2019 Flyon Closer Look

[eebit]

@eebit Please don't take any offense, but I think you need to disclose your relationship with Haibike/Accell. Are you a reseller, hence how you have tried these bikes? No-one will have no problem you contributing here if you are, but there is nothing in your profile that states it clearly. Best to be fully transparent I think; lots of people come here looking for impartial advice.

Sure, I am Co-Owner of the Haibike Design Center Munich GmbH, or HDCM as we call ourselves. We are an independently owned and run studio with a contract to do all of the Brand / Design / Communication work for Haibike. This is why I have tried so many bikes, and why I am currently riding a FLYON prototype. You can believe me I had a lot of the same concerns about the bikes as have been expressed in here, but after riding it I am happy to stand by the bike which is why I am replying to comments on here. From what I hear the biggest problem with it will be that it is sold out and will be really hard to get hold of which is annoying because I want the 10.0 AllMtn version

This is me too, but I don't use it as much as I did. Was ok when I was designing the Color, Trim and Graphics for KTM motorcycles for 7 years, but it's not the best name now that I am involved in the eMTB world as I am not an advocate of chipping bikes: www.derestricted.com // DERESTRICTED.com (@derestricted) • Instagram photos and videos

 

[R120]

I really think its going to be incredibly hard to pass judgement on the Flyon until you hop on one - I have never been a fan of Haibike, mainly as I am a tart and don't like the way the look, for me they have mostly looked like a horrifically painted frame fell out the EMTB parts bin tree and hit all the branches on the way down, but having ridden a few they are incredibly sorted bikes, and no one has experience in the sector like Haibike. I like the look of the Flyon too , especially the black one with Fox kit on it

The weight issue doesn't concern me, its no more of a "pig" than a Kenevo or Cube action, or many many other EMTB's out there weight wise, and one of the key elements of EMTB design is not just the weight, but how the weight gets "masked" when you start riding it, through good geometry and design.

Cant wait to try one

 

[TheBikePilot]

+1 to try one.

 

[MattyB]

Sure, I am Co-Owner of the Haibike Design Center Munich GmbH, or HDCM as we call ourselves. We are an independently owned and run studio with a contract to do all of the Brand / Design / Communication work for Haibike. This is why I have tried so many bikes, and why I am currently riding a FLYON prototype. You can believe me I had a lot of the same concerns about the bikes as have been expressed in here, but after riding it I am happy to stand by the bike which is why I am replying to comments on here. From what I hear the biggest problem with it will be that it is sold out and will be really hard to get hold of which is annoying because I want the 10.0 AllMtn version

This is me too, but I don't use it as much as I did. Was ok when I was designing the Color, Trim and Graphics for KTM motorcycles for 7 years, but it's not the best name now that I am involved in the eMTB world as I am not an advocate of chipping bikes: www.derestricted.com // DERESTRICTED.com (@derestricted) • Instagram photos and videos

View attachment 9309

Excellent - a full on insider then! ?? Welcome to the forum.

 

[Polaris]

Excellent - a full on insider then! ?? Welcome to the forum.

Yes I do believe we are all best of friends here #matesrates #whatwaitinglist

 

[Dirtnvert]

Without seeing or needing to see a full geo chart, I can’t get by that top tube and the length of the chainstays. The toptube being that high at the head tube and seat tube has no benefit and actually takes away from the maneuverability and it limits the drop on your dropper(the 80’s called and they want their top tube back). The chainstay length at 460? Would be the same length Greg Minnaar specs on his 29er v10 and he’s 6”4’ with the leg length of someone 6”8’. Normal chainstay length and low top tube would keep it playful, steeper seat tube gives rear tire clearance and keeps the front down and longer top tube would keep the front end down and keep the stability on the dh. I like the looks of that 8.0(I’m trying to imagine the tt is actually low) and the battery and the torque and lights and display though. Will I smash that display? Will I grind the freehub , chain and cassette into dust with that torque? The motor seems like the groundbreaking invention here but it might need a transmission to match? Is it the Edsel?

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I really think its going to be incredibly hard to pass judgement on the Flyon until you hop on one - I have never been a fan of Haibike, mainly as I am a tart and don't like the way the look, for me they have mostly looked like a horrifically painted frame fell out the EMTB parts bin tree and hit all the branches on the way down, but having ridden a few they are incredibly sorted bikes, and no one has experience in the sector like Haibike. I like the look of the Flyon too , especially the black one with Fox kit on it

The weight issue doesn't concern me, its no more of a "pig" than a Kenevo or Cube action, or many many other EMTB's out there weight wise, and one of the key elements of EMTB design is not just the weight, but how the weight gets "masked" when you start riding it, through good geometry and design.

Cant wait to try one

View attachment 9317

Great post! The one in the picture is the one I reserved. The waiting time is hard...

 

[bissona]

Really look forward to trying one, but my preference will always be towards the lighter end of the market. The thing that attracted me towards the '19 Flyons was not the engine but the integrated nav, lights, etc, and Haibike's pedigree in the industry. If they could skinny the whole package down to 18-19kg then I'd be seriously interested.

The above said, would really appreciate less of the partisan / fanboi nonsense, and props to @MattyB for calling it. Lots of great engineers out there working hard to fulfil a myriad of different requirements from millions of users. The idea that one solution is inherently 'better' than all others deserves the ridicule its receiving.

 

[Albez]

I really think its going to be incredibly hard to pass judgement on the Flyon until you hop on one - I have never been a fan of Haibike, mainly as I am a tart and don't like the way the look, for me they have mostly looked like a horrifically painted frame fell out the EMTB parts bin tree and hit all the branches on the way down, but having ridden a few they are incredibly sorted bikes, and no one has experience in the sector like Haibike. I like the look of the Flyon too , especially the black one with Fox kit on it

The weight issue doesn't concern me, its no more of a "pig" than a Kenevo or Cube action, or many many other EMTB's out there weight wise, and one of the key elements of EMTB design is not just the weight, but how the weight gets "masked" when you start riding it, through good geometry and design.

Cant wait to try one

View attachment 9317

It looks like something a hells angel would ride. It's like the Harley of emtb riding lol

 

[eebit]

Really look forward to trying one, but my preference will always be towards the lighter end of the market. The thing that attracted me towards the '19 Flyons was not the engine but the integrated nav, lights, etc, and Haibike's pedigree in the industry. If they could skinny the whole package down to 18-19kg then I'd be seriously interested.

The above said, would really appreciate less of the partisan / fanboi nonsense, and props to @MattyB for calling it. Lots of great engineers out there working hard to fulfil a myriad of different requirements from millions of users. The idea that one solution is inherently 'better' than all others deserves the ridicule its receiving.

Depending on the user case and the trails you ride then one solution or another will likely always be better. Most of the top eBikes nowadays are seriously good, and most people would be happy with any of them, but I still believe the FLYON bikes offer something different than the rest (the eZesty too), and not just because they don't use the same old eBike systems as everybody else. Whether this is for you or not is up to you, as I tried to explain I was also a little sceptical until I tried one. By the way I also rode the Focus Jam2 on several occasions and while it's still a good bike I was pretty underwhelmed, so each to their own. I would rank it about 7th out of the bikes I have tried.

 

[bissona]

I would rank it about 7th out of the bikes I have tried.

It ranked 1st in my "bikes available now and under £2.5k" category!

As stated, I look forward to trying the Flyon once one is available to test, and hope they produce a lightweight version one day. At 24.6kg for the top of the range bike, it's over 5kg heavier than the competition, that's a whopping 25% extra weight for power that I'm not looking for.... As per other threads, give me a 125W motor, with a 250Wh battery, in a 15kg FS bike and I'm a happy man.

There's a lot to like about the new Haibike's but this hard-sales-while-insulting-other-manufacturers line you're taking is more likely to put people off than encourage them to order.

 

[eebit]

It ranked 1st in my "bikes available now and under £2.5k" category!

As stated, I look forward to trying the Flyon once one is available to test, and hope they produce a lightweight version one day. At 24.6kg for the top of the range bike, it's over 5kg heavier than the competition, that's a whopping 25% extra weight for power that I'm not looking for.... As per other threads, give me a 125W motor, with a 250Wh battery, in a 15kg FS bike and I'm a happy man.

There's a lot to like about the new Haibike's but this hard-sales-while-insulting-other-manufacturers line you're taking is more likely to put people off than encourage them to order.

It sounds like the eZesty is the bike for you.
I made no insults to the other manufacturers, most of the eMTB offerings are good from all the top manufacturers right now as I already stated. I like all the motors too, except maybe the Bosch because I don't like the drag over 25 Km/h. BUT, if you ride the FLYON AllMtn back to back with another eBike system it obviously feels so much faster since it has 120 Nm of Torque. I did it recently and couldn't believe how slow my own Yamaha AllMtn felt, and I really like that bike too. This is my honest to god impression. There is no need to insult me by saying that deserves ridicule. I have no shares in Haibike and am not employed by them, but I am lucky enough to have tried the bikes and wanted to share some insights, since this is what the thread is about.

 

[R120]

@eebit is there an option to remove the screen? And also it look form the pictures I have seen that the shape of the mode controller prevents the use of a trigger style dropper remote?

 

[khorn]

It sounds like the eZesty is the bike for you.
I made no insults to the other manufacturers, most of the eMTB offerings are good from all the top manufacturers right now as I already stated. I like all the motors too, except maybe the Bosch because I don't like the drag over 25 Km/h. BUT, if you ride the FLYON AllMtn back to back with another eBike system it obviously feels so much faster since it has 120 Nm of Torque. I did it recently and couldn't believe how slow my own Yamaha AllMtn felt, and I really like that bike too. This is my honest to god impression. There is no need to insult me by saying that deserves ridicule. I have no shares in Haibike and am not employed by them, but I am lucky enough to have tried the bikes and thought people would appreciate some insights into the bikes in the thread which is about taking a closer look at the bikes.

I think that it is very beneficial to have “insiders” here on the Forum and I’m more than capable of filtering your enthusiasm for the Flyon

Giving feedback on a bike that will not be launched before mid year is indeed valuable for those that are considering the bike. However, my personal advice is to try the bike before purchasing, for me it would be gambling with a lot of money to order a bike that you don’t even know if you actually like to ride or not.

Karsten

 

[bissona]

, but I am lucky enough to have tried the bikes and thought people would appreciate some insights into the bikes should be told that it's better than all other bikes in the thread which is about taking a closer look at the bikes.

Fixed that for you.

And you're right, the eZesty at 18kg looks very nice indeed, especially given the components on it. Going to be a long wait to try either of them....

 

[eebit]

@eebit is there an option to remove the screen? And also it look form the pictures I have seen that the shape of the mode controller prevents the use of a trigger style dropper remote?

No option to remove the screen at the moment I don't think. Some of the test bikes have trigger dropper levers, they work too, but I prefer this one.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Fixed that for you.

And you're right, the eZesty at 18kg looks very nice indeed, especially given the components on it. Going to be a long wait to try either of them....

I actually think @eebit has been pretty balanced and giving his personal opinion to be fair...

And yes, we want as much detail on the FLYON as possible, after all this is a FLYON thread ??

 

[bissona]

I actually think @eebit has been pretty balanced and giving his personal opinion to be fair...

Ok, ok, I'll stop being mean! My concern was that this:

Sure, I am Co-Owner of the Haibike Design Center Munich GmbH, or HDCM as we call ourselves. We are an independently owned and run studio with a contract to do all of the Brand / Design / Communication work for Haibike.

...jarred somewhat with...

I have no shares in Haibike and am not employed by them

...which, in light of these comments....

The FLYON bikes are to eBikes as eBikes are to regular bikes, both in looks and ePerformance.

Every other eBike feels broken after riding it.

how slow and weak every other bike feels

...gave me the unshakable feeling that perhaps his balance needed some balance!

As Karsten says, I'm sure all are capable of filtering excess enthusiasm. I'll get back in my box now!

 

[eebit]

Ok, ok, I'll stop being mean! My concern was that this:


...jarred somewhat with...


...which, in light of these comments....




...gave me the unshakable feeling that perhaps his balance needed some balance!

As Karsten says, I'm sure all are capable of filtering excess enthusiasm. I'll get back in my box now!

These are my honest thoughts, and I stand by them, but of course the best thing is to ride one and make up your own mind once they are available in the summer. Please come back to me afterwards though. Will be surprised if you don’t think the same.

 

[eebit]

*Disclaimer* Compared to my previous posts which were actually my thoughts, this is actually an ad. I shot this photo of Italian eMTB champion Andrea in Mallorca a few months ago when we tried the bikes for the fist time. The climb was ridiculously steep, it took Andrea a few tries, but after he nailed it he then did it again and again for me to photograph from some different angles to find the best one. I don’t think you could have made that climb without a motor as strong as that. The main photo almost looks too steep to believe which is why I added the sequence below to show it was real.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Thanks! No need for disclaimers,
You have always been extremely straight forward. The photos look great and make me look forward to the bike even more

 

[Polaris]

*Disclaimer* Compared to my previous posts which were actually my thoughts, this is actually an ad. I shot this photo of Italian eMTB champion Andrea in Mallorca a few months ago when we tried the bikes for the fist time. The climb was ridiculously steep, it took Andrea a few tries, but after he nailed it he then did it again and again for me to photograph from some different angles to find the best one. I don’t think you could have made that climb without a motor as strong as that. The main photo almost looks too steep to believe which is why I added the sequence below to show it was real.

View attachment 10617

Looks an impressive climb, and the bike does look better in those colours too, I can’t wait to try one.. but that down tube still fatter than that dudes muscilar tattood leg! You get stuck half away up climb with a flat battery on that beast and it will need helilifting back to base. Out of interest what is the resistance in the Flyon drive when unpowered?

 

[More-read-than-ride]

Looks an impressive climb, and the bike does look better in those colours too, I can’t wait to try one.. but that down tube still fatter than that dudes muscilar tattood leg! You get stuck half away up climb with a flat battery on that beast and it will need helilifting back to base. Out of interest what is the resistance in the Flyon drive when unpowered?

According to this it is zero.
The best eMTB motor 2018 – 6 powerhouses go head to head | Page 6 of 7 | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

*Disclaimer* Compared to my previous posts which were actually my thoughts, this is actually an ad. I shot this photo of Italian eMTB champion Andrea in Mallorca a few months ago when we tried the bikes for the fist time. The climb was ridiculously steep, it took Andrea a few tries, but after he nailed it he then did it again and again for me to photograph from some different angles to find the best one. I don’t think you could have made that climb without a motor as strong as that. The main photo almost looks too steep to believe which is why I added the sequence below to show it was real.

View attachment 10617

Now that is a climb!

 

[Interpaul]

@eebit been reading derestricted.com for years being a KTM dirt and street bike owner - also love you cross over skiing stuff as that is my main love - although I do like me eMTB almost as much

 

[Macone]

That's been an interesting chat. My two cents worth (pennies for you POM's). I don't really see the need for more power than the current crop of motors considering my shimano in boost mode can pretty much get me up anything that isn't too steep to tip me over backwards. The only time the extra power comes into its own is surely in boost mode or its equivalent on other brands, so not really that relevant to a lot of peoples riding. on the other hand I see a lot of talk on here about how heavy some of these bikes are compared to other bikes- I weigh 114kg's so total combined weight difference of me and a bike, in percentage terms, is minimal in real terms. to summarize - my personal opinion of the Flyon is: I like the look, don't care about the weight (even though I currently have a Focus Jam2), have no opinion on the geometry (have found that numbers on paper do not always match ride feel) until I can actually ride one, don't care for more power but am keen to test the power delivery in each "mode", can't really see why they would be any more expensive than the current crop of bikes. As I said, just my opinion and I always say "ride before you buy".

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I agree that on most days and for most people the power is not the most important reason to be interested in a new motor. I feel many of us ride in Eco a large part of the time.

However, on days where time is limited, it gives you more quick blasts up the hill.

So, if you are really eloquent (or you wife is extremely naïve) you can now convince her that you will be home earlier and that your 8k€ bike therefore is a great investment!

 

[Akiwi]

..........

So, if you are really eloquent (or you wife is extremely naïve) you can now convince her that you will be home earlier and that your 8k€ bike therefore is a great investment!

:-D

Or that the one with built in lights is much much safer!!

 

[eebit]

:-D

Or that the one with built in lights is much much safer!!

... and that it has eConnect with built in theft protection/bike tracking, keeping your bike safer. It also has accident notification making it safer when you ride alone, if you crash and don't get up in time, it sends a message to you to see if you are ok, and if you don't respond it can if you check that option send an SMS to a pre-defined contact to let them know where you are.

 

[Polaris]

... and that it has eConnect with built in theft protection/bike tracking, keeping your bike safer. It also has accident notification making it safer when you ride alone, if you crash and don't get up in time, it sends a message to you to see if you are ok, and if you don't respond it can if you check that option send an SMS to a pre-defined contact to let them know where you are.

Can it wash dishes..? I’m thinking of relegating the current older model