Another boring tyre question .. Kenevo .. best for natural trails with endless wet rock and roots ?

[Zimmerframe]

Despite all the bad press .. I found the Stock Butchers were actually pretty good !

Until the endless wet came ..

Now I'm pretty convinced that they're manufactured by Hutchinson as they feel just like my old Hutchinson Teflon's from earlier this year.

Previous experience before this bike was with DHF/DHRII in 27.5+ 2.8 (yes .. not @Gary s favourites - because they're not 26" and they're plus sized - which Gary says is reserved for Benny Hill and they're 2.8 which is also a no no ..

I ran these on a hardtail with crap front forks and in fairness they were super grippy and made up for the crap/none suspension.

I know no tyre can be magic .. But even something like an Ikon had 1000 more wet rock/root grip than the butchers or hutchinsons.

So today's boring question .. what to get ? AND what size ?? The new Kenevo has 2.6 ? Do I buck the volume/width trend and drop down ? Except by accident, I'm not doing 4m drops and then I normally land before the tyres.

 

[CjP]

I can say my 2.6 dhr was superb in the wet. Much better than the butchers. That’s all the experience I’ve had.
Assagai 2.5 front also.

?

 

[Zimmerframe]

You darn dry condition Aussie riders !

The Assagai has some very favourable reviews .. supposedly designed to "cut through dust and loam" .. but be good in the mud .. Though the general consensus seems to be that they're more "dry" orientated.

Leaving myself semi-comatosed from the experience, I've read through the many tyre threads and not ended up with any conclusions ..

Th e-wilds have had consistently positive reports.. My own experiences with DHR/DHFII are good, so at the moment they're probably top of the list, but I don't want to just stick my head in the sand and go with that if there are better options.

I don't mind sliding about .. it's quite fun .. but when the front and back are constantly letting go it gets a bit tyresome...

Obviously wet roots and rock are naturally slippy .. but some tyres are better at dealing with this than others .. but which ??!? And even then with the DHR/DHF for instance, there's about 38,000 different versions .. presumably with different compounds ..

 

[khorn]

I have a shitload of wet roots here locally and I’m running a 29” 2.6 DHF EXO at the front and it’s ok but not wow grippy on the wet roots. Front end is sliding around quite a bit with a few near misses recently. I would by no means call a DHF the perfect wet root tire.

Karsten

 

[Zimmerframe]

I have a shitload of wet roots here locally and I’m running a 29” 2.6 DHF EXO at the front and it’s ok but not wow grippy on the wet roots. Front end is sliding around quite a bit with a few near misses recently. I would by no means call a DHF the perfect wet root tire.

Karsten

Thanks Karsten. It might be I'm searching for the impossible, but it seems prudent to at least confirm that first

 

[Rusty]

Stop your bitching - suck it up cupcake ...... buy some Eddy Currents

 

[CjP]

I think you are asking for the impossible but these with Cush cores and the right pressures were way better than the butchers in the wet. Dry was better too but in the wet it was night and day.
I’m currently trying butcher black diamond 2.8 rear on 45mm rims at about 18psi and eliminators rear black diamond 2.6 on a 45mm rim with 15psi. Both with cushcores and no tire roll but it is very dry atm here. Would of loved to try them in the wet.
Good thing about Melbourne is we get 4 seasons in one day all year round so I’ll let you know how it goes.

I’d like to try the ewilds for comparison but you can’t go wrong with assagai front and dhr rear.

 

[khorn]

I think Christian hit the head on the nail, there is no such perfect tire for wet roots specifically. The usual well known grippy tires in the most soft compound combined with a lower tire pressure is properly the best option if dealing with wet roots. The most important factor I guess is rider skills in how you attack the particular root and the ability to predict when one or both wheels will start sliding. When I'm riding wet roots i'm very focused on the terrain and if my tires are able to regain grip when slided off the root.


Karsten

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'm afraid that "rider skill" is a bit of an oxymoron for me..

The eddy currants sound tasty.. I'm quite hungry now.. so are they your wet slimy best options ?

Ran lower pressure on the butcher's yesterday, but they still let go on every root and rock. They were great everywhere else. If you're just going from wet root to wet root and there are no other options, eventually you loose vertical hold, no matter how much momentum you bring in to carry you through.

Did someone say @Christian hit a nail on the head ? Is his hand eye coordination improving ? You know he drinks beer with a straw because otherwise he misses his mouth ?

 

[ottoshape]

I think Christian hit the head on the nail, there is no such perfect tire for wet roots specifically. The usual well known grippy tires in the most soft compound combined with a lower tire pressure is properly the best option if dealing with wet roots.

Agree 1000%... We get quite a bit of wet at various times of the year and lower pressure is the best place to start. When it gets slick here I run 17psi front, 21psi rear. My front tire is a 2.8 and rear is 2.6...

 

[CjP]

Did someone say @Christian hit a nail on the head ? Is his hand eye coordination improving ? You know he drinks beer with a straw because otherwise he misses his mouth ?

Well I am a builder so I can do that blindfold with both hands tied behind my back.
That’s both nailing a hammer while drinking a beer! Hence the need for the straw!

 

[Zimmerframe]

nailing a hammer

I'm always a fan of helping improve people's efficiencies.. for you, I'm proposing a huge increase in production if you change your technique and try hammering the nail instead. Also, nails are cheaper than hammers, so your costs will drop enormously..

Anyway, you're a speed and adrenalin junkie, surely you use a paslode ?

 

[Rusty]

I'm afraid that "rider skill" is a bit of an oxymoron for me..

I really try not to use moron in a sentence when discussing you mon amie ... safer with village bouffon
We do consider this forum a village don't we?

 

[CjP]

I'm always a fan of helping improve people's efficiencies.. for you, I'm proposing a huge increase in production if you change your technique and try hammering the nail instead. Also, nails are cheaper than hammers, so your costs will drop enormously..

Anyway, you're a speed and adrenalin junkie, surely you use a paslode ?

Haha no I’m really that good. I can nail a hammer....

I done my apprenticeship with an old school air compressor paslode nail gun with no guard and a hair trigger.
Now that was an Adrenalin rush.

 

[outerlimits]

The reason the Butchers suck on wet root and rock is the big void of tread area between the centre and cornering knobs.

I’m going to give you the intel on my favourite tyre. It’s looks are quite deceiving but it excels in loose over hard, mud, wet roots and rocks. It will do in deep loam and deep dry sand. I have pedaled this hybrid monster up a super slippery super steep wet clay fire road in 100% turbo full send mode. Now looking at it, you would think, NO Way the tread is too tight. But I can a tell you it works where even the popular fan boi based Minions have failed. It is a complete surprise package, and it is the Specialized Eliminator. The tread does not match what this tyre can do ?

Here is one beside a dirty Butcher

 

[wepn]

I can say my 2.6 dhr was superb in the wet. Much better than the butchers. That’s all the experience I’ve had.
Assagai 2.5 front also.

?

I agree kind of 2.6 dhf & Assegai 2.5 EXO rear (DH rear next). Bike hasn't seen a drop of rain yet.

 

[steve_sordy]

I bought my bike in Jan this year. The stock tyres were 29x2.6 Maxxis Rekon EXO Maxx Terra TR, 3C front (890gm) and 1C rear (806gm). But the front slid out when cornering and the rear spun out when climbing out of holes.

I tried to find a same size tyre in Continental Trail King with the black chilli compound, because that had been my do it all tyre for my previous non-"e" bikes. But I failed. So I did my research and in the end went for a tyre that I already knew was very good. Maxxis High Roller II. I couldn't get 2.6" but I was happy to go with 2.5", after all its only 50 thousandths of an inch either side! According to Maxxis, the High Roller can be used in a slightly wider set of trail conditions than the Minion.

I tried to get 3C front and 2C rear (not even sure there is such a thing), but again I failed to find what I was looking for, in the 2C category.
This is what I got, for both front and rear and it turned out to be a good choice. I would buy again without a doubt.

Maxxis High Roller II 3C WT Maxx Terra EXO TR, 1016gm.

Brilliant! I have to be cornering faster than my skill level and courage normally allow for me to slide out at the front. The rear tyre exposes my need for more climbing skill as I can no longer blame the tyre!

I run them tubeless and with 17psi front and 20psi rear. I weigh 14.5 stone in my riding kit (92kg, 203lbs).

 

[Zimmerframe]

no I’m really that good. I can nail a hammer....

I think we need to change your forum name to "Nailer" ?

Specialized Eliminator.

Ok.. they're interesting, a semi chevroned block pattern which gives some infill.. and a mix of some smaller blocks and more cuts in the bigger blocks....

Agreed, psi could have been lower yesterday. Was at 20:21. The dhr dhfs felt best about 1.2bar , so 17 ish. Lower and I was rimming.

 

[stiv674]

I bought my bike in Jan this year. The stock tyres were 29x2.6 Maxxis Rekon EXO Maxx Terra TR, 3C front (890gm) and 1C rear (806gm). But the front slid out when cornering and the rear spun out when climbing out of holes.

I tried to find a same size tyre in Continental Trail King with the black chilli compound, because that had been my do it all tyre for my previous non-"e" bikes. But I failed. So I did my research and in the end went for a tyre that I already knew was very good. Maxxis High Roller II. I couldn't get 2.6" but I was happy to go with 2.5", after all its only 50 thousandths of an inch either side! According to Maxxis, the High Roller can be used in a slightly wider set of trail conditions than the Minion.

I tried to get 3C front and 2C rear (not even sure there is such a thing), but again I failed to find what I was looking for, in the 2C category.
This is what I got, for both front and rear and it turned out to be a good choice. I would buy again without a doubt.

Maxxis High Roller II 3C WT Maxx Terra EXO TR, 1016gm.

Brilliant! I have to be cornering faster than my skill level and courage normally allow for me to slide out at the front. The rear tyre exposes my need for more climbing skill as I can no longer blame the tyre!

I run them tubeless and with 17psi front and 20psi rear. I weigh 14.5 stone in my riding kit (92kg, 203lbs).

I've been looking at these, amongst others, what are they like in really wet muddy conditions?

Are these the ones you have?

 

[wepn]

the endless wet

Bit off topic but still about Kenevo in the wet - Brose Alu S in the wet. Any suggestions on sealing the left side crankshaft bearing from water without opening the motor up & putting a proper rubber seal in? Maybe grease.

 

[CjP]

I have been throwing grease on both sides recently. Catches a heap of dust and hopefully repels water.
Should have done it from the start but I never really thought about it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

This was the internal decathlon document to deal with their water problem using grease.. doesn't say what type of grease though ?
What you using Nailer ? Something locally harvested from the scrotums of roo's ?

 

[CjP]

Lol I just bought this one as a do everything grease. Seems to stop shit going in the bearings. Like I said I should have done it a year ago after seeing all the damage people have done to their motors.
I personally have never had a problem with my motor, apart from the large amounts of over run.
The Kenevos just seem to work, like they’re the perfect bike!

 

[DrStupid]

We haven't had any good rain in months here in Kentucky, so I can't tell you about wet grip on anything. But on dry objects (rocks, roots, chickens) the assegai seems to out grip everything else I have tried.

 

[Gary]

I'm pretty convinced that they're manufactured by Hutchinson

They're manufactured by CST

now go chase a bunch of scantily clad girls round your local park in a non PC manner to a silly sped up soundtrack.

I really don't understand how folk struggle so much choosing an apropriate tyre for the conditions they ride and their skill level/speed

Mud tyre choice isn't rocket science FFS.
knob spacing has to be wide enough for the tyre to clear or it won't work. The slower a rider you are the wider you'll need the spacing to be for it to clear.
knob height has to be an apropriate height to work in your conditions. ie. wet grass you can happliy run full spikes and rail everything in full confidence, add in roots and rocks and not so much.
rubber compound is simply a compromise between rolling speed and grip. ie. go super soft if you need all the help you can get and don't mind the drag.
Knob shape is important. As is tyre profile.
work out what directional knobs, Bars and cupped or L shaped knobs actually do and how they work and it'll all make way more sense to you.
Certain manufacturers have actually been taking the piss for years with the shitty tread paternms they've been selling. (masked by soft compounds)
Casing. Go heavy duty casing if you want to run low pressures but retain sidewall support and don't mind the HUGE weight penalty and acceleration like you're riding wet concrete trait
and lastly... Volume. DON'T BE A CLOWN (Unless you REALLY want to be a clown obvz)

 

[brizi2003]

I've used High Roller IIs on my non-ebike previously and found them to be a good all round tyre once you get used to the gap between the centre and edge. I've found the standard Kenevo Butcher Grid 2.6 to be fine also, although I agree their not the best for really muddy, rooty terrain (is anything?). It's interesting that someone else also suggested the Specialized Eliminator because they have tread that bridges the centre/side gap - they are quite cheap so why not give them a go? Or perhaps the Specialized Hillbilly - which is supposed to better than the Butcher Grid for muddy conditions. I tend to run my tyres at 20-25psi front and 25-30psi rear as I've had rim damage from rock impacts during the summer - but I might lower the pressure for the winter - due to slower speeds. My sons Trek LT7 came with Bontrager XR4 Team Issue 2.8" and they are really controllable when they slide and seem better over wet roots too but they are very expensive. I'm currently looking for replacement tyres myself and can't make my mind up - might try the Specialized Eliminators

 

[stiv674]

I really don't understand how folk struggle so much choosing an apropriate tyre for the conditions they ride and their skill level/speed

Mud tyre choice isn't rocket science FFS.

Maybe because some people, myself included, don't have any experience of choosing suitable tyres as this is new to them, and just want some advice...

 

[khorn]

They're manufactured by CST

now go chase a bunch of scantily clad girls round your local park in a non PC manner to a silly sped up soundtrack.

I really don't understand how folk struggle so much choosing an apropriate tyre for the conditions they ride and their skill level/speed

Mud tyre choice isn't rocket science FFS.
knob spacing has to be wide enough for the tyre to clear or it won't work. The slower a rider you are the wider you'll need the spacing to be for it to clear.
knob height has to be an apropriate height to work in your conditions. ie. wet grass you can happliy run full spikes and rail everything in full confidence, add in roots and rocks and not so much.
rubber compound is simply a compromise between rolling speed and grip. ie. go super soft if you need all the help you can get and don't mind the drag.
Knob shape is important. As is tyre profile.
work out what directional knobs, Bars and cupped or L shaped knobs actually do and how they work and it'll all make way more sense to you.
Certain manufacturers have actually been taking the piss for years with the shitty tread paternms they've been selling. (masked by soft compounds)
Casing. Go heavy duty casing if you want to run low pressures but retain sidewall support and don't mind the HUGE weight penalty and acceleration like you're riding wet concrete trait
and lastly... Volume. DON'T BE A CLOWN (Unless you REALLY want to be a clown obvz)

So nice to see that the normal Gary is back on track again........FFS ????

Karsten

 

[DrStupid]

I'm riding on these right now. Not soaked but damp with due. The assegai is not a panacea for your trouble but it works admirably well. Of course I'm riding super slow crawling over rocks like a wannabe trials guy. The nice thing about being terrible at everything is that there's always Room for improvement

 

[Zimmerframe]

apropriate tyre for the conditions they ride and their skill level/speed

They only come on infants bikes.

knob height

Is dictated by what the scantily clad has revealed... This can result in both lower and higher knob height.

L shaped knobs

Are a doctor's visit.