90% of ebikes leverages are a joke.

[The Hodge]

I've always liked Santa Cruz ..but I think that Trek just edges it for me ..
Nothing wrong with either cockpit as far as I can see though Bambam ..?

 

[Rosemount]

Its a mistake if the frame wasn't designed for it. People think you can just mix and match these things and you can't.

Half the levo coil users on this forum must be clueless riders because that design is far to linear for coil and it snaps them too. The only conclusion I can come to is that they don't have any idea how it's supposed to feel or they ride so tame it doesn't bottom out over every drop or they run the wrong spring to compensate.

A coil requires a more aggressive curve to compensate for the linear nature of a spring. You require the force to ramp up towards the last third of the stroke. An air shock has this naturally as the pressure increases due to compression. A coil without this can blow through its travel and you get a violent hit on the bump stop and the energy is transfered to you and other parts of the bike which is not good.

Coils feel nice on rough trails but they also suck out a lot of energy when you want to pop off a jump. It's a trade off and it depends on what style of riding you do.

Have you ridden a Levo with a coil ?

Yes. They have started to. Aftermarket yokes too.

The problem is that you can't really believe anything people say about their performance. You need someone with actual knowledge and experience to test and give their verdict.

You will notice there is a pattern to anecdotal experiences on bike forums. The use of "totally transforms the bike" is applied to any upgrade which the rider has spent money on. Including the coil shock which is now bottoming out and oil pissing out all over the trail...

Well my Ohlins on my Levo hasn`t bottomed out and isn`t pissing oil .
So have you had it happen to you ?

 

[R120]

Ok lets bring this thread back on topic

 

[The Hodge]

Love it ..that spring is obviously designed to send you into orbit if you have an otb ..thus relieving the strain on our overworked NHS ..
New technology at its best ..also loving the retro rust look..or crumple zones.. if you have a head on crash the bike just disintegrates
Fabulous bit of kit ?

 

[Hamina]

If the bike's rear suspension is a system that is sum of linkage and the shock, then what's the difference on what part of the system makes the progression?

Assuming that one needs progression.

"Just asking"

 

[Mteam]

If the bike's rear suspension is a system that is sum of linkage and the shock, then what's the difference on what part of the system makes the progression?

Assuming that one needs progression.

"Just asking"

A mtb shock provides two things, springing force and damping force, if the progression is in the linkage of the bike then both of these forces are affected by the progression in the linkage. If you increase progression in the spring of the shock (by volume spacers in an air shock, or progressive coil spring) then you get no additional progression in the damping - unless the shock you are using has position sensitive damping as well as speed sensitive damping - so the spring can overwhelm the damping - I most notice this if I use too many volume spacers you get a really fast rebound because the rebound damping is too light for the amount of progession in the air spring towards the end of the stroke.

 

[RickBullotta]

Hate that car I’m not own it for more than a year. A golf with flashy body. Fake boobs on a wonder bra

You oughta drive a modern TT RS. That'll change your mind quickly. Nearly R8 performance (and same interior) for less than half the price. That 2.5L turbo motor is insane in a <3400 lb car.

 

[RickBullotta]

Sports cars are like emtb's.
There aren't really any bad ones any more, but everyone has there own opinion on which one is best and why.

Truth is, just like mountain bikes, they are all invariably infinitely more capable than the majority of punters ever need.

Doesn't stop us enjoying them.

And doesn't stop manufactures having to sell them as the next best thing.

Unless you live next door to the Nurburgring or do a lot of track days, quick cars are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot.
Driving a really quick car on the road (unless you drive like prick) is a bit like, erm, only ever riding your Rocky Mountain, Levo or Rail up and down fire roads. There are plenty of middle aged fat blokes that do both.

Oh wait a minute.....

That was one of the positives that came out of COVID 19 - empty roads and no police for a couple months!

 

[The Hodge]

I would slightly disagree there Kilham ..living out in the sticks with a fairly quiet road network ..on decent roads means that I can drive fairly quick without having to aggravate other folks ..( but just the fact that you overtake something safely at speed sometimes sends that driver into meltdown ) ...

 

[The Hodge]

I would but I can see that you are already close to boiling ..?

 

[Eddy Current]

Is simple as that. Major brands look for sales. Ebikes open the door to any kind of riders, so they suit a wide range for leverage. As a result they rely on new shocks (wich are so good) but those only came (if came) in the top of the end models. And they sacrificed coil. It’s not an air coil design it’s ONLY for air design, thats not right.

The few enduro dna brands don’t this an many of them are no less than a 20%

My complaint is whatever is a enduro or major brand a 65 ha 160mm travel ebike is for aggressive riding. It’s ok some linear on trail ebikes. You see many Rail owners here saying they would wish a bit more so I’m right. And if you see Merida Spe etc leverages are even “worst”

Just a flip chip with two positions can solve this don’t even need two different linkages!

What Gary say about pro riders running linear setups ... men those are pros their timing load/unload weight skills allow them. You can translate it to us.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

You oughta drive a modern TT RS. That'll change your mind quickly. Nearly R8 performance (and same interior) for less than half the price. That 2.5L turbo motor is insane in a <3400 lb car.

They are incredibly fast. But you can’t beat the v8 (or 10) rumble ?

And the chassis in the R8 is unreal.

Shit gearbox (auto) tho in 1st gen. But what an awesome car.

 

[Eddy Current]

You oughta drive a modern TT RS. That'll change your mind quickly. Nearly R8 performance (and same interior) for less than half the price. That 2.5L turbo motor is insane in a <3400 lb car.

Didn’t see this. No tarmac sport car of that size that worth name sport car is awd, auto, and weights more than 1.400 kgs dude. I’m sure they improve a lot but still with 100hp an rx8 the s2k the z4M Boxter yours proudly UK Lotus ... those are sport cars. TT is a mini GT.

To keep it with the topic, these are straight line bullets, 4x4 for easy cornering and lot of comfy features. A car that anyone can drive reasonable fast. And most important the TT suspension is not progressive enough. Just as ebikes

 

[Gary]

Ed. With the greatest respect. You don't have enough understanding of what you're talking about here.
You litterally have picked a leverage ratio and spent the entire thread being a dick about it.
It's been quite fascinating.
But please stop trying to ram iyour nonsense down our throats. Eh?

 

[Eddy Current]

Ed. With the greatest respect. You don't have enough understanding of what you're talking about here.
You litterally have picked a leverage ratio and spent the entire thread being a dick about it.
It's been quite fascinating.
But please stop trying to ram iyour nonsense down our throats. Eh?

The Trek Rail owners seems too ... right? I explained in the post before what I think this happens. To be even morr stubborn about it, its shows a big design failure, if a linkage is progressive enough you can run a coil or a mid range air shock on these is “mandatory“ to fit the top of line shock and cannot run a coil in case you want more linear feeling. See the difference?

 

[RickBullotta]

Didn’t see this. No tarmac sport car of that size that worth name sport car is awd, auto, and weights more than 1.400 kgs dude. I’m sure they improve a lot but still with 100hp an rx8 the s2k the z4M Boxter yours proudly UK Lotus ... those are sport cars. TT is a mini GT.

To keep it with the topic, these are straight line bullets, 4x4 for easy cornering and lot of comfy features. A car that anyone can drive reasonable fast. And most important the TT suspension is not progressive enough. Just as ebikes

ha. $5000-10000 (about an eMTB) invested in suspension, tires, and breathing on both ends and the TT RS (which is nothing like a base TT) can throw down with most cars that cost 2-10X as much. I agree though that the stock suspension is not ideal. The car also has a bit of oversteer at the limit. In any case, we are blessed and lucky to live in a time where there are so many extraordinary cars, all of which could outperform every single dream car of my misspent youth.

 

[Eddy Current]

ha. $5000-10000 (about an eMTB) invested in suspension, tires, and breathing on both ends and the TT RS (which is nothing like a base TT) can throw down with most cars that cost 2-10X as much. I agree though that the stock suspension is not ideal. The car also has a bit of oversteer at the limit. In any case, we are blessed and lucky to live in a time where there are so many extraordinary cars, all of which could outperform every single dream car of my misspent youth.

They got no soul. Keep and oldie NSX. I was joking on the suspension of the TT but seems i was not much out of the line ...

If you follow some of the loamwolf guys stuff, it’s on all their ebike reviews, suspension bit too linear (they are gentle), few ebikes they don’t complain about that

 

[RickBullotta]

They got no soul. Keep and oldie NSX. I was joking on the suspension of the TT but seems i was not much out of the line ...

If you follow some of the loamwolf guys stuff, it’s on all their ebike reviews, suspension bit too linear (they are gentle), few ebikes they don’t complain about that

oh man. a first gen NSX would be sweet.

 

[Eddy Current]

oh man. a first gen NSX would be sweet.

That car born against adversities (power limited in Japan) just a ebikes born with the weight penalty and none born as 29ers thats why they made it so sharp in every way.

I was susprised in a recent thread when somebody poll 29er or mullet? And everybody say 27.5! When i open the 29ers suck thread there was my friend Gary ”Ed you talking shi*” “pro riders run 29ers” and all his knowed weapons of argument discussion. The truth is 29ers sucks other than superfun straight plow, integrated and heavier batterys kill the handle even more and 90% of leverages are made to suit everybody not “enduro” riders.

I hitted that berm a long long time ago! Don’t you see how late the suspension reacted? Get up and get get get down, 90% leverages are a joke joke in yo trails!

 

[Slapbassmunky]

The Trek Rail owners seems too ... right? I explained in the post before what I think this happens. To be even morr stubborn about it, its shows a big design failure, if a linkage is progressive enough you can run a coil or a mid range air shock on these is “mandatory“ to fit the top of line shock and cannot run a coil in case you want more linear feeling. See the difference?

I have a Trek Rail, I also have a bottom of the range Marzocchi bomber CR that I'm going to revalve to suit. I'm confident it'll be just fine on even the biggest hits. I picked the CR exactly BECAUSE its easy to tear down and play about with in the shed with no particularly special tools and no ridiculous procedures to reassemble.

 

[Gary]

Don't be so quick to follow the advice of a bunch of middle aged goons who don't even ride in the wet Ed.
Here's a little footage of a local guy on a Trek Ebike managing to ride it in a manner you or they simply couldn't match no matter what progression your Ebike has.

Now go and ride your bike bro.

 

[Eddy Current]

I never said you can’t ride fast because it’s too linear or linear is worst ... it’s just more simple, is easier (and works better) to turn a progressive linkage into a more linear one with a coil than turn a air shock more progressive stuffing tokens. They can do a bit better that’s for sure

 

[Hamina]

I never said you can’t ride fast because it’s too linear or linear is worst ... it’s just more simple, is easier (and works better) to turn a progressive linkage into a more linear one with a coil than turn a air shock more progressive stuffing tokens. They can do a bit better that’s for sure

You should define us a formula to determine adequate amount of bike's rear suspension progression based on ones riding profile. You can emphasise speed as variable in the equation. Only after these basic things we have meet the minimum requirements to continue this discussion.

 

[Eddy Current]

You should define us a formula to determine adequate amount of bike's rear suspension progression based on ones riding profile. You can emphasise speed as variable in the equation. Only after these basic things we have meet the minimum requirements to continue this discussion.

The amount enough to run a coil or a mid range shock. The adequate amount by default now is ... for everybody!

 

[Hobo Mikey]

I can’t take anyones advice who drives a Audi TT. I even find it hard to understand that anyone who has/ owned a Audi TT even rides an EMBT. Audi TT are for hairdressers who would never ride a bike because it would mess there hair up.

 

[RickBullotta]

I can’t take anyones advice who drives a Audi TT. I even find it hard to understand that anyone who has/ owned a Audi TT even rides an EMBT. Audi TT are for hairdressers who would never ride a bike because it would mess there hair up.

lol. maybe that’s why I buzzed my hair short. my biggest problem with my TT RS (which drives nothing like a base TT) is that it hops off the line so fast I often spill my beer. Needs deeper cup holders. Cheers. ?

 

[Rosemount]

Don't be so quick to follow the advice of a bunch of middle aged goons who don't even ride in the wet Ed.
Here's a little footage of a local guy on a Trek Ebike managing to ride it in a manner you or they simply couldn't match no matter what progression your Ebike has.

Now go and ride your bike bro.

Could you try linking that again pls Gary .
I am curious .

www.instagram.com refused to connect.

 

[Gary]

Just refresh the page and try again Rosey.
Or were you making some sort of quirky joke (in a similar vein to your music taste) I've missed? ?

 

[Rosemount]

Just refresh the page and try again Rosey.
Or were you making some sort of quirky joke (in a similar vein to your music taste) I've missed? ?

Cannot load Instagram. Disable any adblocker or tracking protection and try again.

My mistake Gary . Apology .
This one time I wasn`t taking the piss . Anyway I turned off the ad blockers and it still didn`t work . So que serra .

 

[Gary]

It's just Reese Wilson riding his Trek Eeb rather quickly.
There's plenty of footage of him doing so on his insta if you follow him.