A Crazy Situation (In Need of Advice)

[Mteam]

Yes there are other brands that I'm aware of that use the Shimano EP8 motor here. I think Commencal uses it, Husqvarna and maybe some other ones. I've called some Shimano approved dealers and no one has any. When I google the model #'s of the batteries, I literally get no results in Canada. I've gone through pages and pages and everything is international. Might just be a stock issue? Companies are still trying to play catch-up? I still have my browser open and I'm scrolling to find something.

Shimano Battery BT-E8036 Downtube Integrated 630Wh

Designed specifically for Shimano's Steps system, the BT-E8036 battery integrates smoothly into the down tube and features 630Wh capacity.

www.theinsideline.ca

Any good?

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Finally found one...

Shimano Battery BT-E8036 Downtube Integrated 630Wh

SHIMANO STEPS - Integrated Type Battery for Down Tube - 630 Wh

www.theinsideline.ca

Now do I want to take the plunge? Thing is this isn't the battery that comes with the bike. Thats the bt-e8035L. Its a smaller capacity one at 504Wh. The one in the above website supposedly is the exact same size and everything, just a larger capacity of 630Wh.

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Shimano Battery BT-E8036 Downtube Integrated 630Wh

Designed specifically for Shimano's Steps system, the BT-E8036 battery integrates smoothly into the down tube and features 630Wh capacity.

www.theinsideline.ca

Any good?

That's so funny. We found it at the same time lol. Must be a sign...

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Shimano Battery BT-E8036 Downtube Integrated 630Wh

Designed specifically for Shimano's Steps system, the BT-E8036 battery integrates smoothly into the down tube and features 630Wh capacity.

www.theinsideline.ca

Any good?

Just placed the order. Says being shipped by expedited parcel. Should arrive at my door in 5 working days or so. I hope this works.

 

[Mteam]

Just placed the order. Says being shipped by expedited parcel. Should arrive at my door in 5 working days or so. I hope this works.

If it physically fits,it should work

 

[Wooders]

I don't know the details for Canada, but ultimately I imagine any sales tax goes to the government - UPS are just the intermediary taking payment on the government's behalf. In the UK that customs charge has to be paid before the item is released from the customs clearance centre (i.e. port usually), so the courier pays that on your behalf to get the item out of customs and into their depot and then charges you prior to delivering it from the depot to your address.

Given all of that, I can see why UPS can't/won't refund it; they have no paperwork they can file to reclaim that money from whichever bit of the government deals with that (HMRC in the UK).

Because you've personally paid that sales tax to the government, if you do end up returning it I think you'd need to speak to the appropriate department to get the money back. I imagine you will need to get Canyon to give you some paperwork confirming the return and the value of the returned item, then submit that with the original paperwork for the payment you made (normally UPS would give you paperwork confirming the customs fee you paid) and then I'd imagine it can all be refunded out by the government dept. directly.

Whilst I can understand Canyon not being able to refund that either, I'd absolutely expect them to know all of that and to be able to advise you. It's terrible customer service to leave you high and dry like this. That's certainly taken them off the list of brands I'd buy from.

 

[onehundredthidiot]

Guy I used to know has the battery you want but in Scotland don't know if they are shippable (should be 20% off this price for UK taxes then +Canadian taxes).

Shimano STEPS BT-E8035-L STEPS battery 504 Wh, down tube integrated mount, long fit, black £612.99

Buy Shimano STEPS BT-E8035-L STEPS battery 504 Wh, down tube integrated mount, long fit, black today for £612.99 at Singletrack Bikes

www.singletrackbikes.co.uk

 

[E-MAD MALC]

Just placed the order. Says being shipped by expedited parcel. Should arrive at my door in 5 working days or so. I hope this works.

Good company to do business with i get my xt stuff from them

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

I don't know the details for Canada, but ultimately I imagine any sales tax goes to the government - UPS are just the intermediary taking payment on the government's behalf. In the UK that customs charge has to be paid before the item is released from the customs clearance centre (i.e. port usually), so the courier pays that on your behalf to get the item out of customs and into their depot and then charges you prior to delivering it from the depot to your address.

Given all of that, I can see why UPS can't/won't refund it; they have no paperwork they can file to reclaim that money from whichever bit of the government deals with that (HMRC in the UK).

Because you've personally paid that sales tax to the government, if you do end up returning it I think you'd need to speak to the appropriate department to get the money back. I imagine you will need to get Canyon to give you some paperwork confirming the return and the value of the returned item, then submit that with the original paperwork for the payment you made (normally UPS would give you paperwork confirming the customs fee you paid) and then I'd imagine it can all be refunded out by the government dept. directly.

Whilst I can understand Canyon not being able to refund that either, I'd absolutely expect them to know all of that and to be able to advise you. It's terrible customer service to leave you high and dry like this. That's certainly taken them off the list of brands I'd buy from.

I think you're absolutely right. The duties and taxes should and would go to the government and not UPS. But for Canyon and UPS either not willing to help or clearly giving me the wrong info/help, is not acceptable. If they are in the business, they should know the ins and outs, no? I think this will be the last time buying anything from the brand depending on the response, if any, I get. It's unfortunate, you get alot of bike for the money and the quality seems way up there. Also, the return process seems like its going to be a nightmare as well.

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Guy I used to know has the battery you want but in Scotland don't know if they are shippable (should be 20% off this price for UK taxes then +Canadian taxes).

Shimano STEPS BT-E8035-L STEPS battery 504 Wh, down tube integrated mount, long fit, black £612.99

Buy Shimano STEPS BT-E8035-L STEPS battery 504 Wh, down tube integrated mount, long fit, black today for £612.99 at Singletrack Bikes

www.singletrackbikes.co.uk

I tried checking out with them and only the U.K. is listed as an option for shipping. Found a battery in my country and should be in next week I'm hoping. See what happens.

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Good company to do business with i get my xt stuff from them

Awesome! That's good to know.

 

[PennywiseTheDancingClown]

never buying a canyon.. thanks for the warning.

 

[Silver fox]

Well here’s one. There are many outlets in the U.S. called “Ship It to Us” or similar. You open an account with the one nearest you ( they‘re usually close to the border), and order the part that you need using their address. When they receive it, they contact you and you cross the border and pick it up. They do charge a very modest handling charge. This is legal and above board. You will have to pay pst and gst at the border. So yes, you do have to pay for the battery and taxes, but it sounds like you would still be getting a great deal overall. I have used this service a few times ordering material from the U.S. that do not ship to Canada. Check with them to make sure that they will accept goods from overseas, but I see no reason why they will not.

 

[Dave_B]

The 640 battery is physically larger than the 504, are you 100% sure it will fit? I compared the two batteries when they first came out as I wanted to put one in the Heckler, but it is larger and would not fit.

 

[Dave_B]

This is the size difference.

Maybe things have changed since 2020 when I took this picture? I’ve not had a Shimano Ebike for quite some time now.

 

[Mteam]

This is the size difference.

Maybe things have changed since 2020 when I took this picture? I’ve not had a Shimano Ebike for quite some time now.

View attachment 104179

That's the none L version(ie the original 504wh battery) The L version of the 504wh battery is the same size as the 630wh battery

Shimano introduce three new e-bike batteries and new display unit - MBR

New 630Wh batteries to extend your range and a new computer display add to choice for Shimano STEPS ebike riders.

www.mbr.co.uk

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Well here’s one. There are many outlets in the U.S. called “Ship It to Us” or similar. You open an account with the one nearest you ( they‘re usually close to the border), and order the part that you need using their address. When they receive it, they contact you and you cross the border and pick it up. They do charge a very modest handling charge. This is legal and above board. You will have to pay pst and gst at the border. So yes, you do have to pay for the battery and taxes, but it sounds like you would still be getting a great deal overall. I have used this service a few times ordering material from the U.S. that do not ship to Canada. Check with them to make sure that they will accept goods from overseas, but I see no reason why they will not.

That's a great idea as well. I know my parents used to use a place called Blue Water Shipping Depot at the Blue Water Bridge that connects Sarnia Ontario to Port Huron in the U.S. Not sure why its called that though. Its more like brown murky water than blue water lol. Anyway, I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

This is the size difference.

Maybe things have changed since 2020 when I took this picture? I’ve not had a Shimano Ebike for quite some time now.

View attachment 104179

Whew, had me second guessing for a second till I read Mteam's post. There are supposedly 2 versions. The original 8035 and an 8035L which is a bit longer and which is the battery that the Torque ON uses. Just so happens that the 8036 is the exact same size (from what I've read). Added bonus is the wee bit more Wh's. Too bad there isn't a bigger Wh battery to choose from however I don't know if there are any non OEM versions, non Shimano branded ones out there that would work?

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

That's the none L version(ie the original 504wh battery) The L version of the 504wh battery is the same size as the 630wh battery

Shimano introduce three new e-bike batteries and new display unit - MBR

New 630Wh batteries to extend your range and a new computer display add to choice for Shimano STEPS ebike riders.

www.mbr.co.uk

Awesome, thanks for the link.

 

[B1rdie]

I have had the same problems, buying a canyon in France in 2018 and a cube in the UK last year. Had to buy new batterires for both bikes but had no prblem in finding sellers that would ship brand new batteries from europe to Brazil on ebay. I would rathet buy new batteries than try to get a refund from courier or customs…

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

I have had the same problems, buying a canyon in France in 2018 and a cube in the UK last year. Had to buy new batterires for both bikes but had no prblem in finding sellers that would ship brand new batteries from europe to Brazil on ebay. I would rathet buy new batteries than try to get a refund from courier or customs…

It would just be way easier and the least hassle, wouldn't it?

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Does anyone happen to know what size the 4 screws are that are used to attach the cover to the battery by chance? Turns out I am missing those too.

 

[Expidia]

Wow, what a story! Sorry you got involved in their scam (and it is a scam by Canyon). Yes, you could dispute the credit card charge and the bank instantly reverses it. Then the offending company has like 30-60 days to resolve the issue and if they ignore the banks request for their side of the story you get to keep the item for free!

But as another poster has said above Canyon already said to send it back and they will refund you except to the $1,500 in taxes and thats what their answer will be back to the bank plus I'm sure, they will make you eat the shipping back to them.

So your resolution of buying your own battery seems like your best alternative.

But I would at least copy this thread and send it into CN consumer affairs as Canyon is scamming people and as you discovered this is why they don't advertise any "new" Canyons. So they are skirting the rules of not selling Canyon in CN by ripping you off with no included battery. Some bike stores do the same thing. They beat the fair trade locked in MSRP which prevents the bike stores to advertise cheaper than MSRP unless the manufacturer lowers their price for a short time special. So the bike stores sell new bikes below MSRP on sites like Craigs LIst by saying they are demo models. I bought my Giant from a LBS like this. But they are really new bikes that they have an employee ride home a few times to put on a few miles (mine had 17 miles on it). They sold it to me $500 below the current MSRP by calling it a demo.

At least when someone else now puts Canyon in the EMTB seach, they might see your horror story AND WILL BE SMART ENOUGH TO AVOID BUYING ANY CANYON BRANDED BIKE or accessory . . . Period.

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Wow, what a story! Sorry you got involved in their scam (and it is a scam by Canyon). Yes, you could dispute the credit card charge and the bank instantly reverses it. Then the offending comapny has like 30-60 days to resolve the issue and if they ignore the banks request for their side of the story you get to keep the item for free!

But as another poster has said above Canyon alreay said to send it back and they will refund you except to the $1,500 in taxes and thats what their answer will be back to the bank plus I'm sure, they will make you eat the shipping back to them.

So your resolution of buying your own battery seems like your best alternative.

But I would at least copy this thread and send it into CN consumer affairs as Canyon is scamming people and as you discovered this is why they don't advertise any "new" Canyons. So they are squirting the rules of not selling Canyon in CN by ripping you off with no included battery. Some bike stores do the same thing. They beat the fair trade locked in MSRP which prevents the bike stores to advertise cheaper than MSRP unless the manufacturer lowers their price for a short time special. So the bike stores sell new bikes below MSRP on sites like Craigs LIst by saying they are demo models. I bought my Giant from a LBS like this. But they are really new bikes that they have an employee ride home a few times to put on a few miles (mine had 17 miles on it). They sold it to me $500 below the current MSRP by calling it a demo.

At least when someone else now puts Canyon in the EMTB seach, they might see your horror story AND WILL BE SMART ENOUGH TO AVOID BUYING ANY CANYON BRANDED BIKE or accessory . . . Period.

I'm wondering if I even sent Canyon a link to this thread to see if they would do any damage control?

 

[Expidia]

I'm wondering if I even sent Canyon a link to this thread to see if they would do any damage control?

You need to let them know they are selling Canyon illegally in CN and you will send these pages to CN consumer affairs unless they credit you back for the battery you had to order on your own.
At the very least, heads will roll at Canyon’s customer service department as instead of them doing the right thing an settling your issues they forced you to report that they are breaking CN consumer laws.

 

[B1rdie]

It would just be way easier and the least hassle, wouldn't it?

Yes...but this is just the opinion of a rider with 20 years of mountain biking that happens to also be a retired customs officer

 

[KCMitch]

So, some backstory...

Over the last 6 or so months I have been browsing the Canadian website for Canyon and in the outlet section I noticed that they sold slightly used (returns), previous test or new e-bikes with cosmetic issues. However, for some reason, they never sold any in the new section. Couldn't understand why but never really gave it much thought. All i knew is I wanted one and they were of exceptional value compared to other brands. But every Monday morning they would have a fresh batch of e-bikes listed in their outlet section. So I'm finally a new and first time owner of an e-mountain bike. Pulled the trigger on A Canyon Torque ON 7 and was delivered yesterday.

Upon unpacking the things inside the box, there was one key component missing. The battery. I frantically started going through everything a second time thinking I may have missed it but nope, I somehow got shafted. I was pretty disappointed and angry so I decided to chat it up with Canyon to get to the bottom of things and the rep that I was speaking to said that he would forward my concern higher up as he was not able to give me a solution. A short time later I received an email:

"Hi John, thank you for your chat. We were told that unfortunately there was an error on the website and you should return the Torque ON 7 because we are not yet able to sell e-bikes in Canada, we are very sorry for the inconvenience."

I was given info on how to start the return process and gave me a link to proceed. i was promised that I would get a full refund on what i paid for the e-bike. He also stated that in order to get my refund of the taxes and duty paid (approx $1500), I would have to contact UPS. Which i did. They stated that taxes and duty are non refundable as the package had made its way to its destination and received in good order. Well at this point in time I'm not having a very good day so I figured you know what, all is not lost. I figured it would make more sense to keep the stupid thing and try to find a battery for it rather than sending it back and lose $1500 from Canyon's mistake. Thing is, I can't for the life of me find any dealer in Canada that sells these batteries. Most of my searching pointed me to websites across the pond who do not ship batteries internationally. This is a problem.

I decided to email Canyon back last night and told them that they need to step up and do the right thing and either reimburse me everything, including the duties and taxes or somehow figure out how to get me a battery. I also told them that they have been selling e-bikes on their Canadian website for months. But the truth of the matter is I paid for the complete e-bike. Almost 24 hrs later, no response. I'm thinking I'm on my own. So the battery that is supposed to come with the bike is the Shimano BT-E8035L. Its a 504Wh battery. But I have read that the 630Wh battery (BT-E8036) is the exact same size and is supposedly interchangeable (I cannot confirm this as I have no way of trying it).

Ultimately I was hoping to find a shop near me that had them or sold them but I can't find one. My idea was to take my bike there and test it with their battery first before i decide to pay extra now for a whole new battery. Just to see if the bike starts up and operates normally. So as for now, I'm stuck with an analogue e-bike and have no idea where to go from here. Quite the situation it seems. Now if only I could get any ideas/solutions/workarounds from the smart bunch from this forum lol. I appreciate anything at this point. Thanks...

Dude,
I'm in Germany let me know what you need. They have them all over the place here and I can hit my LBS guy and can work anything for you if need be. Also do u have the cover for the battery or do you need one. a quick search and found it for 619 Euro. about 890 Canadian. Well have to figure out shipping but DHL is everywhere. I would keep that damn thing, yes you may lose the warranty but you have a kick arse bike.
Let me know
Mitch

STEPS BT-E8036 630Wh Battery integrated

Features - Shimano Steps Battery BT-E8036 integrated 630Wh Supports sleek frame design Optimum protection against the weather (IPX5 certified), surface damage and cold Recess for On / Off button and battery gauge...

www.bike-discount.de

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

You need to let them know they are selling Canyon illegally in CN and you will send these pages to CN consumer affairs unless they credit you back for the battery you had to order on your own.
At the very least, heads will roll at Canyon’s customer service department as instead of them doing the right thing an settling your issues they forced you to report that they are breaking CN consumer laws.

I'm pretty sure that will be my next step. They finally sent a reply to me this morning in regards to the request for help that I sent 4 days ago. They again admitted they were at fault and said there was nothing they could do for me except to return the ebike and they would reimburse me. The battery I ordered should be arriving tomorrow or the day after. I'm going to see if they will reimburse me the cost of the battery. Still debating whether to be nice and civil in my response or to finally put my foot down and be mean. But there's a saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".

 

[DrJohnnyFever74]

Yes...but this is just the opinion of a rider with 20 years of mountain biking that happens to also be a retired customs officer

Thanks and I really dont want to deal with customs at all. Someone sent me a link earlier on how to apply to get my fees back and its quite the process. And who knows how long and how difficult it will be before I would even get my money back.

 

[Expidia]

I'm pretty sure that will be my next step. They finally sent a reply to me this morning in regards to the request for help that I sent 4 days ago. They again admitted they were at fault and said there was nothing they could do for me except to return the ebike and they would reimburse me. The battery I ordered should be arriving tomorrow or the day after. I'm going to see if they will reimburse me the cost of the battery. Still debating whether to be nice and civil in my response or to finally put my foot down and be mean. But there's a saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".

You should first ask to have a supervisor call you back. After that with no resolution turn them into CN consumer affairs or whatever dept CN calls it. Or they will continue to suck in money from people that order a Canyon in good faith as you did.