2019 Flyon Closer Look

[eebit]

Does even one person actually love it?
Even if you like it aesthetically it's still stupid from a practicality point of view. (less clearance fo balls, bars/controls)

There are no practical downsides to the double kink toptube when riding the bike because the top tube still slopes down quite steeply. The bike is like nothing else I have ever ridden.

 

[eebit]

Likewise. I don't see anything particularly groundbreaking about the flyon's geometry either. infact it's just fairly on trend with trail/enduro bike geometry with the exception of their chainstay lengths.
All 2019 Haibike FLYON models with TQ motor at a glance | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
If these figures are to be believed the head angle is def in the right ballpark for me and even BB height looks to be nice and low. But they've gone the safe route of lengthening the chainstays for stability when lowering the BB would have been enough in my option for (descending anyway... where those H/As will shine). as soon as I saw the 470mm chainstaylength I lost interest in it entirely

You are making the understandable mistake of comparing the geometry and other things too much with other bikes. It has 120Nm of continuous torque. Not peak torque like other motors. It has so much power which changes the whole equation. Trying to understand this bike without riding it will not get you close to understanding it. Chainstay numbers on their own do not tell the whole story. Everybody who has tried it is always totally blown away by how powerful, balanced and refined it is, myself included.

 

[Polaris]

You are making the understandable mistake of comparing the geometry and other things too much with other bikes. It has 120Nm of continuous torque. Not peak torque like other motors. It has so much power which changes the whole equation. Trying to understand this bike without riding it will not get you close to understanding it. Chainstay numbers on their own do not tell the whole story. Everybody who has tried it is always totally blown away by how powerful, balanced and refined it is, myself included.

But that elephants leg down tube though.. just saying

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

But that elephants leg down tube though.. just saying

Having seen a couple of these in the flesh I can tell you they look stunning in my opinion... The downtube didn’t stand out to me as being out of place on the bike. I think the lines work well.

 

[eebit]

But that elephants leg down tube though.. just saying

You can wave your Stork leg at it as it flies past you on every uphill
630Wh is not small, it requires some space. The tubing is dictated by the battery size, and actually it all looks quite balanced in reality as everything is scaled up on that bike. Maybe just takes some getting used to. The FLYON bikes are to eBikes as eBikes are to regular bikes, both in looks and ePerformance.

 

[MattyB]

You are making the understandable mistake of comparing the geometry and other things too much with other bikes. It has 120Nm of continuous torque. Not peak torque like other motors. It has so much power which changes the whole equation. Trying to understand this bike without riding it will not get you close to understanding it. Chainstay numbers on their own do not tell the whole story. Everybody who has tried it is always totally blown away by how powerful, balanced and refined it is, myself included.

Hmmmm.... What you are describing is exactly what I was worried about with this bike - it's appears to be a big, heavy beast optimised to blast uphill as fast as possible. That in itself I'm sure is fun, but with chainstays that long and the high weight it has to be compromised in terms of how easy it is to raise the front wheel and pop off trailside obstacles. The fact the motor is capable of 120Nm of torque continuously is a double edged sword too - range would be severely limited at those kind of continuous powers even with the larger battery, and pulling juice from the pack at sustained high C rates will shorten battery cycle life and available capacity more quickly than in more conservative powertrains.

...The FLYON bikes are to eBikes as eBikes are to regular bikes, both in looks and ePerformance.

I personally want the experience of riding an ebike to be as close to a normal MTB as possible, just with a bit of shove on the hills when needed. All the existing motors have more than enough torque to achieve that aim. In looks and performance this seems a lot closer to the "motorbike" that ebike naysayers love to lambast as ripping up the trails and destroying the sport of mountain biking as we know it. I'm sure it does comply with the letter of the regulations where it will be released, but I can't help feeling it is pushing the boundaries to a level where it could raise further ire - if it does knee jerk reactions on access could be the result, especially in the US.

 

[Polaris]

Having seen a couple of these in the flesh I can tell you they look stunning in my opinion... The downtube didn’t stand out to me as being out of place on the bike. I think the lines work well.

Each to their own I guess, but to me it just looks like one of those weird arm wrestlers with one arm freakishly bigger than the other. Its hard enough getting my friends and work colleagues to take me seriously on an e-bike as it is, last thing I need is to now be riding a dyson to work or around the forest

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Does even one person actually love it?
Even if you like it aesthetically it's still stupid from a practicality point of view. (less clearance fo balls, bars/controls)

I really love it, even the looks of the tubes! Maybe I am wierd. Also, after studying many different bike components and setup, it seems it hits a fairly good sweetsport for emtb... By the way, I have ordered a flyon allmtn 8.0.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Likewise. I don't see anything particularly groundbreaking about the flyon's geometry either. infact it's just fairly on trend with trail/enduro bike geometry with the exception of their chainstay lengths.
All 2019 Haibike FLYON models with TQ motor at a glance | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
If these figures are to be believed the head angle is def in the right ballpark for me and even BB height looks to be nice and low. But they've gone the safe route of lengthening the chainstays for stability when lowering the BB would have been enough in my option for (descending anyway... where those H/As will shine). as soon as I saw the 470mm chainstaylength I lost interest in it entirely

I am no expert, but personally i like the long chainstays. It helps me get easier up the climbs and i find it very confortable, just like Trek powerfly 9 LT and cube 160 action team. They about around 470 if I am not mistaken and for less agile riders like myslef I think it is quite good...

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Actually, in my case the TQ motor is not about the torque. I have decided on the flyon, more because of the absence of internal resistance, which means I can pedal the bike over 25km/h, as a regular heavy bike. I like that option over voiding the warranty. also low weight and 630 battery means less battery anxiety.

After 3 posts regarding the flyon, I think I should say that I do not work for Haibike! Also, I should say I have never tried it but decided to take the risk.

 

[Polaris]

Actually, in my case the TQ motor is not about the torque. I have decided on the flyon, more because of the absence of internal resistance, which means I can pedal the bike over 25km/h, as a regular heavy bike. I like that option over voiding the warranty. also low weight and 630 battery means less battery anxiety.

After 3 posts regarding the flyon, I think I should say that I do not work for Haibike! Also, I should say I have never tried it but decided to take the risk.

I’m a little disappointed that they haven’t put a few bikes out for independent review by now seeing as though they have had production models around for a while. The only videos and snippets I have seen are by people admitting they are sponsored so I take those with a pinch of salt really. If it is really that good a bike then come on haibike, get them out there!

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I’m a little disappointed that they haven’t put a few bikes out for independent review by now seeing as though they have had production models around for a while. The only videos and snippets I have seen are by people admitting they are sponsored so I take those with a pinch of salt really. If it is really that good a bike then come on haibike, get them out there!

Totally Agree. Cant wait for Rob & co., electric mountainbike network or e-mountainbike to get their hands on one to see what they think. At least Haibike was upfront about the fact that the Mallorca outing was sponsored...

 

[More-read-than-ride]

You are making the understandable mistake of comparing the geometry and other things too much with other bikes. It has 120Nm of continuous torque. Not peak torque like other motors. It has so much power which changes the whole equation. Trying to understand this bike without riding it will not get you close to understanding it. Chainstay numbers on their own do not tell the whole story. Everybody who has tried it is always totally blown away by how powerful, balanced and refined it is, myself included.

So you actually tried it? I have ordered the allmtn 8.0 you show in the picture. Good choice?

 

[MattyB]

Totally Agree. Cant wait for Rob & co., electric mountainbike network or e-mountainbike to get their hands on one to see what they think. At least Haibike was upfront about the fact that the Mallorca outing was sponsored...

EMBN only do infomercials I'm afraid; you wont get anything other than a "this bike farts perfume" video from them, as they only show bikes from their sponsors.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

EMBN only do infomercials I'm afraid; you wont get anything other than a "this bike farts perfume" type video from them, as they only show bikes from their sponsors.

ok, I wasnt aware of that. I will be critical of their reviews from now on. In their defense I like their HQ videos on technique etc. They help me a lot as a newbie.

 

[MattyB]

ok, I wasnt aware of that. I will be critical of their reviews from now on. In their defense I like their HQ videos on technique etc. They help me a lot as a newbie.

To be clear I do enjoy much of their content, but not their stuff on sponsors bikes; their coverage of the 2019 Levo launch was particularly simpering and cringeworthy. TBF they do openly state they do not do bike reviews and they post the list of sponsors under all their vids; they never feature anything not on that list.

 

[MattyB]

PS...

Actually, in my case the TQ motor is not about the torque. I have decided on the flyon, more because of the absence of internal resistance, which means I can pedal the bike over 25km/h, as a regular heavy bike. I like that option over voiding the warranty. also low weight and 630 battery means less battery anxiety.

I am a little uncertain why you went for the Flyon based on that. Both Shimano and Brose are well known to have very low levels of resistance above the limit ; have you ridden a TQ back to back and confirmed it's better or even as good? Also I don't get the statement about low weight - these bikes will be amongst the heaviest out there when they land. That motor is a lot heavier than the latest from Brose and Shimano and the battery will be too due to it's additional capacity.

 

[eebit]

Totally Agree. Cant wait for Rob & co., electric mountainbike network or e-mountainbike to get their hands on one to see what they think. At least Haibike was upfront about the fact that the Mallorca outing was sponsored...

There are no production bikes ready yet, only prototypes, albeit very nearly finished versions. The Mallorca event was just for key dealers in the main markets to get a first feel for the new bikes.

 

[eebit]

Hmmmm.... What you are describing is exactly what I was worried about with this bike - it's appears to be a big, heavy beast optimised to blast uphill as fast as possible. That in itself I'm sure is fun, but with chainstays that long and the high weight it has to be compromised in terms of how easy it is to raise the front wheel and pop off trailside obstacles. The fact the motor is capable of 120Nm of torque continuously is a double edged sword too - range would be severely limited at those kind of continuous powers even with the larger battery, and pulling juice from the pack at sustained high C rates will shorten battery cycle life and available capacity more quickly than in more conservative powertrains.


I personally want the experience of riding an ebike to be as close to a normal MTB as possible, just with a bit of shove on the hills when needed. All the existing motors have more than enough torque to achieve that aim. In looks and performance this seems a lot closer to the "motorbike" that ebike naysayers love to lambast as ripping up the trails and destroying the sport of mountain biking as we know it. I'm sure it does comply with the letter of the regulations where it will be released, but I can't help feeling it is pushing the boundaries to a level where it could raise further ire - if it does knee jerk reactions on access could be the result, especially in the US.

If you are looking for an eMTB which feels close to a normal MTB then I would say the FLYON bikes are probably not for you. If you are open to what the market leaders idea of a cutting edge eMTB should be like then you should give it a try. I was also a little apprehensive before I tried it but 2 seconds into a ride and you are already hooked. Every other eBike feels broken after riding it. You can knock the power mode down if you like, the range is as good as that of any other eMTB.

Obviously Sam Pilgrim can ride anything, but he was honestly loving the bike in Mallroca and had no issues throwing it around:

 

[Polaris]

Every other eBike feels broken after riding it

Bold statement! In what way?
I find it very strange that both haibike reps in the emtb interview video would still prefer the lapierre zesty over the haibike, thought that spoke words really?

 

[steve_sordy]

..........

I find it very strange that both haibike reps in the emtb interview video would still prefer the lapierre zesty over the haibike, thought that spoke words really?

Those two bikes represent for me the way the emtb industry might split. One will be lighter and more like an mtb, the other is heavier and more like a motorbike. (The Haibike even has built-in headlights!).

 

[More-read-than-ride]

PS...
I am a little uncertain why you went for the Flyon based on that. Both Shimano and Brose are well known to have very low levels of resistance above the limit ; have you ridden a TQ back to back and confirmed it's better or even as good? Also I don't get the statement about low weight - these bikes will be amongst the heaviest out there when they land. That motor is a lot heavier than the latest from Brose and Shimano and the battery will be too due to it's additional capacity.

All good points! (Damn )

You are right, my statement is a too simplistic (and these were not the only factors.)
Since I have never tried the Flyon I am not sure how much it differs from Shimano and Brose in resistance ("0" vs. "some"). Perhaps it is not even noticable...

Also, I do not mean total weight as much as weight compared to performance. Supposedly the battery for Haibike is very high density (48V), which theoretically means lower weight per Wh but that might also just be hype and have no real impact. The lower resistance in the motor should also improve range. Again might not be noticable.
The motor is really heavy, which will be only partly offset by the carbon frame.
hmmm

However, the things that I also like are the design, comfort, the spec, the mixed wheels, fox elite suspension, how good my local dealer is (he has cube and Haibike). Also, some will kill me, but I am not a big fan of Shimano. I would perhaps have dared a Canyon, but I am worried about service locally in Spain. Finally, I dont know any good value bikes with Brose motor available locally. Specialized is here, just too damn expensive vs. spec.
I am the typical idiot who value spec over real-life performance, perhaps.
All these things factor in for me.

In other words, I am taking a gamble, getting caught in the hype. Once it gets here I will be sure to report! (But your comments have made me think...)

 

[steve_sordy]

You have plenty of time to try other bikes. Then you can decide whether to stick with what sounds like an impulse purchase (we've all done it), or to cancel and get something different.

I tried more than half a dozen bikes before choosing one. The one I chose was initially third choice on looks and spec, until I rode it and then the decision was made. I bought a Focus Jam2. The motor has so little drag that when first throwing a leg over, I'd gone 200 yards to the trail start gate before I realised that the motor was not switched on. It has a Shimano Steps motor.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

You have plenty of time to try other bikes. Then you can decide whether to stick with what sounds like an impulse purchase (we've all done it), or to cancel and get something different.

I tried more than half a dozen bikes before choosing one. The one I chose was initially third choice on looks and spec, until I rode it and then the decision was made. I bought a Focus Jam2. The motor has so little drag that when first throwing a leg over, I'd gone 200 yards to the trail start gate before I realised that the motor was not switched on. It has a Shimano Steps motor.

You guys make compelling arguments and I can still change my mind. Damn, back to the drawing board...[/QUOTE]

 

[More-read-than-ride]

If you are looking for an eMTB which feels close to a normal MTB then I would say the FLYON bikes are probably not for you.

Agreed. I am looking for a comfortable, capable, long-ish travel bike. I like the heavy LT ETMB feel, not the superlight XC feel. I loved the cube 160 Action team (many call it dull and heavy), but it doesnt do longer straights very well...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Those two bikes represent for me the way the emtb industry might split. One will be lighter and more like an mtb, the other is heavier and more like a motorbike. (The Haibike even has built-in headlights!).

If you werent alreay aware, Haibike and Lapierre are owned by the same company.

Brands in the Accell Group: Link
Haibike (Germany), Winora (Germany), Batavus (Netherlands), Sparta (Netherlands), Koga (Netherlands), Lapierre (France), Ghost (Germany), Raleigh and Diamondback (UK, US, Canada), Tunturi (Finland), Atala (Italy), Redline (US), Loekie (Netherlands) and XLC (international).

Its a win win really, Lapierre with the ultra light weight nimble low powered bike and then the super performance Haibike FLYON with a load of other bikes in between ?

 

[MattyB]

All good points! (Damn )

You are right, my statement is a too simplistic (and these were not the only factors.)
Since I have never tried the Flyon I am not sure how much it differs from Shimano and Brose in resistance ("0" vs. "some"). Perhaps it is not even noticable...

All ebike powertrains will have some additional resistance compared to an analog bike because of the extra components and mass being rotated at the BB - there is no such thing as zero resistance. However Shimano and Brose have both delivered very low resistance above the assistance limit, so I fail to see how TQ can be that much better in this respect tbh. Time will tell.

...Also, I do not mean total weight as much as weight compared to performance. Supposedly the battery for Haibike is very high density (48V), which theoretically means lower weight per Wh but that might also just be hype and have no real impact.

Do not confuse voltage and energy density - they are not the same thing. Energy density is actually enery per unit volume, but it can also be (incorrectly ) used for energy per unit mass (actually "specific energy"). Voltage is just the potential difference defined by number of cells they have joined together in series multiplied by the voltage per cell (which is inherent to the battery chemistry).

Personally I suspect this is hype; they have not released the weight of the battery whish is telling. Energy density is a function of the battery chemistry more than anything else, and currently all mainstream ebikes use the same chemistry (Li-ion). They may have used the larger 21700 cells (instead of the std 18650s) to give a slight improvement in density, but it's not going to give a step change in performance. Coupled with the fact buyers are likely to use it in higher power modes more often then real world range is unlikely to be any better than a 500W bike from Shimano or Brose.

PS - Yes, I am a battery nerd from my RC flying hobby...

...In other words, I am taking a gamble, getting caught in the hype. Once it gets here I will be sure to report! (But your comments have made me think...)

I would strongly recommend you at least try out a (lighter, cheaper) bike with Shimano and another (lighter, probably more expensive ) with Brose before you go ahead with the Flyon. You may like the looks and numbers now, but these things are bl00dy expensive and buyers remorse is a terrible thing...

 

[eebit]

[QUOTE="Every other eBike feels broken after riding it.
Bold statement! In what way?
I find it very strange that both haibike reps in the emtb interview video would still prefer the lapierre zesty over the haibike, thought that spoke words really?

It seems unlikely they have tried either of the bikes, as the finished production versions will not be available until the summer. The eZesty must be great fun to ride, but after trying a Fazua system i think steep technical uphills would probably be out of the question on it with so little power. For any trails with speeds averaging under or around 25 KM/h, or any rides involving long or steep uphills nothing will be able to keep up with a FLYON in extreme mode. It's a great time to be into eMTB with such a wide range of interesting options out there!

 

[eebit]

You guys make compelling arguments and I can still change my mind. Damn, back to the drawing board...

[/QUOTE]
During the many trade events this year I rode almost every eMTB out there (not the new eZesty though) and whilst i think other bikes are more agile, and therefore in some situations more fun, I would still take the FLYON AllMtn because of how refined the whole package is and how slow and weak every other bike feels after riding it. I have a top spec Yamaha AllMtn as well which is also a great bike, super light and I used to think it was powerful too, but the FLYON models are just another league really. Like a 2 stroke 125 Motocross bikes VS a 4 stroke 450 MX bike. Both fun, just depends what you are after really.

 

[MattyB]

During the many trade events this year I rode almost every eMTB out there (not the new eZesty though) and whilst i think other bikes are more agile, and therefore in some situations more fun, I would still take the FLYON AllMtn because of how refined the whole package is and how slow and weak every other bike feels after riding it. I have a top spec Yamaha AllMtn as well which is also a great bike, super light and I used to think it was powerful too, but the FLYON models are just another league really. Like a 2 stroke 125 Motocross bikes VS a 4 stroke 450 MX bike. Both fun, just depends what you are after really.

@eebit Please don't take any offense, but I think you need to disclose your relationship with Haibike/Accell. Are you a reseller, hence how you have tried these bikes? No-one will have a problem with you contributing here if you are, but there is nothing in your profile that states it clearly. Best to be fully transparent I think; lots of people come here looking for impartial advice.