Levo Gen 2 An Old Git's Thoughts - Part 2 - Baby Steps & How should I spend my money next ?

EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
Given the government(s) desire to keep me caged up and unable to go out more than 1 km from home, I thought I'd take the opportunity to bore everyone with some updates on my e-MTB journey.

Lets start with the closing credits. I am in a bi-mance with my 2020 Turbo Levo , the attraction and need to spend more time together is reminescent of teenage love attraction ( and yes I can remember -- just ). What's a bi-mance you ask ? It's like a bro-mance but a lot more serious.

Wheels and Upgrades and Stuff

I'm still in love with a 2020 TL Comp called " Levo". The relationship is blossoming and apart from my abusive behaviour throwing her at rocks and the such like I think we are getting on fine. WE have now done 5 months and c. 1800km together so going strong, relations and friends think it may be serious.

I'm really glad that I didn't follow my natural instincts and upgrade everything as soon as I knew what the parts were called. It is increasingly clear that only as I approach 2000km am I really getting to start to understand and appreciate the nature of mtb, e-mtb and the 2020 TL Comp in particular. My style is still poor but gradually, slowly I'm beginning to get my arse in gear and understand how the bike works and what I have to do to try and give "Levo" the beginnings of a good time.

I'm going to break my learning and next 'upgrade' steps down into a few areas as it would be logical (if impractical due 'kin lockdown) to do them in a preferred order.

Bike Size & Cockpit

I now know I should have spent more time on this before buying, but frankly, it would have been a waste of time as I've needed to learn more about seating position and size based upon up and downhill rides rather than theory.

I 'm 1.79cm tall, c. 82 kgs in weight (despite promises to get back to 75) and bought a Medium frame based upon LBS advice that took all of 0.5 seconds of looking at me.

Overall I've found the saddle comfortable, changed to Ergon GA3 grips and bought wider pedals (I've got very wide feet), adjusted lever positions and angles (and I'm now very happy with them). The only issues are: -

- I still have wrist pain in my right wrist (usually on road stretches) although it is better with latest grips and
- I feel that I'm a little far forward in my seating position

This week it dawned on me. I need to stop tinkering and go to a bike shop with a proper seating / set-up analysis capability and get myself assessed properly. Unlike 5 months ago I should now be able to give the bike shop some feedback. It would be so easy to keep tinkering: - carbon bars, different saddle, higher stem, different grips but I need to stop, Re-assess and get some expert input.

It is going to have to wait due to lockdown but my dreams of getting a S-works and building it from scratch will just have to wait as I have a long way to go in understanding my own body and how it interfaces with a TL first.

The only change I will make here is to get an AXS Reverb dropper post. I know the OE isn't as smooth as it was but as I can't maintain it ( its like getting into Fort Knox) than I shall replace it. I am constantly changing the seat height - so I'm going to try the AXS Reverb in 150mm assuming it is an easy replace.

Moving & Stopping

The drivetrain , wheels, tyres and brakes.

This is a conundrum for me. I know that all components are well up to the demands that I put them but the urge is still there to upgrade.

The Stopping Bit:- I've got to really like the Guide RE brakes ( shock, horror!). I replaced the pads with Galfer replacements and bled them I now think they are really good. I love the progressive feel and consistency of pressure time after time -- I do occasionally feel I could do with a little more stopping power going downhill and I suspect a touch of brake fade. the RSC would be my choice if I were to replace but I think I'll stick and learn more with new rotors and organic pads rather than change everything. The 'squealing ' others complain of is still occasionally present but regular use of brake cleaner does for me.

The Going Bit:- mmhh .... I like the 29 x 2.6 Butchers on the dry rocky stuff. I need to replace the rear tyre and I could try some others but now I've learnt how to ride a little better the 'washing-out' of the front end has all but disappeared. In other words previously a case of poor workman blaming his tools . I do however want a second set of wheels for some wet weather mud & slush tyres which I have already purchased. That means a second set of wheels (don't go there, I'm too lazy to change every week ) and the obvious choice would be to just duplicate the set-up with another set of OE wheels etc .. BUT I can't help think why not upgrade the drivetrain as well and redo the lot? It is very tempting to upgrade the whole set up to the latest and greatest from SRAM or Shimano in the next 200km when I will have to change chain and cassette in any case.

The wobbly and cushiony bitz ( bike not me)

I guess nowhere is it more obvious that I have L-(earner ) plates up than when it comes to the softer bits and the interaction between suspension, tyres and terra firma.

- Initially I had my tubeless tyres religiously pumped up to 1.7+/1.8+ bar plus. It's taken me a long time of adjusting but I now feel a lot more stable at 1.4/1.5 -- I know the tyres are less fidgety on the off road rock trails and the front tyre is noticeably more forgiving when I get it wrong on a steep and loose corner . I also feel more in control on bends and curves and when it gets 'loose'.

- In the same manner it took me a long time to realise I needed slow the rebound on my front forks .. the standard settings were all too harsh / fast for my capabilities in hindsight and I only got that feeling right with sag et al about a month ago.

- I'm still trying to get the rebound on the rear shocks 'right', once I got the front right / slower I realised that I was being thrown forward on small bumps and jumps so rear rebound needed to be slower I now believe . I think I've got the balance about right now but it's going to take me several weeks in lockdown to know that and satisfy my own curiosity.

- Conclusion has to be that much as I'd like the latest and greatest suspension set-up then I think I should keep taking baby steps and improving my understanding / doing the maintenance and just upgrade the existing hardware.

So my need to burn money unnecessarily will be limited to
:- Front Forks - Lyric 2021 Spring and Damper Upgrades and

: Rear Shock Absorber - Meg Neg Upgrade kit

So disappointing .. but just seems like the right thing to do!

In Summary :-

1) I need to learn a lot more before I ask folks to help specify my own ground-up S-Works
2) I need a size and position sanity check with a LBS with all the gear -- has to wait until post-lockdown.
3) AXS Reverb seems just the ticket for a rider like me who constantly adjusts his position
4) Wheels & Drivetrain - A choice -- another set of similar wheels to mount winter kit with new cassettes / chains OR
New wheels , new drivetrain -- if so which one, I think I should stay for the moment? Opinions welcome.
5) Existing Suspension -- 2021 and model upgrades only. Keep the same basic hardware.

Considered action, for me , is very strange behaviour , I fundamentally believe the best tools make better workers and I prefer journeying as much as arriving.

I'm interested in what others think, although with the exception of wheels and drivetrain I think my mind is made up . What would you do if cash wasnt an issue ?
 
Last edited:

Vilt

Active member
Feb 13, 2019
186
117
Berg en Terblijt, The Netherlands
Wow, quite a read.

I can tell you this:

1) The AXS is a good post and installing it is done in about 20 minutes, most of the time you'll spend de-installing the old seatpost.

2) If you are too close to your handlebar, at 1m79... I would say you could've used an L size frame. (But I haven't even seen you... haha) If you really are though, there are stem options to move the handlebar a bit further away. It will affect how the bike handles though.

A cheap possible solution for hand fatigue would be to try another handlebar. Specifically one with a greater backsweep - you can try the SQLab ones at 12 and 16 degrees. I love mine, even at 12 degrees it makes for a much more comfortable ride than the specialized stock handlebar.


3) Drivetrain... tough call. I am absolutely in love with my AXS X01. But it isn't cheap. It shifts so darn smooth though, you can't imagine how smooth until you've tried it. (Plus - AXS Reverb + AXS X01... you'd be _the man!_.)
 
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Kave

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2018
242
151
Sweden
What will the axs dropper give you that you dont have? Anther thing to keep charged?
Its main advantage is easy install and replacement with non dropper on light xc bikes.
 
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Konanige

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
422
336
Mendips
As the AXS is still just a Reverb but with no wires I wouldnt bother myself. If you are new to MTB I would suggest that the hand pain is probably due to a lack of core strength, which you can improve with exercise and practising putting your weight through your heels when your riding. Drivetrain is personal, it'll wear out just as quick if it's top tier so just depends whether you want to want to waste money or not.
 
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urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
995
Tasmania
I'm not into upgrading myself - I like to get the most out of everything I have. Suspension and tyre pressures, drivetrain etc. I did upgrade the rear rotor from 180 to 203. I did swap out the chain ring for gearing to suit me. Other than that - it's all fine tuning and maintenance and learning to ride. It's a cliche but a good rider is a good rider despite the bike. I do believe in well maintained bikes though.

One thing I've been doing is finding the average spoke tensions for each side of each wheel, then going over each wheel averaging all the spokes, and lastly truing. This makes my wheels as strong as they can be too.
 

EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
Thanks everyone for your replies and taking time to contribute . Ill try and deal with them in the same order as I tried to address them originally.
@warpdwhim @Vilt I agree I need to find out a lot more , and I need to take some of the haphazardness out of my updating on a trial - and -error basis . There is a Retul studio at a LBS about 30km from me so immediately post-lockdown I'll be in for an appointment. @Konanige If its my core strength as Im relatively ( a truism) fit then I'm probably boogered as I'm trying to improve my fitness all the time -- there does come an age when it gets difficult! Nothing for it then Im going to have to give up and take up sofa - surfing (not!)

@Kave @Konanige . There are 2 things driving my decision to to an Axs Reverb :-
1) The need to take the OE dropper in to have simple, regular mechanical cleaning and maintenance work done "under warranty". Its impossible to access and if it is designed to be a 'sealed unit' then their manuals should not suggest such frequent maintenance. HoS. Don't get me wrong I want to support my LBS but not have to take TL in every month just to have the dropper post 'maintained'.
2) Reviews on here and on t'internet suggest that the wireless set up is quick and very flexible using 'feathering' on the post. Im changing anyway so matching my needs best seems the right way to go.

@urastus Im loving the maintenance element of the whole experience as well. My reasons for doing are very different in that I haven't really needed to do anything mechanical for 40 years and Im just enjoying it again. I will additionally get my LBS to review what I have done -- double check as id prefer that to losing a wheel / fork/ etc
I think we agree in that I am prioritising 'learning' over my natural inclination just to get the latest and greatest. Keeping my urges in check is not an easy task so I had better learn fast! See what you've done? :devilish:Now I need a spoke tension measurer (google here I come ) and wheel truing equipment -- Im sure I should add a new chain ring to the list too ! ;)

@Rosemount Excellent! More bike porn ! There goes another another evening or 5 accounted for in this lockdown.:)
 
Last edited:

Konanige

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
422
336
Mendips
I'm not sure why you are taking your seatpost in for regular warranty maintenance, all it should need is a wipe down after every ride and dribble a bit of lube on the seal, there should be absolutely no need to take it out of the bike unless you are changing the cable.
 

urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
995
Tasmania
@urastus Im loving the maintenance element of the whole experience as well. My reasons for doing are very different in that I haven't really needed to do anything mechanical for 40 years and Im just enjoying it again. I will additionally get my LBS to review what I have done -- double check as id prefer that to losing a wheel / fork/ etc
I think we agree in that I am prioritising 'learning' over my natural inclination just to get the latest and greatest. Keeping my urges in check is not an easy task so I had better learn fast! See what you've done? :devilish:Now I need a spoke tension measurer (google here I come ) and wheel truing equipment -- Im sure I should add a new chain ring to the list too ! ;)
Just a spoke tension gauge and a spoke key / spanner thing. I (like many others I imagine) just use a zip tie on the fork or rear triangle somewhere to see the buckle. I mark out the buckled area with a permanent marker on the tyre. Then I use the gauge to check the tension of those spokes - I usually find at least one that is out. I have the average tension for each side of each wheel recorded, so when truing I'm aiming to get the effected spokes back in that range. I can generally straighten a wheel with all the spokes close to their standard tension. So the gauge is great for initial uniform tensioning, but it is also good for truing and keeping the wheel strong. Also, after getting the average tensions for each side of each wheel (rotor side front should be higher, cluster side rear should be higher), I look at the wheels for center in the bike frame. If the wheel is a mm or so to one side or the other, I can true the wheel back to centre by adding some tension, or subtracting some tension one side or the other. Or if it needs truing, I can true it to one side to get it centred. Most wheels are out of centre to some small degree.
 
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EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
all it should need is a wipe down after every ride and dribble a bit of lube on the seal, there should be absolutely no need to take it out of the bike unless you are changing the cable.
I don't buy that, as that is exactly what I have been doing. Cllearly the mechanism has got worse over a very short period of time and is now sticking down. Other brands seem to recommend removing to maintain (so Google tells me ). Im obviously using lubricating as opposed to penetrating oil and seriously question whether its helping. Dust and grime is a lot better at getting in there imho ( Im not an engineer).
 

EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
Seriously? Retul bike fitting for an E mountain bike? :oops:
C'mon, behave eh?

Never behaved in my life and too old to start now.
OK, I'll bite.
Why cant Retul fitting help someone who doesn't even know whether they are on the right size MTB and has a few (possibly minor ) issues with their seating position and more importantly how otherwise should I address those issues without blindly changeing parts, not knowing where to start and where the real problem may still be the size of the bike ?
 

urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
995
Tasmania
Never behaved in my life and too old to start now.
OK, I'll bite.
Why cant Retul fitting help someone who doesn't even know whether they are on the right size MTB and has a few (possibly minor ) issues with their seating position and more importantly how otherwise should I address those issues without blindly changeing parts, not knowing where to start and where the real problem may still be the size of the bike ?
it sounds like you might need some time with a someone who is knowledgeable with mtb and setup. It looks like that retul system is very dependant on such a person and might be more relatable to competition eg xc or road. If your local retul station has an awesome person who knows their stuff it could be good. The thing with mtb is the attack position, descending and climbing - where I am that is the the majority of time spent on a bike. In that respect the retul system looks quite basic - spinning on flat ground.
 

Dirk74

Active member
Jun 6, 2020
99
55
Germany
best invest (bang for buck): 2021 debon air shaft (150mm or 160mm, as you like)

for the drivetrain my recommendation is the Sunrace CSM8 11-46 (full steel, good shifting, more bandwith, good stepping, not expensive)
 
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Rosemount

E*POWAH Elite
May 23, 2020
822
1,748
Qld Australia
And they'd be wrong

Yes ...
But ,wrong bike or wrong application ?
I size my bike to fit me standing up and descending . But I see people trying to prioritise the size of their bikes to make them comfortable to pedal sitting down . Different strokes for different folks ...
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,703
the internet
But ,wrong bike or wrong application ?
Both

Retul is all about finding the most efficient, comfortable position to allow roadies to gain speed/time/duration and push themselves hard without injury
An E mountainbike is none of those things. Or... if it is.. you wasted a wedge of cash buying the wrong bike
I size my bike to fit me standing up and descending . But I see people trying to prioritise the size of their bikes to make them comfortable to pedal sitting down . Different strokes for different folks ...
You do realise you can set a mountainbike up well for BOTH of those things?
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,703
the internet

I think a lot of folks here size their bikes to fit like road bikes .
I didn't actually watch that video when replying earlier. it's hilarious.
his set-up is horrendous
and WTF is the guy wearing ? Roadie shades indoors. On a trainer. :ROFLMAO: :LOL: :cool:

A paid bike fit on an mtb makes sense if you are going for UCI or Olympic selection in XC or top level endurance mtb events. otherwise no.
 

Rosemount

E*POWAH Elite
May 23, 2020
822
1,748
Qld Australia
Both

Retul is all about finding the most efficient, comfortable position to allow roadies to gain speed/time/duration and push themselves hard without injury
An E mountainbike is none of those things. Or... if it is.. you wasted a wedge of cash buying the wrong bike

You do realise you can set a mountainbike up well for BOTH of those things?

Compromises as always .
Personally . Tune it for down - lose some up capability . Tune it for up - compromise the down .


Plenty of 60 odd year old men here who are returning to cycling after 40 - 50 years , mainly ride on gravel roads or green trails who could benefit from a bike fit to avoid RSI .

You seem to get stuck thinking you are on an MTB racer / dirt jumper / street scape rider focused forum . When it fact its populated by old retired blokes who don`t race , don`t dirt jump and only put 20 odd pounds in their tyres .

 
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#lazy

E*POWAH BOSS
Oct 1, 2019
1,408
1,537
Surrey
I agree with the retul Mtb fit nonsense , I change my seat height a lot for the different conditions so most of their numbers wouldn’t make a difference plus as soon as you turn the motor on pedal efficiency goes out the window !
 

EME

MUPPET
Aug 14, 2020
262
230
Zug
Sorry for late response, Ive been busier than Id like doing w*** stuff.

[QUOTE}[quote}EME said:
@Gary
A newbie to MTB- using RETUL[/QUOTE]
Cindy is a mug.
Cindy of course doesn't actually exist.[/quote}

.. says the faceless forum critic with no Bio. Any positive helpful suggestion that isn't rude ?

@Dirk74 Thanks for the Sunrise suggestion , genuinely looks like the ticket, and a blast-from-my 3-speed past ie Sturmey Archer I believe, didn't realise they still were around.
 

Spruce

New Member
Sep 11, 2020
6
5
Wales
Sorry for late response, Ive been busier than Id like doing w*** stuff.

[QUOTE}[quote}EME said:
@Gary
A newbie to MTB- using RETUL
Cindy is a mug.
Cindy of course doesn't actually exist.[/quote}

.. says the faceless forum critic with no Bio. Any positive helpful suggestion that isn't rude ?

@Dirk74 Thanks for the Sunrise suggestion , genuinely looks like the ticket, and a blast-from-my 3-speed past ie Sturmey Archer I believe, didn't realise they still were around.
[/QUOTE]

Have you legs stretched, much more useful in the long run. ?.
 

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