2020 EMTBs Overpriced?

[Bravestarr]

Is the pricing of EMTBs is the classic "price as high as the customer will pay". A Triumph Speed Triple with an 800cc engine has a starting price of £8100. Have a look at the volume of base material, the amount of parts, the technology, the size and spec of tyres, the suspension volume and size etc, etc and compare them with the materials used in your MTB. The prices of our EMTBs are unjustifiable in real terms.

Yes you say but our MTB manufacturers are just small companies and they have no economy of scale. In 2018 Specialised had a turnover of $685M vs Triumphs £325M.
Then consider that lots of the parts on your MTB are not developed by the manufacturer at all but are simply bought in and bolted on and thus the development costs are further reduced.
I appreciate that my argument is fairly simplistic in that I am not looking at the 100s of little variables but I'd conclude that in general EMTBs are very overpriced.
Where can you justify the huge hike in prices for the likes of the 2020 Merida 160 over the price of the 2019 bike?
As mountain bikers we are amongst the worst at falling for the "shiny, shiny" bullshit of carbon and kashima. Again looking at the motorcycle world; in the 2019 Isle of Man TT the Superstock fastest lap was 134 mph average in 16:50 (for a standard £15k road bike on standard rd tyres) vs the Superbike fastest lap of 135 mph average in 16:42 on a £70K very heavily modified bike on race tyres. 8 seconds quicker over 37.5 miles for 4 times the cost.....
How much quicker will the 2020 Merida be down your favourite run compared to the 2019 bike for the 25% hike in costs?
"Yes but it looks great!" see, we get what we deserve!

 

[stiv674]

I guess they charge that much because they can.

There will always be someone willing to pay a lot of money for the best of a particular item.

 

[James_MTB]

Yes, they are overpriced.

I'm hoping as the competition grows the price comes down.

 

[Apples]

‘‘Tis the same with car’s ,some are over a million pounds , but will still get you to Aldi just the same but using more fuel and you can’t get f**k all in the boot ( if it even has one )
First world problems , think of the starving children !

 

[p060064h]

I don't think it's to bad to be honest.
My S-Works road bike cost 6k that ain't got a motor a battery or suspension.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Bravestarr I assume that you will be voting with your wallet by not buying any new emtbs for several years until the manufacturers come to their senses!

I wish I could follow your example, but I'm weak.

 

[miPbiP]

business is business, they're companies not charities, they'll charge what they think the market can bear.

for perspective I've plenty of mates on £5k plus bio powered MTBs.

 

[Mikerb]

Pricing is a mix of what the market will pay and competitive edge...assuming each delivers a net margin. Motorcycle/car prices are largely determined by competition and that competition includes the far east/Asian manufacturers. E bikes....even e mtbs are already attracting attention from that quarter. There is already something of a price war between direct sales brands and those that still use a dealer network. The Calibre Bossnut was one example of a low price mtb that performed as well as bikes 3 times its price. Frame design is now well understood, ally tube extrusion expertise is available in low cost Chinese and Taiwanese factories, components are 3rd party and OEM so price depends on volume. The same could be said about panasonic batteries and Brose or Bosch motors so everything is in place for new lower priced market entrants. The key differentiator for e bikes may ultimately be software rather than hardware.....some big players there!

 

[Jamsxr]

Just buy an outgoing model at a discounted price, the same will happen every year/model update.

 

[Bravestarr]

@Bravestarr I assume that you will be voting with your wallet by not buying any new emtbs for several years until the manufacturers come to their senses!

I wish I could follow your example, but I'm weak.

Me too. I've recently shelled out for my Merida 160 900. The whole pricing thing was really prompted by the thought about what real world differences will the 2020 model at almost twice the price deliver.

 

[stiv674]

I wish I had £10k to spend on an emtb, but I'd spend it on the Triumph instead

 

[Jamsxr]

Triumph is not really a fair comparison, maybe a Ducati V4R at 25k ?

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Buy what you can afford, don't moan at what you can't. Simples. The amount of people I met at the weekend at a demo that said that about ebikes. Finance is available and it's not much. If you really want one, then you can and you'll make the sacrifices.

 

[Albez]

I would never spend over 5k for a bike, not unless i won the lottery. But yeah if you can afford it then why not. Very happy atm with the bike I have.

 

[Pendo]

I agree, they are overpriced but I guess the brands need to allow for warranties - so far on my 2017 Levo I've had three batteries, one lead and one motor replaced under warranty. That would cost about half of what I paid for the bike. Granted that Specialized can claim back from Brose and the battery manufacturers but there would still be losses involved.
Hopefully more manufacturers will cause the prices to stabilize / reduce. When I buy the next bike, I will look for the run out models at a discount.

 

[Pdoz]

10 k for the latest and greatest carbon fibre top spec emtb? Bargain compared to a high spec motorbike - especially when you consider running costs. Isn't it awesome to have these choices?

There's a guzzi sitting in my shed that has hardly been ridden since I bought my emtb. Annual insurance / rego / service costs would easily buy a very capable 2019 emtb, and if I sold the guzzi
I could justify a shed to make Gary jealous. As an estimate, I've lost about $5 k per year in just depreciation on motorbikes every year for the last 35 ....I'd be rich if I got hooked on mtb riding instead!

Yesterday I fitted a new bashplate on my full e pro - a huge $12 oz !! My guzzi bashplate cost $500. New dropper post lever and cable is a whopping $37 - a clutch lever for my guzzi is oner $100. I got 100 hours of joy out of the $90 tyre - that's cost me 10 times that on the guzzi. We whinge about chains - yet they only really cost 50 c an hour - try keeping up with chains ( or tyres) on a ktm dirt bike !!!

Yesterday I spent 4 hours riding as fast as I could on the giant - not a single speeding fine, no loss of license, not even a moment of fear from spotting blue uniforms...... I can't remember the last time I got that buzz from really pushing the limits on a motorbike (outside of a racing track ) - nowadays I'm so busy watching my mirrors that the ride is barely enjoyable.

Ps I'd still buy a 2019 merida instead of 2020 - mostly because I don't trust carbon fibre

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

An MTB industry contact explained EMTB bike prices to me in simple terms (I'm a simple people).

Manufacturers manage their supply-chain in a way that they can balance the risk of neither over or under-producing the number of bikes that will be bought by the end-user. Under supply, you miss out on sales and damage your brand by not having the product on shelves or making consumer wait too long, oversupply and you're stuck with bikes that are costly to store and will likely be sold at a loss. It's impossible to predict demand with 100% accuracy but the main players get it within +/-3% year on year, which is actually pretty amazing! Since MTB sales were relatively predictable, the manufacturing and supply lines run very lean with low tolerances to make drastic increases or decreases to volumes.

When the EMTB market emerged or "exploded", manufacturers couldn't suddenly open a new parallel production line or push existing lines beyond their capacity. So to make it worth their while and offset the risk of cannibalizing their core business, they jack up the price and if people still buy the EMTB's then they've covered the majority of their costs while they address the infrastructure deficits. For the big bike manufacturers, currently, EMTB's often make a total net loss. Why? they now have to renegotiate with component suppliers who will look to make them pay a premium, they now have to outsource more manufacturing which is expensive, higher recall and RMA rates, greenfield R&D and QA/QC compliance-related costs.

It's only been in the last few years the ETMB market has stabilized and manufacturers are setting up their independent EMTB lines instead of bolting motors onto their existing range. The resulting competition with result in lower prices (thank fuck!) and better bikes!

you gotta love free-market economics!

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

10 k for the latest and greatest carbon fibre top spec emtb? Bargain compared to a high spec motorbike - especially when you consider running costs. Isn't it awesome to have these choices?

There's a guzzi sitting in my shed that has hardly been ridden since I bought my emtb. Annual insurance / rego / service costs would easily buy a very capable 2019 emtb, and if I sold the guzzi
I could justify a shed to make Gary jealous. As an estimate, I've lost about $5 k per year in just depreciation on motorbikes every year for the last 35 ....I'd be rich if I got hooked on mtb riding instead!

Yesterday I fitted a new bashplate on my full e pro - a huge $12 oz !! My guzzi bashplate cost $500. New dropper post lever and cable is a whopping $37 - a clutch lever for my guzzi is oner $100. I got 100 hours of joy out of the $90 tyre - that's cost me 10 times that on the guzzi. We whinge about chains - yet they only really cost 50 c an hour - try keeping up with chains ( or tyres) on a ktm dirt bike !!!

Yesterday I spent 4 hours riding as fast as I could on the giant - not a single speeding fine, no loss of license, not even a moment of fear from spotting blue uniforms...... I can't remember the last time I got that buzz from really pushing the limits on a motorbike (outside of a racing track ) - nowadays I'm so busy watching my mirrors that the ride is barely enjoyable.

Ps I'd still buy a 2019 merida instead of 2020 - mostly because I don't trust carbon fibre

I used to be a fully sponsored motocross racer for about 3 years. You should have seen the costs!! 2-3stock CRF450rs a year ($12,000 each). all of which were kitted with aftermarket suspension ($3000), exhaust ($1200), tuned ($500-1300), new wheels ($1200) and aftermarket bars, triple clamps, graphics ($500-1000). Then the ongoing cost of top end rebuild ($300) every 30 hours running or 20 racing, new set of tires every other week ($200), 3-4 chain sprocket combos ($300) a year and clutches ever a couple of races ($200). The fuel we used had to be ordered from the states in 20l increments, normal pump fuel ran like shite because was tuned for the hi-octane. Oh then the travel and transport costs. My team budgeted for $140k a year for me alone and we blew that every year and I was a mid-pack racer at best

 

[Motoride]

Ps I'd still buy a 2019 merida instead of 2020 - mostly because I don't trust carbon fibre[/QUOTE]

Good comparison on motorcycles cost vs bicycle as I own a few, By the way the Pivot Shuttle has 10 year warranty on carbon fiber frames

 

[R120]

Some I think are overpriced, others not - I created a thread the other day about the rise of the 10k EMTB.

At that price point you have the likes of the S Works, the Shuttle, Merida 10k, and a few others, inlcuding the new KTM Machina Sonic.

now the bigger battery on the S-Works used to be a big point of difference over other bikes, but with the new Bosch bikes having a 630wh battery it isn't so relevant any more.

The new KTM has 180mm of travel via RS Lyrik Ulitmae forks and a RS Duper Deluxe Ultimate coil shock, carbon everything, 630wh battery, full SRAM wireless AXS groupset including the dropper post. Whilst a crazy price, its actually very good value when compared to the other bikes at this price point, given the spec I think the price is actually justifiable, as its not much more than some normal bikes with similar spec.

Othe bikes like the Pivot Shuttle and Merida 10K, I just cant see the value in paying anything like that given the spec on them, especially when plenty of other bikes out there with bette or similar specs for the price.

I get eh Pivot is a great bike to ride, look at, and no doubt own, but you really are paying for the name with it.

 

[Mikerb]

Ps I'd still buy a 2019 merida instead of 2020 - mostly because I don't trust carbon fibre

Good comparison on motorcycles cost vs bicycle as I own a few, By the way the Pivot Shuttle has 10 year warranty on carbon fiber frames[/QUOTE]
Warranty against faulty manufacture....but the more likely cause of any failure is damage.

 

[Tamas]

I understand some (or many) will pay 10k for an e-bike but for me, it is just prohibitive no matter how much money I have. I just can't see how the 10k new Merida is 2x better than my Meta Power as costs twice as much. Same engine, battery capacity, suspension components, brakes... only carbon frame and carbon wheelset but they are irrelevant to me on an e-mtb.

 

[Bravestarr]

I understand some (or many) will pay 10k for an e-bike but for me, it is just prohibitive no matter how much money I have. I just can't see how the 10k new Merida is 2x better than my Meta Power as costs twice as much. Same engine, battery capacity, suspension components, brakes... only carbon frame and carbon wheelset but they are irrelevant to me on an e-mtb.

That kind of sums up my point.

 

[miPbiP]

Let's bear in mind that ultimately these things are just toys, and a good number of people in this world have to survive on a handful of dollars a day.

Anyone who can afford one is lucky.

 

[paquo]

Around here there are not too many places nearby to ride a moto offroad. The emtb otoh i can blend in and ride a bunch of places including the city park so that's gotta be worth something.

 

[Lewis]

Look at tv prices they start high as low volume then get cheaper

 

[33red]

A 6,000$ Ebike is worth around 4,800$. Some are willing to pay the premium for the **freshnesh**. Just wait some months. Now since there are none used available they are gouging and to continue to do that the battery get bigger, they will advertise less noise. Will you get your money back when they say your bike is pure crap?

 

[Zimmerframe]

By the way the Pivot Shuttle has 10 year warranty on carbon fiber frames

Warranty against faulty manufacture....but the more likely cause of any failure is damage.[/QUOTE]

As I made a joke on another thread about e-bike belt drives being guaranteed for 100,000 miles or three months, which ever comes first - a lot of these things are marketing. The profit margin is high enough that they can swap a few if needs be, and argue the rest as accidental damage ... this carbon frame is guaranteed against rust for 10 years .. but if they all start popping apart in 5 years because of bad layering , wrong resin, crap vacuuming pre-kiln .. will they care ? or respond ? or will most be in a skip anyway as everyone has moved on ?

Ultimately, I'm only agreeing with all of you and having a waffle on !

 

[Tamas]

Look at tv prices they start high as low volume then get cheaper

It looks different to me... ebikes are getting more popular (selling more) so they can raise the prices..
in my opinion, the last couple of years manufacturers were ‘testing waters’ so the prices were reasonable. Now,, they are pushing the prices to see how much the market is willing to pay

 

[steve_sordy]

From the research I did, emtbs are between £1200 and £1500 more expensive than the full suss that I would have bought normally. Talking the normal rrp here. I'm assuming that money pays for the battery, the motor and the control systems, the stronger frame, and in my case the bigger wheels.