Bosch Gen 5 efficiency?

nickf

Member
May 29, 2023
9
5
france
I've a question for any Bosch gen 5 owners about their experience of its efficiency and battery consumption.

I just test rode a Santa Cruz Vala for the day with the Bosch gen 5 motor and 600Wh battery. I rode a collection of steep natural rocky trails and did a 30km and +700m circuit at which point I had to call it a day because the battery was showing only 1 red bar on the controller display (12% remaining on the app). I had fully charged it before setting out, but the display fairly quickly dropped to 4 bars + 1 white bar (i,e 90%) so I presume it was only around 95% charged at the start. That would mean I used 80% of the 600Wh capacity, which seemed a lot to me.

I compared my ride stats from a previous ride of more or less the same circuit on my 2022 Trek Rail. This has the pre-smart system gen 4 motor and a 625Wh battery. Although the off-road circuit was more or less the same, on this occasion I had ridden to and from the start point by road which added another 15km to the total, and my battery usage was also more or less 80%. So that means 45km on the Rail compared to 30km on the Vala for more or less the same battery consumption.

I can imagine some inaccuracy in my estimation of the Rail's consumption, especially since the original Purion display only shows battery state in 20% increments, and it may have been colder by a few degrees C on the the day I rode the Vala which could affect battery usage. (Also my Rail has 25Wh more than the Vala.) Nevertheless, even taking these factors into account it does seem to me as if the range was considerably poorer with the gen 5 Vala then my old gen 4 Rail.

Am I mistaken? What do other gen 5 owners say? Thanks.
 

Rob Rides EMTB

Administrator
Staff member
Subscriber
Jan 14, 2018
6,292
13,850
Surrey, UK
I've a question for any Bosch gen 5 owners about their experience of its efficiency and battery consumption.

I just test rode a Santa Cruz Vala for the day with the Bosch gen 5 motor and 600Wh battery. I rode a collection of steep natural rocky trails and did a 30km and +700m circuit at which point I had to call it a day because the battery was showing only 1 red bar on the controller display (12% remaining on the app). I had fully charged it before setting out, but the display fairly quickly dropped to 4 bars + 1 white bar (i,e 90%) so I presume it was only around 95% charged at the start. That would mean I used 80% of the 600Wh capacity, which seemed a lot to me.

I compared my ride stats from a previous ride of more or less the same circuit on my 2022 Trek Rail. This has the pre-smart system gen 4 motor and a 625Wh battery. Although the off-road circuit was more or less the same, on this occasion I had ridden to and from the start point by road which added another 15km to the total, and my battery usage was also more or less 80%. So that means 45km on the Rail compared to 30km on the Vala for more or less the same battery consumption.

I can imagine some inaccuracy in my estimation of the Rail's consumption, especially since the original Purion display only shows battery state in 20% increments, and it may have been colder by a few degrees C on the the day I rode the Vala which could affect battery usage. (Also my Rail has 25Wh more than the Vala.) Nevertheless, even taking these factors into account it does seem to me as if the range was considerably poorer with the gen 5 Vala then my old gen 4 Rail.

Am I mistaken? What do other gen 5 owners say? Thanks.
What was the temperature outside on the Vala vs the Rail?

In my experience the range is very similar
 

nickf

Member
May 29, 2023
9
5
france
It was around 10C with the Vala. I rode the Rail on that same circuit a week ago and can't honestly recall the temperature then, but it couldn't have been more than 14C at best. Could a 4-5C difference in ambient temperature make that much impact? I really feel the cold intensely, and never go out if it's less than 6 or 7C outside, so I have not noticed any temperature effects on my battery when riding the Rail.

FYI the Vala was wearing the magic Mary radials which I had set at 18 PSI, compared to an Assegai/DHR2 combo on my Rail which I run at 16 PSI front, 18 rear. Yes, pretty low I know, but comparable pressures for the radials.

I wouldn't normally have commented on the difference in battery usage except it was so dramatic in this case.
 

Durrti

Active member
Aug 22, 2021
163
164
California
What was the temperature outside on the Vala vs the Rail?

In my experience the range is very similar
I have noticed that Auto on the Gen 5 seems a bit more powerful and uses a touch more battery than the Gen 4 in auto, but nothing like @nickf has seen. I think emtb is much more natural and efficient on the new motor.
(Comparing Wild to S180 same tire setup)
Cheers 🤙
 

ficorama

Active member
Oct 9, 2021
395
317
Croatia
I have noticed that Auto on the Gen 5 seems a bit more powerful and uses a touch more battery than the Gen 4 in auto, but nothing like @nickf has seen. I think emtb is much more natural and efficient on the new motor.
(Comparing Wild to S180 same tire setup)
Cheers 🤙
I had a cx4 smart before. in my opinion, the engine power is reduced by modes, default factory settings. as far as I can see from my rides, I drive more in emtb, so it consumes the battery quickly. I rode the tour+ more on the smart because it felt like it had more power for pedaling uphill. I also noticed that it drains the battery faster than the smart, due to more driving in emtb.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,761
5,226
Weymouth
It was around 10C with the Vala. I rode the Rail on that same circuit a week ago and can't honestly recall the temperature then, but it couldn't have been more than 14C at best. Could a 4-5C difference in ambient temperature make that much impact? I really feel the cold intensely, and never go out if it's less than 6 or 7C outside, so I have not noticed any temperature effects on my battery when riding the Rail.

FYI the Vala was wearing the magic Mary radials which I had set at 18 PSI, compared to an Assegai/DHR2 combo on my Rail which I run at 16 PSI front, 18 rear. Yes, pretty low I know, but comparable pressures for the radials.

I wouldn't normally have commented on the difference in battery usage except it was so dramatic in this case.
Magic mary has quite a bit of drag....and in radial form at the very low pressure you were running I would think that drag nearly doubles!! The whole point of the radial design is that it puts a wider footprint on the ground and at the low pressure you were running I would think it would be equivalent to running your Assegai flat!!
 

Rando_12345

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2022
408
570
France
I did a huge ride the other day with my 600 and 800wh batteries. I'm 78kg, very out of shape, ~15degrees Celsius.

600Wh: got 1200m of climbing over 25 km with 5% left, 80%turbo with emtb to get back to the car at the end.

800Wh: got 1700m of climbing over 30km with around 15% left, all turbo.

So it seems to me that the 600Wh under delivers per WH with respect to the 800wh. As in compared to my previous system (Yamaha/giant) the 600Wh battery gives similar range as my previous bike with a 625, but the Bosch 800wh beats the giant 800wh by over 10%.
 

nickf

Member
May 29, 2023
9
5
france
Be warry of auto battery consumption if you are used to tour. Auto burns more.
In my case i was riding on emtb mode on both the Vala and Rail, so the consumption should have been similar. I'm guessing that Mikerb may be right and that running the MMs at low pressures could have added significant drag.
 

irie

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
May 2, 2022
3,150
3,264
Chichester, W.Sussex, UK
Made me think, dangerous I know 😉

Always seem to get less battery range in winter and put this down to the cold. Perhaps it's also caused by running grippier tyres with more drag (and also lower pressures) in winter, and softer compounds?

We (wife and I) are running Maxxis High Roller 3's DD front DH rear for winter. Huge grip where it matters but on hard surfaces they're draggy and noisy as hell. Won't run these in summer.
 
Last edited:

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,761
5,226
Weymouth
I think a variety of factors can lead to increased drag in winter. Air resistance is one ...if the air is denser/cold air carries more moisture.......extra rider clothing, progressively more weight in the form of mud added to tyres and frame...and probably rider!! Softer surfaces increasing rolling drag..........and that creates some conflicting best tyre combo scenarios.

So for example if a lot of the trail surface allows the tyre to penetrate 50mm, the wider the contact patch the greater the rolling resistance, so wider tyres and lower tyre pressures can actually create more drag. At the same time a tyre with open tread ( clears mud) and relatively tall knobs, AND has a fairly narrow contact patch, will penetrate the soft top trail surface better in terms of finding grip. For sticky muddy conditions in winter I run higher rear tyre pressures than in the summer when the trail top surface is mostly loose. All of which is well known in the rallying world. Personally I only run mud tyres on the rear ( spesh Hillbilly/ Maxxis Shortie), and any tyre that does not clog is fine for the front Magic Mary/DHF/ Michelin Wild Enduro, because the grip you ask for is largely for when the bike is leaned, so it is the knobs on the tyre edge that are important.
 

Bman

Member
Mar 12, 2021
19
13
Dallas, TX
I’ve been disappointed in the 600wh on my Crestline with Gen 5 motor vs the 750wh battery on my Pivot Shuttle AM with the Gen 4 Race motor. In e-mtb, the Gen 4 seems to use noticeably less battery, both have same assist profiles (+2). Bought an 800wh battery to see if I can get more than 33% more than the 600.
 

Plummet

Flash Git
Mar 16, 2023
1,177
1,657
New Zealand
I’ve been disappointed in the 600wh on my Crestline with Gen 5 motor vs the 750wh battery on my Pivot Shuttle AM with the Gen 4 Race motor. In e-mtb, the Gen 4 seems to use noticeably less battery, both have same assist profiles (+2). Bought an 800wh battery to see if I can get more than 33% more than the 600.
Is it possible that gen 5 is smoother and actually outputting more power? Do you need +2?
 

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