2019 Flyon Closer Look

[Scoobaru]

I don't really get the point of a more powerful and heavy motor for a pedal assist bike that is limited to 15mph. I can't imagine any climb that's not possible with a 90nm Brose bike that will be with a 120nm Flyon *using the same tyres*. If have to get off for a climb then I also need to push/carry it up large rocks which the extra weight wouldn't help. Downhill or Enduro trails, which is 90% of what I care about riding, I am usually going faster than 15mph so the motor torque is irrelevant.

A de-restricted Flyon on the other hand would be an entirely different story, but no warranty.

 

[eebit]

I don't really get the point of a more powerful and heavy motor for a pedal assist bike that is limited to 15mph. I can't imagine any climb that's not possible with a 90nm Brose bike that will be with a 120nm Flyon *using the same tyres*. If have to get off for a climb then I also need to push/carry it up large rocks which the extra weight wouldn't help. Downhill or Enduro trails, which is 90% of what I care about riding, I am usually going faster than 15mph so the motor torque is irrelevant.

A de-restricted Flyon on the other hand would be an entirely different story, but no warranty.

You can make steeper climbs on it than on other bikes, some of the ones on my local trail Me and my friends never managed on any other bike. Also uphill in general on steeper trails you can average closer to 25km/h than the 14 km/ you normally reach on other systems. Everywhere else’s it’s no advantage really, although it does accelerate faster out of corners when you pedal. Horses for courses and all that.

 

[Scoobaru]

You can make steeper climbs on it than on other bikes, some of the ones on my local trail Me and my friends never managed on any other bike.
Also uphill in general on steeper trails you can average closer to 25km/h than the 14 km/ you normally reach on other systems. Everywhere else’s it’s no advantage really, although it does accelerate faster out of corners when you pedal. Horses for courses and all that.

I guess a lot depends on what kind of trails you ride. The vast majority I use have uphill specific routes that were designed for non-Emtb use and are pretty easy on any Emtb, or fire roads that are also easy.

I would much rather trade off climbing at 25kmh for more range and 14kmh. I don't use eco mode much but try to reserve Turbo for when I need it.

"Horses for courses and all that", indeed !

 

[MattyB]

I don't really get the point of a more powerful and heavy motor for a pedal assist bike that is limited to 15mph. I can't imagine any climb that's not possible with a 90nm Brose bike that will be with a 120nm Flyon *using the same tyres*. If have to get off for a climb then I also need to push/carry it up large rocks which the extra weight wouldn't help. Downhill or Enduro trails, which is 90% of what I care about riding, I am usually going faster than 15mph so the motor torque is irrelevant.

A de-restricted Flyon on the other hand would be an entirely different story, but no warranty.

Completely agree, but I still think these will be a big seller to those who want the “most powerful” ebike available. For most of us though range is far more important than maximum power, something that big heavy motor won’t help with.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I know I said something similar before, but actually the flyon offers much more than just a strong motor. The allmtn 8.0 for example has a great spec for the price:

630WH high density battery, no internal drag motor, full fox 36 elite suspension (like factory but black), 29 + 27,5 wheels, carbon frame (offset some of the motor weight), full XT with SLX etc.

In other words, it comes very close to the spec of the top range canyon spectral and with a little LBS discount, it is the same price (Different geo and weight for sure). So for me, it is not so much about the big power (nice to have though), but more the overall spec and value.

Obviously I am little worried that the weight, long wheelbase and chainstays may take some fun out if it, but I generally prefer longer bikes because they feel safer for my descents. I will let you know how I feel actualy riding the bike when it finally arrives. Obviously if I dont like the ride I will not buy it.

 

[Mabman]

And yes, we want as much detail on the FLYON as possible, after all this is a FLYON thread ??

Relevant to the info here is this bit of a historical and mechanical perspective of the motor itself.

TQ-Systems mid-drive, the German off-road hot rod

The concept has really developed since the $80,000usd Black Trail from 2010


At least Haibike have shortened the chain stays from back then and dropped a few kg's as well as around $70k....

 

[Scoobaru]

And yes, we want as much detail on the FLYON as possible, after all this is a FLYON thread ??

Here is a little nugget from Emtb Magazine app - the AllMtn 8.0 weighs 62.4 lbs / 28.3kg
That's a lot of bike !

 

[eebit]

Read the full article in the app, can DL it here: Out Now! E-MOUNTAINBIKE Issue #016 - Daddy Cool! | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[More-read-than-ride]

28kg!! Yes, I read the article yesterday with great interest because I have reserved that exact bike. Although they are impressed with the handling, I think I may have to reconsider . I thought it would be around 24kg.
However, I will reserve judgement untill the bike arrives.

 

[Andy A]

I can't read the article as its too much to download on my phone but at 28kilos that is far too heavy in my opinion!

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I wonder if the high weight is a matter of being a pre-production model they have tried?

Although certainly not light, I dont see any particularly heavy components on the list. Motor and battery are big and heavy, but not more so than bosch (Tq 3.9 kg, Bosch 4kg). I was expecting the bike to come in at 24-25kg, with its carbon frame which should save around 0,5-0.8kg.
Where is the weight coming from?

 

[R120]

Just read the article too, which isn’t really much of a review and more of a brief synopsis - irrespective of motor power 28kg is crazy, I thought it might be around the 24kg mark

 

[knut7]

I was expecting it to weigh well over 25kg, but I wasn't expecting 28+. The motor is 1kg heavier than most others, except for the Performance CX. Battery weight may have increased by 1kg+ due to dual cases and 10 more battery cells. Carbon doesn't necessarily reduce weight on emtbs, it allows for different frame shapes. Then there's the integrated lights adding a bit of weight.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Here is the article from E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine - The leading E-Mountainbike Magazine

 

[More-read-than-ride]

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I hope there is not any copyright issue posting this here as the source is clearly identified. If so, please let me know and I will delete.

 

[Cinnamon]

28 kg....no thanks for me.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Rob, do you know when you can try one and give us your feedback?

 

[MattyB]

28kg?! They will definitely need to keep some Bosch and Yamaha bikes in their range to provide a "lightweight" option...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob, do you know when you can try one and give us your feedback?

Whenever I can get my grubby hands on one I’ll bring it!

I wish that ebike -mtb article was online, desperately frustrating viewing it on a phone app.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just read the article too, which isn’t really much of a review and more of a brief synopsis - irrespective of motor power 28kg is crazy, I thought it might be around the 24kg mark

Yeah it’s not that in depth considering how big of a bike this is. I wonder if they had to scale it down due to not having a production model?

I want to know about the lights, screen, controllers, all the little details ?

 

[R120]

Whenever I can get my grubby hands on one I’ll bring it!

I wish that ebike -mtb article was online, desperately frustrating viewing it on a phone app.

They usually post up the full article on the website after the mag has been out for a while

 

[bissona]

2nd to last page is enlightening. They seem to rate it as a heavy/stable but powerful tourer.

There's a lot to like there, just need to test one to see how the weight feels. The real question will be when will they actually be available?

And is it just me, or does the copy read a little more like an advertorial than an actual review? The shots also look similar to those from the launch.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

It part of a comparison between more than 10 bikes. I do not think it is particularly biased.

 

[Polaris]

Not many people MTB alone though so you don’t want to tear up those hills too quickly. I’m already waiting around at the top of the climbs in Shimano eco mode lol

 

[MattyB]

...And is it just me, or does the copy read a little more like an advertorial than an actual review? The shots also look similar to those from the launch.

TBH the whole issue has more than a whiff of “don’t bite the hand that feeds” about it, particularly the Specialized content. Those articles have the sycophantic “this-bike-farts-perfume” air of the initial 2019 Levo publicity. That’s right - the Brose is the best motor, the Levo an utterly faultless eMTB and those lovely chaps in the Swiss glass box are baby kissing, trail slaying superheroes.

I wonder who footed the bar bill for all this test riding in Tuscany? Hmmm...

 

[Mabman]

Doesn't do well in my preferred categories

60+ lb eBikes are barely suitable for road use, ala Stromer and if you have ever tried to heft one of those you'll know what I mean, much less trail use. I still can't figure out where Haibike is going with the Flyon....

And that quick charger article was really out there. Made it sound like everyone should get a 10A smart charger and fast fill ups for all. Don't try putting more than 4A in your 18650 cells boys and girls unless you have it outside in the parrilla.

Faster charge rates are coming but only due to the advent of the higher mAh 21700 cells and even then 8A was the limit I was quoted by BMZ last spring for the LG 5A cells. Even at that you wouldn't want to make a steady habit of charging at that high a rate as it will degrade your battery faster but ok to do it once in awhile.

My Grin Cycle Satiator charger is compact, light and will charge up to 8A any chemistry and voltage from 24v to 60v so not at all like the chargers they describe in the article. I use it for my 52v 780wh 21700 Samsung 50e battery as well as my 48v 480wh Samsung 30Q and 52v 520wh undetermined mAh cell and have settings for each programmed into the unit. I only charge the 18650 cells at 4A but have a 4A and 8A setting for the 21700 battery.

 

[Bearing Man]

So, extra power, same skinny chain and sprockets! Wonder how long they last?

 

[Slowroller]

So, extra power, same skinny chain and sprockets! Wonder how long they last?

If I was going to ride a 60+lb ebike, I'd pick this one instead. Separate drivetrains and oodles of power.

LMX64 enduro EMTB

You can buy the frame only, which is nice.

 

[R120]

If I was going to ride a 60+lb ebike, I'd pick this one instead. Separate drivetrains and oodles of power.

LMX64 enduro EMTB

You can buy the frame only, which is nice.

But its not a peddlec is it, a very different kind of machine, and not road legal in the EU