90% of ebikes leverages are a joke.

[CjP]

Yeah, kind “I’m an angry consumer! You’re going to heard me!”

Listen, I can do an effort and understand major brands think about a wide range of users, but genuine enduro dna brands such commencal is something to worry about it. In the name of Jesus Andorra is near me and if a spend 8k in a ebike trusting the pedigree of a brand and then I found myself filling the shock with spacers to fix it ... I would register any single mtb Internet forum talking sheit if they don’t give my money back.

Wow you’re like a dog with a bone.
Move on mate, they are not going to make specific race models for the 1% of people that will buy/ride them, just like Audi wont sell you a Le Mans car or even the “basic” GT cars.

You’ll just have to settle for the TT..

 

[The Hodge]

Too much information. Who gives a shit?
I’m off for a long walk to see if I can find something interesting in the local streams.

Morning Bill..
Find anything interesting? ?

 

[Hamina]

In most ebikes a coil is just a dowgrade, ... what we do? Jump to a higher spring rate? No.

I'm about to buy coil shock for my Trek Rail. What mistake I'm going to make? Only technical limitations and issues are interesting. If you have time please answer my previous questions also if possible.

 

[Hamina]

How does progressive (instead of linear) spring affect on this?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think Eddy needs to campaign for hardtails with more progressive rear suspension, or at least more rear suspension.

I'm not in the top 1% but I always thought my hardtails would have been much faster with more rear suspension. On the bright side, at least I didn't have all the problems trying to configure my compression and rebound damping to work within a none linear situation. Eddy, add on that you want all suspension manufacturers to make sure their shocks have progressive compression and rebound damping so the lay man can still get his bike ride able.

 

[geehaw]

Its a mistake if the frame wasn't designed for it. People think you can just mix and match these things and you can't.

Half the levo coil users on this forum must be clueless riders because that design is far to linear for coil and it snaps them too. The only conclusion I can come to is that they don't have any idea how it's supposed to feel or they ride so tame it doesn't bottom out over every drop or they run the wrong spring to compensate.

A coil requires a more aggressive curve to compensate for the linear nature of a spring. You require the force to ramp up towards the last third of the stroke. An air shock has this naturally as the pressure increases due to compression. A coil without this can blow through its travel and you get a violent hit on the bump stop and the energy is transfered to you and other parts of the bike which is not good.

Coils feel nice on rough trails but they also suck out a lot of energy when you want to pop off a jump. It's a trade off and it depends on what style of riding you do.

Do they make progressive springs for MTB's. Just curious.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Do they make progressive springs for MTB's. Just curious.

Progressive Springs

MRP Progressive Springs are the first mountain bike progressive spring on the market. They provide additional bottom-out support and allow you to put a coil shock on bikes that previously required air shocks.

mrpbike.com

An AIR spring is also naturally progressive. The more you compress the air, the harder it becomes to compress it further.

EDIT : Warning - Eddy may claim this is just a conspiracy theory and that we should use water springs if it wasn't for the rich people hogging all the water. Because, you know, waters so compressible ..

 

[R120]

Yes they make progressive springs.

Coils are flavour of the month right now, I love coils shocks, but like air shocks they have their benefits and their drawbacks, and on certain bikes fitting a coil shock on is going to do it and the rider no favours.

Lets face it a coil shock looks gnarly and cool, makes your bike look bad ass, and hopefully you too - and thats the main reason IMO that a lot of people buy them .

How inherently "nimble" an emtb feels has to do with the geometry and weight placement, how you set the suspension up is really a personal decision.

I still think far too many people buy EMTB's and indeed bikes in general with what looks cool as a priority over actually researching what the best bike for them will be in terms of geometry and specification.

I have two riding buddies local to me with Levo's, who came of Whyte MTB's - I recommended the Trek Rail and the Whyte E150 to them, and out local LBS sells all three brands, but both went with the Levo because they though it looked the coolest of the bunch. Levo is a good bike, but is suspect a lot of people buy them primarily because they are a Specilized and look good. They are not hardcore mountain bikers, just regular guys who like to do a bit of mountain biking, like most people who make up the consumer market.

I like most people want a bike that looks cool, because at the end of the day if you are dropping big money you want something that gives you a boner, but at the same time if you are dropping large amounts on a bike its best to make sure it does what you want, can be modified with parts you want, and fits you properly.

 

[R120]

The Marzochi shocks fitted to the Kenevo where well know for failing long before they where specified on that bike, my LBS was surprised that they decided to go with that shock on the bike given issues they had seen with the shocks before, and rightly predicted there would be problems.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Lets face it a coil shock looks gnarly and cool, makes your bike look bad ass, and hopefully you too

??

 

[R120]

??

View attachment 52918

View attachment 52919

Looks like a progressive spring to me

 

[Mteam]

How does progressive (instead of linear) spring affect on this?

depends how progressive the spring rate is on the coil spring , and what you're comparing it to, it should behave a bit more like an air shock though, but without the added friction caused by the air spring seals, and the extra heat that repeatedly compressing and decompressing air generates, and the potentially inconsistant damping that heat can cause. All depends on the exact shocks/springs/bikes/terrain/riding style you're talking about though.

Having had bikes with fairly linear linkages and bikes with fairly progressive linkages - I think I prefer the progressive linkages with a fairly large volume (and therefore less progressive) air shock , I like the bottomless feel when landing off drops , but there's no right or wrong with any of this, just what you as an individual prefer, thankfully there are bikes out there for every preference.

What a lot of people dont talk about when they discuss progressive bikes vs linear bikes is that with a linear bike you can tune the air shock with volume spacers to make the air spring more (or less) progressive to somewhat change the feel of the rear suspension, but unless the shock has position sensitive damping features that can also be ramped up towards the end of travel you're stuck with linear damping. whereas with a progressive linkage the damping effect also increases along with spring rates the further into the travel you go.

ie a progressive linkage gives you a progressive spring rate (maybe too progressive if you dont have a correctly matched air shock) and progressive damping, whereas a linear linkage can give you a linear'ish spring rate and linear damping or a progressive spring rate (air spring packed with spacers) and linear damping .

most people dont care (or can even tell the difference between linear and progressive) about this stuff though, and buy the bike they like the look of/the reviews say is best/they can afford.

 

[geehaw]

Progressive Springs

MRP Progressive Springs are the first mountain bike progressive spring on the market. They provide additional bottom-out support and allow you to put a coil shock on bikes that previously required air shocks.

mrpbike.com

An AIR spring is also naturally progressive. The more you compress the air, the harder it becomes to compress it further.

EDIT : Warning - Eddy may claim this is just a conspiracy theory and that we should use water springs if it wasn't for the rich people hogging all the water. Because, you know, waters so compressible ..

Next question. Just to open a can of worms. Does anyone use nitrogen in their AIR shocks?

 

[Jackware]

You sheeple need to wake up and realise we're all part of the great reset.
Covid is a fake endemic created by Chinese billionaire bike factory owners to force the world's employed workforce to stay at home and then be 'encouraged' by subliminal advertising and deepfake YT channels to buy full suspension bikes and e bikes. The most insidious part of the conspiracy is that the suspension on these bikes have a dreadful design and the illuminati then market replacement forks and shocks as the must have panacea, making us spend more money.
Various shills appear on sites such as this one to ensure no one design is favoured thus ensuring all of the elite prosper from the ensuring discord.

 

[The Hodge]

Written like a true believer ?

 

[Beekeeper]

Too much information. Who gives a shit?
I’m off for a long walk to see if I can find something interesting in the local streams.

The only graph I actually understand about bikes is this one..

 

[billwarwick]

Morning Bill..
Find anything interesting? ?

No, just a dead sheep and a sofa.

 

[Beekeeper]

No, just a dead sheep and a sofa.

Did you say you went for a walk or did you change your mind and play a game of Cluedo instead?

I’m guessing it was Colonel Mustard in the Lounge who was responsible?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

most people dont care (or can even tell the difference between linear and progressive) about this stuff though, and buy the bike they like the look of/the reviews say is best/they can afford.

Totally agree.

People have a passion for also changing bits and upgrading. If someone fits a coil and it makes them happy then all is good.

Part of bike ownership for me is the process of upgrading. Many things we upgrade is not only for the performance benefits, but also in the pleasure of the pursuit of improvement.

I meet a lot of riders on the trails that I talk to and 99.9% of them couldn’t give a toss about leverage curves, progressive vs linear or even head angle numbers...

But if it’s got a Kashima coated fork and a 625wh or more battery - these are the things that sell bikes. And make riders happy. Live and let live

 

[Rahr85]

I know kashima does nothing at all.

I still want to buy it because *shiny*

I'm ashamed

know this... i looked into getting the fox dropper post even though it is worse because it looks shiny. £300+ for shiny might be a bit excessive.

 

[Rahr85]

The suspension came on the bike, the dropper would be replacing a perfectly good part purely for cosmetic reasons. the current dropper isn't exactly cheap to just swap out and leave lying around ?

 

[Doomanic]

After every man and his dog told me by bike was shit and not progressive enough for a coil I emailed Cascade. While they agree the Rail would benefit from more progressivity they have no plans to produce a linkage at this time. Just as well really, as they aren't pocket money prices...

 

[Beekeeper]

I know kashima does nothing at all.

I still want to buy it because *shiny*

I'm ashamed

I just love big burly and beefy kashima coated forks.

Eating vegetables now is a real joy. They can cope with anything you throw at them.

Dropping in on a pile of gnarly green beans is no problem now and sending it on some red cabbage is a plush experience

 

[R120]

I went down the full Kashima route on one bike, the fox dropper is a POS is my opinion and had more problems than my Brand X's at a third of the price, and my One Up, but I stick with it because I am a vain fool!

 

[Pigin]

but I stick with it because I am a vain fool!

? and your 80’s tache as well!

 

[R120]

? and your 80’s tache as well!

 

[Zimmerframe]

The suspension came on the bike, the dropper would be replacing a perfectly good part purely for cosmetic reasons. the current dropper isn't exactly cheap to just swap out and leave lying around ?

You could re-use it ? Set it up with a boxing glove on to punch anyone who presses your door bell ? ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

After every man and his dog told me by bike was shit and not progressive enough for a coil

I really feel empty now and like I missed out on a good opportunity ...

 

[steve_sordy]

Can someone please help me find the leverage curve on this rear end? I’m afraid that just getting in to the movement would be super hard at first but then once you’re in the sweet spot it would be maybe too loose.

Please help me. I’m in need.
View attachment 52917
Taking about the trek. Only pic I could find on the internet. For anyone that was thinking other you should be banned you sexist scum.........

I respond to your excellent pic of a Trek with this one of a Santa Cruz.

 

[Gary]

Droppers are shit full stop imo. My AXS is great though. Until it breaks then ill think its just as crap as the rest. Spesh own brand have to be the worst tho. they leaked air new from factory 3 times in a row.

IMO droppers should never have been designed around a round stanchion but that's a whole other discussion.

£120 Brand X droppers are more reliable than any Fox or Rockshox dropper
"Buy cheap buy twice" with a BX is actually very good advice

how did we get from being dicks about suspension progression to moaning about droppers anyway?