Levo Gen 2 4973 miles before motor repair

[RichP]

I bought my Levo back in 2018 and it’s exactly 3 years to the day since my first ride on it. Since then I’ve covered 4973 miles without a single motor issue. On Sunday morning my ride was cancelled due to the biblical weather so I thought I’d treat her to a clean. I only use a bucket and wash mitt and rinse the suds off with the hose pipe trying not to go near the bottom bracket or electrics. When I came to clean the chain I found that the crank turned backwards when I turned the pedals backwards! This is not a new phenomenon but after half turn it usually frees up and is actually pretty smooth. This time it was different and I didn’t want to force anything unnecessarily.

I’d discussed the slight stickiness with @Bearing Man back in January and he advised that I keep an eye on it and if it got worse to get in touch and send it for investigation.

It’s now been removed, packed and sent next day delivery in the hope that I can get it back before Christmas.
I spoke to Pete (Bearing man) this morning at Performance Line Bearings and he’s been brilliant, he’s promised to try and expedite the repair and get me back on the bike as soon as possible.

I’ll keep you posted on lead time and costs as well as work scope.

 

[tacoma22]

How’s your battery held up?

 

[RichP]

How’s your battery held up?

Morning tacoma22, I’m pretty happy with it. It’s the smaller 460Wh battery and when charged to 100% it’s reading 442Wh, so a 4% loss isn’t bad in 3 years. I usually ride 30~40 miles on a Sunday morning and 20 miles on a Wednesday evening and don’t charge it until the day before I plan to ride again. Always charge it to full and try to remove the cable as soon as the charge light turns green. I don’t sit watching it, but I don’t leave it powered up for hours once it’s charged. The bike is garaged too so it’s never freezing cold.

 

[Andy__C]

That's awesome to hear. Glad it's done a good stretch for you.

I'm about 1/3 miles you have done and so far so good.... fingers crossed I get close to these miles

 

[RichP]

Thanks, Good luck to you mate. I also use the BLEvo app attached to my HRM. I think it’s pretty awesome for the Levo. Usually ride with assist levels in eco set to 8~24% depending on my heart rate and effort. I set the HR to 145 + or minus 5bpm and that works really well I find. Fingers crossed I get the motor back soon and get back out on it!

 

[Mcharza]

Morning tacoma22, I’m pretty happy with it. It’s the smaller 460Wh battery and when charged to 100% it’s reading 442Wh, so a 4% loss isn’t bad in 3 years. I usually ride 30~40 miles on a Sunday morning and 20 miles on a Wednesday evening and don’t charge it until the day before I plan to ride again. Always charge it to full and try to remove the cable as soon as the charge light turns green. I don’t sit watching it, but I don’t leave it powered up for hours once it’s charged. The bike is garaged too so it’s never freezing cold.

So many kilometres and battery still so good.

- Good old days when everything was better

 

[RichP]

Update...So I removed the motor on Sunday, packed it and sent it Monday. It arrived at 09:25 on Tuesday and by 15:00 I had received an inspection report and photos from the guys at @Performance Line Bearings. I spoke to Pete, paid my money and the motor was dispatched this afternoon. What a service...I really can’t thank Pete @Bearing Man enough. I certainly dodged a bullet by not going out on Sunday morning, I was only only a few pedal strokes away from disaster. When they stripped it down, they found that the belt was split and the whole bottom end was full of mud and grit. The crank shaft bearing surface was obliterated and the needle bearings had to be pressed off!

i’ve added a couple of photos from the report below;

How this motor was still running is beyond me.

It’s now been fully overhauled and is on its way back to me. What a service these guys offer, New crank, new belt, new bearings, new sprag clutch and enhanced water seals. They even cleaned the motor contacts that had signs of corrosion and sealed the screws on the body that tend to let water in and all done within 3 Days....It’s cost me £405 which includes next day postage, but totally worth it, the motor should be better sealed from the elements and if I get another 5,000 miles out of it I’ll be happy!

 

[Mikerb]

.........about the price of a BMW service and less than 2 tyres which only last 20k miles...if you are lucky!! Good job Performance Bearings!!

 

[RichP]

Wow....just wow...motor arrived this afternoon (Wednesday) I only sent it on Monday. It’s fitted and test ride complete. You just can’t get better service than that. I can see the enhanced water seals on each side of the crank, which should definitely keep the winter crud out.

A massive thanks to @Bearing Man for the exceptional service especially at this time of year!

 

[ecotrials]

I have a question that I posed to both Brose and to Specialized.
Having read a thread early in 2020 regarding Brose motor failures that attributed a lot of issues to motor abuse leading to overheating,
I asked at what motor temperature should I stop requesting assistance in order to protect the motor from overheating.
One of the responses in that thread indicated they thought that the aluminum frame bikes seemed to have less problems than the carbon fiber frames, the thought being that the aluminum frame wicked the heat away from the motor far better than the CF frame.
Brose responded, but indicated I should ask Specialized. Specialized has not responded in any way, which I find EXREMELY annoying.
I am only trying to protect my investment. You would think they would be happy to share some information that would would help me do just that. Actually, based on that thread, I changed my mind about which frame to get, and opted for the 2021 Comp.
I track both motor and battery temps on the BLEvo app. And kudos to Paulo for such a great enhancement to the Specialized ebikes.
In fact, after studying up on BLEvo and deciding that was a great toll to have in the toolkit, plus my ancient Rockhopper Comp (circa 1989) still providing good service (well, as good as you could expect from a 31 year old bike), I stopped even considering any other bike.

SO... Can ANYONE provide some guidance as to what temperature I should endeavor to stay under? Again, from the thread, it seems that many folks who went through more than one motor had a similar riding style. Crank up the assist, blast your way around the trails. My personal opinion is that Specialized set too high a temperature before dialing back assistance due to overheating. However, this is not CONFIRMED in any way, just my suspicion. Belt issues and sprag clutch seem to be the primary casualties.

This is not to say there aren't other things that can and do go wrong. Pictures from this thread show the effects of water and mud creeping into the motor with deleterious results. Better seals might be a great investment for Specialized to pursue for overall motor longevity. But I would love to get an idea of the recommended temperature range for maximum longevity.

My riding style is kind of the opposite of cranking away in turbo whenever possible. I ride with minimal assistance. Which means I am always in first gear before I turn on assistance. I have eco set to 15-50% assistance. There is minimal temperature rise with this configuration, with the motor hardly ever getting over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. The assistance from the motor hardly ever exceeds my input (in watts) and every ride I contribute more than the motor. I switch to trail when the going gets a little too tough on my ancient legs (70). Trail is set to 65-85%. The motor is definitely working harder, and I see watts from the motor anywhere from 350 to perhaps 600 watts. Turbo is set to 100-100% and is reserved for only the steepest pitches, typically gradients over 30%. For reference, I can usually handle long stretches of up to 10% gradient without assistance, almost invariably shift eco above 15% gradient unless it is just a short stretch and eco handles gradients typically up to 25-30%. On one particular hill (one of very few in a very hilly park) I have yet to be able to ride the ascent. It looks like the gradient might be 38% or so, but the terrain has been thick dust. So what typically happens is I spin the rear wheel at some point, and since I'm only travelling at 1.5 to 2 mph, that means the immediate loss of forward momentum, and I put a foot down. From there I have to push for a few yards before walk mode kicks in, and then the rear wheel is spinning faster than I can walk. Which reminds me, I need to ask Paulo if walk mode could be tied to assistance level, so that in eco it might walk at 2mph, trail at 3mph, and turbo at 4mph (or better yet, make the speed configurable for each assistance level).

The max motor temp I have seen thus far is around 120 degrees F, so I believe I am well below any maximum. But I still want to know what Specialized recommends.

Any assistance to answering this question is GREATLY APPRECIATED.

I absolutely love my Spruce Turbo Levo Comp. Having such a great time, this bike has completely transformed my ability to get around the nearby park. I am no longer hesitant to try different trails, fairly confidant that I will not get stuck and have to push the bike (at least not any great distance). I am running out of new trails to explore. There are many single tracks I haven't ventured out on, and I typically ride alone. That, coupled with my less than sterling bike handling skills, keeps me a bit cautious. I asked some riders that I met out on the trails about a couple of single tracks and was deterred by their enthusiastic response about how great one in particular was, with a couple of four foot drop-offs. Ahhh, yeah, not my cup of tea. But as they say, to each their own.

Thanx everyone for any information, Paul

 

[RichP]

I have a question that I posed to both Brose and to Specialized.
Having read a thread early in 2020 regarding Brose motor failures that attributed a lot of issues to motor abuse leading to overheating,
I asked at what motor temperature should I stop requesting assistance in order to protect the motor from overheating.
One of the responses in that thread indicated they thought that the aluminum frame bikes seemed to have less problems than the carbon fiber frames, the thought being that the aluminum frame wicked the heat away from the motor far better than the CF frame.
Brose responded, but indicated I should ask Specialized. Specialized has not responded in any way, which I find EXREMELY annoying.
I am only trying to protect my investment. You would think they would be happy to share some information that would would help me do just that. Actually, based on that thread, I changed my mind about which frame to get, and opted for the 2021 Comp.
I track both motor and battery temps on the BLEvo app. And kudos to Paulo for such a great enhancement to the Specialized ebikes.
In fact, after studying up on BLEvo and deciding that was a great toll to have in the toolkit, plus my ancient Rockhopper Comp (circa 1989) still providing good service (well, as good as you could expect from a 31 year old bike), I stopped even considering any other bike.

SO... Can ANYONE provide some guidance as to what temperature I should endeavor to stay under? Again, from the thread, it seems that many folks who went through more than one motor had a similar riding style. Crank up the assist, blast your way around the trails. My personal opinion is that Specialized set too high a temperature before dialing back assistance due to overheating. However, this is not CONFIRMED in any way, just my suspicion. Belt issues and sprag clutch seem to be the primary casualties.

This is not to say there aren't other things that can and do go wrong. Pictures from this thread show the effects of water and mud creeping into the motor with deleterious results. Better seals might be a great investment for Specialized to pursue for overall motor longevity. But I would love to get an idea of the recommended temperature range for maximum longevity.

My riding style is kind of the opposite of cranking away in turbo whenever possible. I ride with minimal assistance. Which means I am always in first gear before I turn on assistance. I have eco set to 15-50% assistance. There is minimal temperature rise with this configuration, with the motor hardly ever getting over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. The assistance from the motor hardly ever exceeds my input (in watts) and every ride I contribute more than the motor. I switch to trail when the going gets a little too tough on my ancient legs (70). Trail is set to 65-85%. The motor is definitely working harder, and I see watts from the motor anywhere from 350 to perhaps 600 watts. Turbo is set to 100-100% and is reserved for only the steepest pitches, typically gradients over 30%. For reference, I can usually handle long stretches of up to 10% gradient without assistance, almost invariably shift eco above 15% gradient unless it is just a short stretch and eco handles gradients typically up to 25-30%. On one particular hill (one of very few in a very hilly park) I have yet to be able to ride the ascent. It looks like the gradient might be 38% or so, but the terrain has been thick dust. So what typically happens is I spin the rear wheel at some point, and since I'm only travelling at 1.5 to 2 mph, that means the immediate loss of forward momentum, and I put a foot down. From there I have to push for a few yards before walk mode kicks in, and then the rear wheel is spinning faster than I can walk. Which reminds me, I need to ask Paulo if walk mode could be tied to assistance level, so that in eco it might walk at 2mph, trail at 3mph, and turbo at 4mph (or better yet, make the speed configurable for each assistance level).

The max motor temp I have seen thus far is around 120 degrees F, so I believe I am well below any maximum. But I still want to know what Specialized recommends.

Any assistance to answering this question is GREATLY APPRECIATED.

I absolutely love my Spruce Turbo Levo Comp. Having such a great time, this bike has completely transformed my ability to get around the nearby park. I am no longer hesitant to try different trails, fairly confidant that I will not get stuck and have to push the bike (at least not any great distance). I am running out of new trails to explore. There are many single tracks I haven't ventured out on, and I typically ride alone. That, coupled with my less than sterling bike handling skills, keeps me a bit cautious. I asked some riders that I met out on the trails about a couple of single tracks and was deterred by their enthusiastic response about how great one in particular was, with a couple of four foot drop-offs. Ahhh, yeah, not my cup of tea. But as they say, to each their own.

Thanx everyone for any information, Paul

Hey Paul, I’ve got to admit that I don’t keep track of the motor temperature. I ride a similar style to you, some rides I’ve ridden with the motor switched off for the entire ride. Usually though I’m using BLEvo riding in eco between 8 and 24% assistance. Maybe it’s because I ride like this that the motor has lasted as long as it has!
Good luck, and enjoy the ride!

 

[Mikerb]

I do not skimp on assistance from the motor as required.........no point having it if you dont use it!! In the UK we rarely ride in the sort of temperatures you experience so I do not give a second thought to motor temperature but I do make sure the motor is always working efficiently and that means using the optimum gearing and cadence. That also prevents premature damage to the non electric elements of the drivetrain. It is relatively easy to hear when the motor is spinning freely and when it is working hard and I would suggest keeping the motor spinning freely will prevent heat build up and meanwhile you have full access to motor assist.
If however you are riding midday in 30c + temperatures it make eminent sense to take a break and let things cool down...preferably in some shade...and it is not just the motor that might be getting a tad warm in those sort of temperatures!!

 

[bertschb]

The max motor temp I have seen thus far is around 120 degrees F, so I believe I am well below any maximum. But I still want to know what Specialized recommends.

I have no idea what Specialized recommends.

But, I did a lot of riding this fall with outside temps near 38C (100F). My rides involve a lot of climbing in turbo mode and max motor temps were routinely 71C (160F) and as high as 77C (170F) a few times. The first time I saw those temps in Blevo I freaked out but the bike was working fine and others have reported similar temps. Outside temps have since cooled to around 21C (70F) and max motor temps are now about 60C (140F). This makes sense as the max motor temps dropped by the same amount as the ambient temps. I ride the same route every day so my numbers are more or less apples to apples comparisons.

 

[chrismechmaster]

Nearly 5000 miles that’s good to hear I would be happy with that

 

[brizi2003]

Wow....just wow...motor arrived this afternoon (Wednesday) I only sent it on Monday. It’s fitted and test ride complete. You just can’t get better service than that. I can see the enhanced water seals on each side of the crank, which should definitely keep the winter crud out.

View attachment 47359 View attachment 47360

A massive thanks to @Bearing Man for the exceptional service especially at this time of year!

That's excellent service. I think @Bearing Man will be getting a lot busier in the future as Specialized's earlier bike sales result in more bikes coming out of their warranty period. I've just had the 3rd motor fitted to my Kenevo 2019 model under warranty with just less than 3000 miles in total. Now my warranty has expired I'll definitely be using their services when my new motor starts giving me trouble.

 

[grantini]

I can’t see what difference the frame material will make. In either case the material surrounding the motor is plastic.