50lbs vs 53lbs bike — will it be noticeable?

[emtbPhil]

Cut carbs for 2 weeks and drink loads of water, you'll shed more than 3lbs in water retention

 

[Plummet]

It’s all in the build. Every single part was picked to be as light as possible, while still being durable for me. Link to build below.

2023 Pole️Voima️Race Pack

I love your light weight build. But it doesn't suit my style so I can't get to the same weight bike as you.
The 10-42 cassette is to small, I climb super steep stuff and need a 50T. I'd smash the LB40! to bits (i've already smash my meat bike LB wheelset twice, E needed something stronger), I need a dh casing in the rear, want 29er front, berd would be too flexible, I run flats, 150 dropper is too small.

Every one of those things adds up to more weight... I wish i had your weight bike though. It would be awesome until I smashing something.

 

[Plummet]

Two batteries are a great idea. I use two 625s and often swap at half time if in a bike park at if out on a big exploratory ride I carry a spare that fits snuggly in a camelback mule. Any battery larger than a 625 is generally too long to carry on your back in my experience

Years ago one of the local guys crashed while wearing a back pack with a camera in it. He shorted a massive table and got bounced over the front and landed on hit back on the camera. The camera severed his spinal cord. No more walking for walking for that guy!....

Since then I haven't ridden with any spine severing thing in my back packs.

In saying that I plan on getting another battery. But it will be in the car and i'll loop back, pick the battery up and carry one.

 

[Onetime]

I love your light weight build. But it doesn't suit my style so I can't get to the same weight bike as you.
The 10-42 cassette is to small, I climb super steep stuff and need a 50T. I'd smash the LB40! to bits (i've already smash my meat bike LB wheelset twice, E needed something stronger), I need a dh casing in the rear, want 29er front, berd would be too flexible, I run flats, 150 dropper is too small.

Every one of those things adds up to more weight... I wish i had your weight bike though. It would be awesome until I smashing something.

Different strokes for different folks! I guess I’m pretty lucky in that I seem to be able to get away with light stuff that most people can’t. I’ve also had no problems climbing up super steep stuff with my 11 speed 10-42 x 32 and the 27.5 x 2.8’s. The Bosch race motor makes easy work of that. But I also had no climbing problems with my previous Voima with the regular motor either. I think the steep 80* STA and 40 helps keep the front end down too. And I’ve also not had any issues breaking anything riding the blacks or double blacks at bike parks or my local trails at speed, (old man speed). But I’m pretty competitive when it comes to DH, so I’m always pushing the limits as soon as I get to the DH. I’m like Ricky Bobby, I like to go fast. IDK if it’s line choice or my MX background or whatever, but luckily I’ve always been pretty easy on my wheels, (ps, the Berd’s don’t really flex, but they do absorb trail chatter and vibrations nicely). Anyway , keep your shredding action shots coming too.

 

[Suns_PSD]

For sure an ebike can climb anything that's possible in a 42 tooth with a 32 up front. Doubly so with a full power Bosch & a 27.5" rear wheel.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Different strokes for different folks! I guess I’m pretty lucky in that I seem to be able to get away with light stuff that most people can’t. I’ve also had no problems climbing up super steep stuff with my 11 speed 10-42 x 32 and the 27.5 x 2.8’s. The Bosch race motor makes easy work of that. But I also had no climbing problems with my previous Voima with the regular motor either. I think the steep 80* STA and 40 helps keep the front end down too. And I’ve also not had any issues breaking anything riding the blacks or double blacks at bike parks or my local trails at speed, (old man speed). But I’m pretty competitive when it comes to DH, so I’m always pushing the limits as soon as I get to the DH. I’m like Ricky Bobby, I like to go fast. IDK if it’s line choice or my MX background or whatever, but luckily I’ve always been pretty easy on my wheels, (ps, the Berd’s don’t really flex, but they do absorb trail chatter and vibrations nicely). Anyway , keep your shredding action shots coming too.

Do you still have really good front wheel traction and front to rear balance with that 10mm stem?
I recently tested a 32mm stem and just could not get the front end to maintain traction with that stem. Going back to a 40mm fixed this issue for me.
Otherwise I greatly preferred the shorter stem.

 

[Onetime]

Do you still have really good front wheel traction and front to rear balance with that 10mm stem?
I recently tested a 32mm stem and just could not get the front end to maintain traction with that stem. Going back to a 40mm fixed this issue for me.
Otherwise I greatly preferred the shorter stem.

Yeah, I really like the short stem. It actually helps my front end traction since I have more weight over the front wheel. I tend to ride centered and more upright on the bike and I like a higher cockpit, (more moto style) so the shorter and taller cockpit helps this. I also have a reduced offset drop crown on the 40. I think it’s a 46 if my memory serves me right. With the original 52 offset crown and longer stem I did have issues with front end traction and some sketchy high speed front washing and tucking moments on loose over hard pack. That’s the main reason I got the reduced offset crown and shorter stem when my 40 was on my DH bike, (Intense M9). When I got the first Voima, I took the 40 including the whole cockpit off of my DH and put it on the Voima and that’s how I ran it from the get go. I also like how the 10mm stem on the 40 it looks like my Moto’s.

 

[Plummet]

Different strokes for different folks! I guess I’m pretty lucky in that I seem to be able to get away with light stuff that most people can’t. I’ve also had no problems climbing up super steep stuff with my 11 speed 10-42 x 32 and the 27.5 x 2.8’s. The Bosch race motor makes easy work of that. But I also had no climbing problems with my previous Voima with the regular motor either. I think the steep 80* STA and 40 helps keep the front end down too. And I’ve also not had any issues breaking anything riding the blacks or double blacks at bike parks or my local trails at speed, (old man speed). But I’m pretty competitive when it comes to DH, so I’m always pushing the limits as soon as I get to the DH. I’m like Ricky Bobby, I like to go fast. IDK if it’s line choice or my MX background or whatever, but luckily I’ve always been pretty easy on my wheels, (ps, the Berd’s don’t really flex, but they do absorb trail chatter and vibrations nicely). Anyway , keep your shredding action shots coming too.

Indeed, Different strokes for different folks. I'm keen as fuck to hear about 500wh voima.

 

[Onetime]

Indeed, Different strokes for different folks. I'm keen as fuck to hear about 500wh voima.

I’ll let you know.

 

[Plummet]

I’ll let you know.

Ps, are you using the stock battery cover or the 3d printed vision velo one? I have a memory that the velo one is lighter the cnc machined pole version.

 

[Onetime]

Ps, are you using the stock battery cover or the 3d printed vision velo one? I have a memory that the velo one is lighter the cnc machined pole version.

I have the VisionVelo cover coming along with the spacer/adapter.

 

[Plummet]

I have the VisionVelo cover coming along with the spacer/adapter.

Do they do a 625hw adapter? Part of my reluctance to do to 500wh is that I know I can burn a full 750wh in 2.5-3.5 hours. If I want to do a full day at the bike park i'll burn through a 500wh too fast.

I'm actually thinking about screwing the weight savings and getting another 750wh because I know dual 750wh battery day would be epic as fuck!

 

[Onetime]

Do they do a 625hw adapter? Part of my reluctance to do to 500wh is that I know I can burn a full 750wh in 2.5-3.5 hours. If I want to do a full day at the bike park i'll burn through a 500wh too fast.

I'm actually thinking about screwing the weight savings and getting another 750wh because I know dual 750wh battery day would be epic as fuck!

I think the only one he is making right now is for the 500. But I bet if you asked him and there was more interest, he would probably make you one. He also made me some 3d printed brake tools for my hope brakes after I asked him if he could, since hope had the pdf files available on their website.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yeah, I really like the short stem. It actually helps my front end traction since I have more weight over the front wheel. I tend to ride centered and more upright on the bike and I like a higher cockpit, (more moto style) so the shorter and taller cockpit helps this. I also have a reduced offset drop crown on the 40. I think it’s a 46 if my memory serves me right. With the original 52 offset crown and longer stem I did have issues with front end traction and some sketchy high speed front washing and tucking moments on loose over hard pack. That’s the main reason I got the reduced offset crown and shorter stem when my 40 was on my DH bike, (Intense M9). When I got the first Voima, I took the 40 including the whole cockpit off of my DH and put it on the Voima and that’s how I ran it from the get go. I also like how the 10mm stem on the 40 it looks like my Moto’s.

I'm an ex-moto guy as well and
0mm or very short stems make perfect sense to me. They also feel much better in many ways. Steering feels much better and direct, manualing is easier and is more natural, and in my case my bike fit is better.
Unfortunately front wheel traction really goes to crap for me (on 2 different bikes now) when I move to even a slightly shorter stem.
I've noticed the same effect of losing front wheel traction when I've raised my bars with additional spacers. Also I run all bikes with short offset single crown forks, as few stem spacers as possible & the same 35mm riser bars for several bikes in a row now.
My best assumption is that shorter stems and/ or higher bars has my body more upright, shifting a lot of my body mass up and back, removing body weight from the front tire, therefore losing front wheel traction.
Is the correct solution much longer chain-stays to center my body more in combination with a short stem (making for an even longer bike!)? Or possibly a shorter stem but bars that are a shorter height than my current 35mm rise?
This is a curious topic for me...

 

[Onetime]

I'm an ex-moto guy as well and
0mm or very short stems make perfect sense to me. They also feel much better in many ways. Steering feels much better and direct, manualing is easier and is more natural, and in my case my bike fit is better.
Unfortunately front wheel traction really goes to crap for me (on 2 different bikes now) when I move to even a slightly shorter stem.
I've noticed the same effect of losing front wheel traction when I've raised my bars with additional spacers. Also I run all bikes with short offset single crown forks, as few stem spacers as possible & the same 35mm riser bars for several bikes in a row now.
My best assumption is that shorter stems and/ or higher bars has my body more upright, shifting a lot of my body mass up and back, removing body weight from the front tire, therefore losing front wheel traction.
Is the correct solution much longer chain-stays to center my body more in combination with a short stem (making for an even longer bike!)? Or possibly a shorter stem but bars that are a shorter height than my current 35mm rise?
This is a curious topic for me...

I think for me, a longer chainstay works better with a slightly shorter reach and higher cockpit. The K1 Voima has 455mm chainstays and 450 reach, so the 10mm stem and 40mm rise bars feels really good. So even with my upright riding position, I can still get enough weight over the front wheel to maintain good traction without being hunched over reaching way forward, which also helps with my old man low back pain. My other bikes were similar with long chainstays and shorter reaches.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Makes sense.

My CS length is something like 446mm with a 505mm Reach.
I think that is the key to our experiences with short stems being so different.

 

[Chairman]

Years ago one of the local guys crashed while wearing a back pack with a camera in it. He shorted a massive table and got bounced over the front and landed on hit back on the camera. The camera severed his spinal cord. No more walking for walking for that guy!....

Since then I haven't ridden with any spine severing thing in my back packs.

In saying that I plan on getting another battery. But it will be in the car and i'll loop back, pick the battery up and carry one.

Yes there are definately risks involved with bike packing which is why I only do it on adventure rides and ride light at bike parks when hitting jumps etc. Also don't underestimate the damage a cartwheeling ebike can do if it catches up with you. Stay safe everyone let's always try and make sure we can ride again tomorrow

 

[2WheelsNot4]

6 ounces between a 12 or 10 spd cassette. At least a pound between a dropper and a QR seatclamp and carbon post. Carbon bars, carbon stem, 28h over 32h wheelset. 2.35 tyres over 2.6 or 2.8, as you say a smaller battery. In fact the only reason bike like the rise can claim to be lighter is the far smaller battery
Some things you cant really do a lot with weight wise, but one of the Orbea M models and are wiling to make a few sacrifices, then you arent far off non ebb weights.

 

[Suns_PSD]

6 ounces between a 12 or 10 spd cassette. At least a pound between a dropper and a QR seatclamp and carbon post. Carbon bars, carbon stem, 28h over 32h wheelset. 2.35 tyres over 2.6 or 2.8, as you say a smaller battery. In fact the only reason bike like the rise can claim to be lighter is the far smaller battery
Some things you cant really do a lot with weight wise, but one of the Orbea M models and are wiling to make a few sacrifices, then you arent far off non ebb weights.

The funny thing is that every all mountain CF frame weighs between 6-7#s (ignores motor and associated parts on an e- bike). All of them! A very few XC rigs drop down to about a 5# bare weight.
The entirety of the final bike weight differences are in the chosen size, kit bolted on to the thing which comes down to money & intentions, & of course the motor/ battery package in the case of an e- bike.

 

[Growmac]

Years ago one of the local guys crashed while wearing a back pack with a camera in it. He shorted a massive table and got bounced over the front and landed on hit back on the camera. The camera severed his spinal cord. No more walking for walking for that guy!....

This is why I spent the money on a proper battery rucksack when I was using a second battery. The spinal board in the back of the bag seemed like a must to me. The bag has now gone on to a new home now I'm back to only one battery.

 

[RoJo]

I'm thinking the same @LowLow. I think it would be noticeable. My friend notices when his range extender is/isn't on.

Overall though, I think if you want a bike to be more playful then size is more important than travel or weight. I think downsizing gives you more authority to move your body around on the bike... ask the EWS riders who tend to downsize for the same reason. Reducing reach might help even more than reducing mass (but you could do both ). Reducing travel is a waste of time IMHO. Just pump the suspension up a little more if you want more pop, then on the occasion when you do case a jump there is some reserve waiting. The only downside here is a little bit of BB height

 

[LowLow]

Just to give an update, I decided to get the 500wh battery and tested it out on a couple of trails. It's not a night and day difference by any means, but I do notice that the bike feels more lively and fun, especially on flat-ish technical parts of the trail where you have to work to build speed. It's a bit easier to pop off of stuff and change directions too. Overall, I'm pretty happy.

The battery swap ended up reducing the weight by 2.5lbs, not 3lbs -- so 50lbs 10oz vs. 53lbs. Of course, now I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the weight even more. I think I can save another pound or so by getting a lighter wheelset and maybe another pound by replacing the 1x12 GX AXS with 1x11 XO1, lighter cranks, etc...maybe for Xmas.

 

[Onetime]

Just to give an update, I decided to get the 500wh battery and tested it out on a couple of trails. It's not a night and day difference by any means, but I do notice that the bike feels more lively and fun, especially on flat-ish technical parts of the trail where you have to work to build speed. It's a bit easier to pop off of stuff and change directions too. Overall, I'm pretty happy.

The battery swap ended up reducing the weight by 2.5lbs, not 3lbs -- so 50lbs 10oz vs. 53lbs. Of course, now I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the weight even more. I think I can save another pound or so by getting a lighter wheelset and maybe another pound by replacing the 1x12 GX AXS with 1x11 XO1, lighter cranks, etc...maybe for Xmas.

I actually just picked up my 500w battery last night, so I haven’t ridden or weighed it yet. But I was At 50lbs before the swap, so I should be around 47-48ish lbs since I’m already running lighter wheels, cranks and XO1/XX1 11 speed. I’ll post up pics and scale shots later.

 

[seamarsh]

It’s all in the build. Every single part was picked to be as light as possible, while still being durable for me. Link to build below.

2023 Pole️Voima️Race Pack

Clicked to hate but sweet build! haha... 2.8 can be fun.. but double down casings are worth the weight penalty on ebikes, 2.5 or less (2.4 rear) , way better handling especially in the wet.. dry & loose the plus tires do pretty good. The support that stiffer carcass gives is a game changer when railing corners.

 

[LowLow]

I actually just picked up my 500w battery last night, so I haven’t ridden or weighed it yet. But I was At 50lbs before the swap, so I should be around 47-48ish lbs since I’m already running lighter wheels, cranks and XO1/XX1 11 speed. I’ll post up pics and scale shots later.

Dang, that's going to be an even sicker ride!

Do you recall what the weight of the XO1 set up is (cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain, cable/housing)? Or the wheelset weight?

 

[Onetime]

Clicked to hate but sweet build! haha... 2.8 can be fun.. but double down casings are worth the weight penalty on ebikes, 2.5 or less (2.4 rear) , way better handling especially in the wet.. dry & loose the plus tires do pretty good. The support that stiffer carcass gives is a game changer when railing corners.

Thanks man. When it comes to the wheels and tires, it comes down to rider preference and riding styles. Luckily I’ve always been pretty easy on my wheels so I can get away with lighter wheels and tires. Also my rims are 40i so I get plenty of sidewall support from the wide rim and large volume 2.8’s. I actually did back to back runs years ago with 2 wheelsets, (2.4’s on 32i rims vs 2.8’s on 40i rims) and the 2.8’s on 40i wheels were night and day better, faster and smoother for me. So I’ve been running them ever since.

 

[Onetime]

Dang, that's going to be an even sicker ride!

Do you recall what the weight of the XO1 set up is (cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain, cable/housing)? Or the wheelset weight?

I do. But I’m watching the Jr WCDH right now, so I’ll post up the pics and weights when it’s done.

 

[rod9301]

This is why I spent the money on a proper battery rucksack when I was using a second battery. The spinal board in the back of the bag seemed like a must to me. The bag has now gone on to a new home now I'm back to only one battery.

Do you remember what backpack you got?

 

[Onetime]

Dang, that's going to be an even sicker ride!

Do you recall what the weight of the XO1 set up is (cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain, cable/housing)? Or the wheelset weight?

Rear wheel weight minus cassette is 800g, front wheel is 720g. The XO 11 speed 10-42 cassette is 268g. Weirdly, the XX1 10-42 cassette is 280g. Gripshift Shifter is 90g, (I like it) XO derailleur is 256g, XX1 is 248g. YBN 11sp Ti chain is 232g, cables are Jagwire.

 

[Onetime]

The bike was 50lbs before the swap, with the 750 battery, stock Voima battery cover and no fenders. It’s now 47.97lbs with 500w battery, Vision Velo battery adapter and cover as well as front and rear fenders. A 48lb Voima! Can’t wait to ride it and feel the difference!