especially if the quick link is re-useable. (Seems to me there isn't much advantage for single use quick links).

Of course, you could follow the example of one of the lads on my "Friday Old Geezer Coffee Runs", who proudly announced that he had bought himself a quicklink after watching us repair a couple of broken chains the previous week. (One done with a quicklink and the other done by carefully replacing a chain rivet because the other guy didn't have a quicklink). When I asked what size link it was, he replied that it was a 10-speed, just like I'd used on my busted chain. He'd seen what I used and bought exactly the same thing. That'll do well on his 8-speed setup.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I'm guessing my re-cycled coke can chainring has worn slightly due to my original chain stretching.

The chain seems to get hooked up on the teeth and, if you watch carefully, "clunk" as it releases from each tooth..

Maybe there is something to be said for the praxis steel one...

At first I was really puzzled by the sounds your chain was making. Then after watching it again I only just noticed the empty right pedal and immediately admired how you were able to video AND ride that bike with just your left foot pedaling!

Because I naturally “think with pictures,“ I saw this mental animated picture in my head (slathered with muppet juice) of you pulling-off this amazing feat and display of cycling agility - surely only made possible on an eBike with a horrendously long motor over-run!

Then... the clues slowly clicked together, duh. You were walking the bike and that intermittent crunchy sound your chainring was making - has got to be your footsteps munching autumn leaves.

Oh boy...
Anyway:
I’d say all that riding in the mud you’ve been doing was like spreading grinding paste on your chain and alloy chainring. Hard to see exactly on the video, but the narrow-wide tooth profiles appear to be gone. They look like sharpened mini chisels (maybe optical illusion).

Steel Praxis chainrings would make better sense for mud rides.

 

[Zimmerframe]

At first I was really puzzled by the sounds your chain was making. Then after watching it again I only just noticed the empty right pedal and immediately admired how you were able to video AND ride that bike with just your left foot pedaling!

You've lost me. I thought they had two pedals so you could use one leg, then when it's tired, you change to the other leg ?? Quick release pedals and cranks would be a good weight saver, but then you'd have to stop when you change legs !

That damned muppet juice .... But yes, you are correct, walk mode, on an incline, so it has to work a bit to make the noise more .. I think the praxxis steel is the way to go, especially with the winter conditions .. I'll have a look at the ally ring tomorrow and see if it cant be bodged whilst I'm waiting. Todays ride was crap, just mud, water, branches and trees everywhere (its been stormy) and endless rain forecast for as long as it forecasts ...

I've kinda resigned myself to plodding for the moment .. two shots from todays slippy wet plod ...

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just in case anyone ever ends up here in the future, not looking for recipes for Muppet Juice :

Praxis - E-Ring - Wave - 36t - 104 BCD (Direct Threaded) - Upgrade Bikes

The threaded 36t 104bcd. They deliver to pretty much everywhere from the look of it.

Not in stock at the moment, due in January, you can add yourself to be notified. Or just ask @Christian in Melbourne to goto his local shop, where they have loads in stock, and get him to fly one over personally.

 

[CjP]

Just in case anyone ever ends up here in the future, not looking for recipes for Muppet Juice :

Praxis - E-Ring - Wave - 36t - 104 BCD (Direct Threaded) - Upgrade Bikes

The threaded 36t 104bcd. They deliver to pretty much everywhere from the look of it.

Not in stock at the moment, due in January, you can add yourself to be notified. Or just ask @Christian in Melbourne to goto his local shop, where they have loads in stock, and get him to fly one over personally.

I’d be more than happy to fly anywhere/anytime at someone else’s expense.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’d be more than happy to fly anywhere/anytime at someone else’s expense.

You're so tight !

Does seem pretty reasonable though and I'd be the same .. Maybe we should create a fund to fly forum members around the world to hand deliver parts and go for a ride ..

Maybe @GrandPaBrogan can siphon some of the billions back in which he's made selling muppet juice ..

 

[CjP]

Lol I’m just picturing customs now. Suitcase full of chainrings, mucky nuts and vegemite.
Should go down well

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

You're so tight ! Maybe @GrandPaBrogan can siphon some of the billions back in which he's made selling muppet juice ..

Muppet Juice is water-based chain lube specifically formulated for muddy conditions. There is no recipe to sell because it’s just plain water. Companies that bottled water, sold it for more than the price of petrol, and spewed tonnes of plastic into our landfills are the ones that made billions, not me.

Anyway, the trick is in the Muppet Juice applicator. Here’s how you make one. Go to your local car wrecker and get the smallest windshield washer reservoir you can find. It’ll have a mini motor/water pump already in it - grab the hose and jet nozzle too. Fill with water and install on your frame somewhere. Connect the wiring to your battery and a push button switch on your handle bar. Route the hose so that the jet nozzle is pointed at your chain just before it feeds into your chainring.

Viola, you now have a chain washer! Occasionally when you slosh through mud, give your chain washer a quick squirt - instant mud-free chain! You no longer need a steel Praxis chainring.

If you can’t find a spot to install the reservoir, there’s plenty of room between your front tyre and head tube. It’ll be in between your fork stanchions too so it’ll be protected.

You’re welcome!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Viola, you now have a chain washer! Occasionally when you slosh through mud, give your chain washer a quick squirt - instant mud-free chain! You no longer need a steel Praxis chainring.

This is really going to help reduce the number of times my right foot smells of piss !

 

[Zimmerframe]

Got the ally one off ... I was going to spin it over and have it inside out temporarily, but it was such a pig to get off, I cant be bothered putting it back on.

The "nuts" don't have any slots and as I did it on the bike, it was impossible to stop them spinning.. grrrrrr ...

Anyway, excuse the photo quality, they're doing a shoot for next years bikini line in the studio and when I popped in to ask if I could just take a quick photo of my nuts and dirty ring I got shooed out and told I was disgusting, I guess some people just don't like bikes.

LE ring and bolts/nuts .. top two are the outside, bottom two are the inside - now looking less than pristine ..

Close up outside of ring :

Close up inside of ring :

I'm guessing that's about 600ish km's on that, with the chain being about 200km's ish old when it was installed .

Lube was Muc off dry, in the dry .. and Muc off wet in .... the wet ... though I think I used too much of the wet lub and didn't clean it off enough either .... MUPPET ! .. Lube was applied after every clean/ride.

I think @steve_sordy's favourite hobbie is tooth analysis .. and I'm sure @Gary can tell me bluntly where I went wrong

 

[GrahamPaul]

Lol I’m just picturing customs now. Suitcase full of chainrings, mucky nuts and vegemite.
Should go down well

I took my horse to Holland in the mid-90's. He hated Dutch food (no joke!). I used to fly back to Britain alternate Fridays, returning on Monday with my hand luggage containing 10kg of Super Barley. Used to get some very odd looks at Heathrow security when I explained that it was my breakfast cereal. (Although they moved like they'd been electrocuted the one time when I had a dressage whip and my spurs in the bag as well - told 'em I was off to a sex club in Amsterdam! )

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I'm guessing that's about 600ish km's on that, with the chain being about 200km's ish old when it was installed.

It's been a while since I've seen shark fin teeth... from just 600ish kayz, ouch!

Anyway, excuse the photo quality... LE ring and bolts/nuts .. top two are the outside, bottom two are the inside - now looking less than pristine...

Top two and bottom two makes FOUR pics, Zimmy.
So what do you do?... you attach three pics!

Anyway, here's your missing photo... studio cleaned it up for free...

 

[Zimmerframe]

Top two and bottom two makes FOUR pics, Zimmy.
So what do you do?... you attach three pics!

I get the "no clarity" award of the day there .... The two top and two bottom, referred to the 4 bolts inside the ring in the first photo ... it's either that or I was doing a special 25% off on photo's.....
My poor ring .... I wonder how @wepn is getting on with his Ti version ?

Not much look getting a steel praxis for the next few weeks. 10th Jan earliest for the UK distributor. French distributor says " ..........nada ......". Praxis US say "our contact system not working properly" .. and our "Chat is off-line" an "Leave us a message and we won't get back to you". All the other steel rings seem to be none narrow/wide ... Humbug !

 

[Gary]

did you call Upgrade?

 

[Gary]

Takly talky > typy typy