2019 Turbo Levo S work Brose Mag S failure

[High Rock Ruti]

Help! Second motor failure in less than 500 total miles

Same symptoms twice, belt starts to slip on the splines between motor and crank spindle and drive loss within a few seconds. Specialized replaced the first motor not problem bike in shop waiting to hear. I had an original 2016 Turbo Levo expert which had an undiagnosable symptom of intermittent power when battery was below 60-40% of charge. Specialized gave me a refund I discovered only afterwards that there was a known defect with the original motor, I hope I'm not headed down the same road.

By contrast the Pivot Shuttle has a the Shimano drive with nearly two thousand miles works great.

That said the Turbo Levo is a technical riding monster clear sections that are hit or miss on the shuttle, more power, bigger wheels yeah baby!

High Rock Ruti

 

[hannu]

I have the same problem in my 2018 Levo. First the belt started slipping just a little occasionally under heavy pushing, but now it's all loose and can only handle very soft pedalling without continuous slipping. It will be covered by the warranty, but I've been waiting for the new motor to arrive already over a month... Quite annoying especially as the bike only had around 1200km (~750 miles) in the clock once this started. Makes me wonder if I should swap my bike before the new motor (when it arrives some day) gets this mileage...

 

[Mikerb]

how do you know it was the belt slipping? The LBS is not allowed to strip the motor so they would not know. If the motor was returned to Specialized worse case they would replace the belt and/or belt tensioner. The same system is used for power steering units made by Brose and using similar design techniques so it is a proven system. There is however a decoupling/clutch system which means the motor is not driven by the crank when over the set max speed or if the motor is switched off. A dirty speed sensor could intermittently tell the motor the speed was zero and that would decouple the motor...…...….sounds much more likely to me than a belt problem. A faulty belt or tensioning system would be an endemic design fault affecting everyone.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

High Rock Ruti
August 19, 2019

My 2019 turbo levo lost drive twice less than 500 total miles once at 263 miles second time at 190 miles. The symptom was the same both times, "it feels like the belt splines slipping on motor and crank splines". There is no way to know the motors are sealed not to be opened under threat of voiding warranty. My bike has been down almost a month now. Specialized has said motors available between the 18th and 24th. I spoke to the North American rep for Brose about, the failures and the lack of motors evidently I'm the only person it's happened too.........? My LBS shop foreman said that during class for electric bike they made a big deal about not trying to repair the belts that the repairs can ONLY be done by authorized personnel.
He said he was suspicious immediately that Specialized knew something that they weren't interested in the public or their vendors knowing about.

Stay Tuned

 

[hannu]

how do you know it was the belt slipping? The LBS is not allowed to strip the motor so they would not know. If the motor was returned to Specialized worse case they would replace the belt and/or belt tensioner. The same system is used for power steering units made by Brose and using similar design techniques so it is a proven system. There is however a decoupling/clutch system which means the motor is not driven by the crank when over the set max speed or if the motor is switched off. A dirty speed sensor could intermittently tell the motor the speed was zero and that would decouple the motor...…...….sounds much more likely to me than a belt problem. A faulty belt or tensioning system would be an endemic design fault affecting everyone.

The LBS diagnosed it to be the belt and said they've seen similar cases earlier. Something is slipping inside the motor certainly, if it's caused by the belt or clutch or whatever, I can't of course myself tell for sure. It's definitely nothing to do with the speed sensor as it works normally and it's not losing the power the same way. Now when "it" has become very loose I can just slip the cranks with a small effort half a round while the bike is static.

 

[Mikerb]

So the cranks rotate without rotating the chainwheel. Nothing to do with the belt then since that merely connects the electric motor to the transfer gear. If the cranks turn without turning the chainwheel it is that connection that is faulty. If the chainwheel rotates without rotating the rear wheel then of course it is a cassette/freehub problem.

 

[hannu]

So the cranks rotate without rotating the chainwheel. Nothing to do with the belt then since that merely connects the electric motor to the transfer gear. If the cranks turn without turning the chainwheel it is that connection that is faulty. If the chainwheel rotates without rotating the rear wheel then of course it is a cassette/freehub problem.

Yes, the cranks rotate but the chainwheel doesn't. So definitely can be something else than the belt also, as said I don't have enough knowledge to diagnose that. Do you know how that "connection" works there? Also noticed that rotating the cranks backwards is now bit sticky and the chainwheel tries to rotate along. Tested also that the slipping happens as well when the bike is turned off.

Nice to know what's wrong in the motor, but of course it doesn't change the fact that the bike is unusable and it seem to take ages to get it fixed by Specialized.

 

[Mikerb]

I appreciate that and am not trying to diminish the that you have a problem. I am just trying to get at the likely root cause so everyone is better informed what can go wrong and MAYBE therefore identify what causes the failure.
So we know rotating the crank anti clockwise does not rotate the chainwheel. That means there is a freehub arrangement in the motor. In addition when rotating the cranks clockwise the freehub will be engaged but the connection between the freehub /chainwheel and transfer gear has a clutch mechanism so that it in turn is not clnnected via the belt to the motor gear when the motor is off or the speed sensor disengages it. The way you describe your problem therefore sounds like the freehub or possibly the bearings are broken/worn or partly siezed. I do not know what freehub system is used though. It could be a pall system like a rear hub or a meshed gear.

 

[hannu]

I appreciate that and am not trying to diminish the that you have a problem. I am just trying to get at the likely root cause so everyone is better informed what can go wrong and MAYBE therefore identify what causes the failure.
So we know rotating the crank anti clockwise does not rotate the chainwheel. That means there is a freehub arrangement in the motor. In addition when rotating the cranks clockwise the freehub will be engaged but the connection between the freehub /chainwheel and transfer gear has a clutch mechanism so that it in turn is not clnnected via the belt to the motor gear when the motor is off or the speed sensor disengages it. The way you describe your problem therefore sounds like the freehub or possibly the bearings are broken/worn or partly siezed. I do not know what freehub system is used though. It could be a pall system like a rear hub or a meshed gear.

Yeah that would makes sense, thanks for rationalising it! I hope I would get some more info what was actually wrong with the motor when it's taken back to Specialized eventually, but probably they won't share any info.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

High Rock Ruti

Update

Brose S Mag Two motor failures in less than 500 total miles from new

Got a call from my LBS after they were contacted by Specialized. Specialized is sending a brand new bike to the LBS to remove the motor and install in my bike. The motors that were in transit, have "GOTTEN LOST"!

Don't you just hate misplacing your cargo container, it must be around here somewhere.....?

S***T happens, but this is hard to believe, first no motors, now lost motors, how about defective motors and a quiet recall?

 

[Rich the gasman]

My motor just packed in today, had to get rescued . Feels like belt is slipping. Was just on a flat fire road as well, had no noise from anything, just suddenly went .

 

[Thewootts]

I'll jump in here as well, motor number 3 for me now.. it's the sprag style clutch that is failing and causing this issue ?

 

[Mikerb]

Seems to me premature wear of a sprag clutch is likely due to excessive torque being applied to the crank....( low motor support mode/ too high a gear) and potentially violent pressure against the sprags as in landing hard from a jump. Unlike the freehub in the back wheel the freehub/sprag bearing in the motor has no chain or derailleur to absorb the shock.

 

[hannu]

Seems to me premature wear of a sprag clutch is likely due to excessive torque being applied to the crank....( low motor support mode/ too high a gear) and potentially violent pressure against the sprags as in landing hard from a jump. Unlike the freehub in the back wheel the freehub/sprag bearing in the motor has no chain or derailleur to absorb the shock.

No idea if it has anything to do with this, but the first times I noticed the slipping happening in my motor was when I had high gear and high motor support. Dropping in to a downhill trail and having the high gear already on while pedalling heavily. But nothing too abnormally aggressive, just normal acceleration in such scenario.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Sauser got a motor failure on the tour du mont blanc on his sWorks, as did EGMBN presentator.

 

[DetailsMonster]

My motor failed 2 weeks ago. The failure and sound (buzz of splines on hard rubber) was indicative of a belt failure. The motor is being replaced. 2019 Levo with only about 700km :-(.
I know there are belt failures; another friend with the new motor opened it up and the belt was shredded.

 

[Mikerb]

The belt was more likely a victim rather than a cause. The most likely cause was a sticky sprag bearing.

 

[DetailsMonster]

The belt was more likely a victim rather than a cause. The most likely cause was a sticky sprag bearing.

You may be right. It will be interesting to see how it goes with my friend who only replaced the belt.

 

[Mikerb]

I would be a little suspicious of that! The only other reason I can see for a belt failure would be if the tensioner unscrewed allowing the belt to "slap" and ultimately slip.

 

[DetailsMonster]

Finally got my bike back. The replacement motor has a different chain line as the chain ring is about 2mm closer to the motor. This makes the chain guide rub and it looks like it just will not work anymore. Anyone else have this issue? My shop said that they had the same problem with another bike that had the motor replaced.

 

[Mikerb]

The motor has not changed so maybe spacers/washers were left out on the motor fixing bolts or the spider is not fully engaged on its taper???......and maybe they made the same mistake on the other motor replacement that had the same problem!!

 

[dar23]

I thought id jump onboard as tonight, with no hint of a build up, the Brose drive fitted to my MY19 Sworks Levo failed.
Frequency of failure increasing, proportional to the level of power assistance. Was able to nurse home with zero assistance.
Finding a complete loss of crank pedalling resistance, without warning. As a non ebike crank spins with no chain fitted.
Man handling the Levo, I found going backwards to be a no no. The rear wheel behaves as if the brake is on, but developed from the drive.

Up till now (3400 miles) though the Brose drive has been faultless - TCU of course isn't included with that.

Phone call in the morning to dealers inevitable, should I be worried do you think?

 

[DetailsMonster]

I thought id jump onboard as tonight, with no hint of a build up, the Brose drive fitted to my MY19 Sworks Levo failed.
Frequency of failure increasing, proportional to the level of power assistance. Was able to nurse home with zero assistance.
Finding a complete loss of crank pedalling resistance, without warning. As a non ebike crank spins with no chain fitted.
Man handling the Levo, I found going backwards to be a no no. The rear wheel behaves as if the brake is on, but developed from the drive.

Up till now (3400 miles) though the Brose drive has been faultless - TCU of course isn't included with that.

Phone call in the morning to dealers inevitable, should I be worried do you think?

Mine had the same behaviour; no pedaling resistance but wheel jammed by motor if moved backwards. Great you got 3400 miles out of it.

 

[Captain45]

Is specialized going to provide an extended warranty on all these motor issues? I'll be honest I'm starting to get a bit nervous owning mine when the warranty is about up

 

[lumpy]

Is specialized going to provide an extended warranty on all these motor issues? I'll be honest I'm starting to get a bit nervous owning mine when the warranty is about up

Hopefully they'll continue to take care of us, but I'll consider buying a second motor as a back up if I need to

 

[Marcelfacd]

Is specialized going to provide an extended warranty on all these motor issues? I'll be honest I'm starting to get a bit nervous owning mine when the warranty is about up

Dont know about your region but here in Holland we get a 5 year guarantee one all electronics and 2 years on the battery.....trustworthy enough for me

 

[paquo]

Phone call in the morning to dealers inevitable, should I be worried do you think?

The motor on my bike let go at 2500 miles. I am glad it did before the 2 year warranty is up. It sounds like the early motors were crap and the new one is definitely quieter so i am thinking the problems may have been fixed.

 

[DetailsMonster]

The motor on my bike let go at 2500 miles. I am glad it did before the 2 year warranty is up. It sounds like the early motors were crap and the new one is definitely quieter so i am thinking the problems may have been fixed.

Unfortunately, this thread is relating to the new "Brose Mag S" motor. My bike was only 7 months old with about 700km when the motor failed. I will add though, that given the number of Levo's sold the failures may be a small percentage.

 

[Captain45]

Unfortunately, this thread is relating to the new "Brose Mag S" motor. My bike was only 7 months old with about 700km when the motor failed. I will add though, that given the number of Levo's sold the failures may be a small percentage.

I'd like to see some hard numbers, so far from multiple online sources. Fb groups, emtb forums etc are showing about a 30% failure rate. Unacceptable imo.

 

[etoni]

i ride one yaer and have 3.motor. 1.sound 2.BB