Internal Power Cable Failure, Levo 2019

[Mikerb]

I passed on some suggestions to Spesh Rider Care about managing the electrical aspects of the Levo. The Rosenburg connection was one area I referred to because it is a key area of vulnerability and its magnetic system adds to that. The charger for example should be supplied with a dust cover which should be replaced when not in use. Otherwise it is a prime candidate for transfering dust or mrtallic particles to the battery port. Similarly they should supply a cover for the power lead battery connection to be put in place when the bike is being charged with the battery in the bike. The battery should also come with a rubber plug to close off the charging port when it is being stored outside the bike.
Regular maintenance should include lubricating the rubber O ring on the power lead battery end connector.
In terms of design changes I said it would be better to have an additional gasket seal on the carrier of the power lead battery connector and for it to be further secured to the motor cover with a twist cam type fixing rather than rely just on the magnetic force to maintain a good connection.

 

[Mikerb]

I ordered the new power cable as a precaution. My bike had had no faults with the existing cable. This is what the latest cable looks like. There is also now installation guidance in the service manual. I wonder if how the cable was installed is the difference between those who have had cable connectors that crack whilst others have had no such problem? Both the cable design and the installation advice seem to suggest that the d shaped motor connection was under too much pressure.

 

[NULevo]

I ordered the new power cable as a precaution. My bike had had no faults with the existing cable. This is what the latest cable looks like. There is also now installation guidance in the service manual. I wonder if how the cable was installed is the difference between those who have had cable connectors that crack whilst others have had no such problem? Both the cable design and the installation advice seem to suggest that the d shaped motor connection was under too much pressure.

View attachment 25174

View attachment 25175

Hi Mike,

Are you going to replace the cable straight away, or keep it until the current one has problems?

What sort of cost is involved if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Mikerb]

Hi Mike,

Are you going to replace the cable straight away, or keep it until the current one has problems?

What sort of cost is involved if you don't mind me asking?

I have not yet removed the motor cover to check what it is like in there, but yes, I will change it as a precaution and assuming the existing cable is OK I will keep that as a spare for me or a mate that starts getting problems. As mentioned above the failure of the existing cable is either due to incorrect installation or it is a fatigue problem likely to occur the longer it is used. Changing the cable for the new version therefore seems a logical thing to do.

 

[ccrdave]

Did you get that direct from specialized? I think the plugs split because the outer casing was too stiff and the loop too tight. Looks like yours has a softer outer case right?

 

[Mikerb]

Basically I think you are right. This cable has the outer sheath removed from just beyond the zip tie that prevents the cable being pulled at the battery end. The 4 wires are unsheathe from there right into the motor end plug so that section is very flexible. The unsheathed section is covered by a loose fitting rubber sleeve secured at either end with zip ties. As you can see the rubber sleeve goes over the "d" section of the motor plug and is zip tied there. Not sure why they did not use a heat shrink wrap instead of the rubber sleeve except the rubber sleeve is likely to be more robust against abrasion than shrink wrap.

 

[ccrdave]

It baffles me why they didnt just redesign the cable from the problems they had with the 2017/18 models. With a little bit of engineering the inner plug pins could be turned 180 degrees and then the cable could be much shorter with no loop to cause any strain and it could be much more waterproof

 

[Mikerb]

Not sure there is room for it to face the other way......there might also be heat problems with a very short cable?

 

[ccrdave]

the 1.2/3 motors had the power socket in a different orientation so there was no bend in the cable. According to electrical engineering standards on cable bends, the one in the 2019 levo exceeds those by quite a bit, do you think a shorter straight cable will regenerate more heat than an over bent one?

 

[StuR]

My Levo 19 had developed an intermittent power on/off issue
Took it back to Berkshire cycles about 4 wks ago as the power cable was split .
New cable and diagnostic check , dry off electrical bits - seemed ok .
Back in 2wks later - similar intermittent fault
New TCU , software update , dry off electrical bits again - seemed ok
Haven't ridden or got it wet since but been checking on/off switch and seem to have another fault .
Wont switch on initially , have to unplug power cable and plug back in then switch on TCU - then it powers up and seems to behave.
Come back next day and same problem .
I'm Not happy !!!!!!
Gonna try and risk a ride today but confidence in the fix is low .
Chris and his team have been awesome.
I've informed him of the current issue and said I would monitor for a couple of rides/wks and keep him posted .
But the prospect of a 3rd 5hr round trip in a month is not ideal .

Anyone had similar fault/fixes ?

 

[Paceman]

Just had a replacement internal power cable (the original one was split) and TCU under warranty, both fitted by Rayment Cycles, my local Spesh Dealer. They did a great job and were really helpful throughout when liaising with Specialized Rider Care.

First ride out since will be this weekend ...it's looking ominously wet!

 

[ccrdave]

My Levo 19 had developed an intermittent power on/off issue
Took it back to Berkshire cycles about 4 wks ago as the power cable was split .
New cable and diagnostic check , dry off electrical bits - seemed ok .
Back in 2wks later - similar intermittent fault
New TCU , software update , dry off electrical bits again - seemed ok
Haven't ridden or got it wet since but been checking on/off switch and seem to have another fault .
Wont switch on initially , have to unplug power cable and plug back in then switch on TCU - then it powers up and seems to behave.
Come back next day and same problem .
I'm Not happy !!!!!!
Gonna try and risk a ride today but confidence in the fix is low .
Chris and his team have been awesome.
I've informed him of the current issue and said I would monitor for a couple of rides/wks and keep him posted .
But the prospect of a 3rd 5hr round trip in a month is not ideal .

Anyone had similar fault/fixes ?

yes I had exactly the same, TCU has water in it, i took mine out and dried it for a couple of days and then taped up all the joints with waterproof tape and put it back in. Didnt work as expected at first but now it seems ok. Chris said I probably need a new TCU but he didnt have any at the time

 

[StuR]

yes I had exactly the same, TCU has water in it, i took mine out and dried it for a couple of days and then taped up all the joints with waterproof tape and put it back in. Didnt work as expected at first but now it seems ok. Chris said I probably need a new TCU but he didnt have any at the time

Thanks Dave
I had a new TCU 2wks ago as well as updates
Not ridden or got wet since but still have a fault
I'm out of ideas ?

 

[ccrdave]

Thanks Dave
I had a new TCU 2wks ago as well as updates
Not ridden or got wet since but still have a fault
I'm out of ideas ?

have you tried another battery? I am away this weekend but usually around if you need access to another battery

 

[StuR]

have you tried another battery? I am away this weekend but usually around if you need access to another battery

Not tried that
Might be worth a punt
Think we live fairly close to each other .
Your in the FOD as well If I recall
Can you let me know when it's convenient please ?
Thanks

 

[ccrdave]

Not tried that
Might be worth a punt
Think we live fairly close to each other .
Your in the FOD as well If I recall
Can you let me know when it's convenient please ?
Thanks

yes im in the forest im around all next week drop me a pm and I give you my address or we could meet somewhere

 

[StuR]

yes im in the forest im around all next week drop me a pm and I give you my address or we could meet somewhere

Thanks Dave I'll PM you

 

[Mikerb]

the 1.2/3 motors had the power socket in a different orientation so there was no bend in the cable. According to electrical engineering standards on cable bends, the one in the 2019 levo exceeds those by quite a bit, do you think a shorter straight cable will regenerate more heat than an over bent one?

No should be within limits. The bend radius minimum is to prevent insulation/sheath damage. There is now no sheath on the bent section and the wires are unshielded so the minimum radius is 8 times the wire diameter. The biggest wires are the pos and neg wires each probably 2mm so bend radius 16mm.

 

[Mikerb]

My Levo 19 had developed an intermittent power on/off issue
Took it back to Berkshire cycles about 4 wks ago as the power cable was split .
New cable and diagnostic check , dry off electrical bits - seemed ok .
Back in 2wks later - similar intermittent fault
New TCU , software update , dry off electrical bits again - seemed ok
Haven't ridden or got it wet since but been checking on/off switch and seem to have another fault .
Wont switch on initially , have to unplug power cable and plug back in then switch on TCU - then it powers up and seems to behave.
Come back next day and same problem .
I'm Not happy !!!!!!
Gonna try and risk a ride today but confidence in the fix is low .
Chris and his team have been awesome.
I've informed him of the current issue and said I would monitor for a couple of rides/wks and keep him posted .
But the prospect of a 3rd 5hr round trip in a month is not ideal .

Anyone had similar fault/fixes ?

No....but from your description logic suggests the problem is with the rosenburg connection and since the power lead is new that leaves the battery end of that connection, or the way in which the connection is ( or is not) being made and held by the magnetic force. It sounds like it is not making a sound connection. The battery part of the plug is male with 2 pins. It also has 4 gold flat contacts. Maybe check that the pins are not loose or bent and are clean. Also check the 4 gold contact are clean. If debris gets into the Rosenburg plug it gets shoved by the pins into the female counterparts ( oo er missus!) of the power lead plug and can be difficult to spot without using a torch for close examination. It could also be that the power lead part of the Rosenburg connection is not seating correctly maybe due to a burr on the shamfered face or a O ring not properly seated or debris in the female counterpart for the pins. All worth a check!

 

[RCDallas]

do you think a shorter straight cable will regenerate more heat than an over bent one?

A shorter cable of the same gauge wire would have less resistance therefore produce less heat.

 

[StuR]

No....but from your description logic suggests the problem is with the rosenburg connection and since the power lead is new that leaves the battery end of that connection, or the way in which the connection is ( or is not) being made and held by the magnetic force. It sounds like it is not making a sound connection. The battery part of the plug is male with 2 pins. It also has 4 gold flat contacts. Maybe check that the pins are not loose or bent and are clean. Also check the 4 gold contact are clean. If debris gets into the Rosenburg plug it gets shoved by the pins into the female counterparts ( oo er missus!) of the power lead plug and can be difficult to spot without using a torch for close examination. It could also be that the power lead part of the Rosenburg connection is not seating correctly maybe due to a burr on the shamfered face or a O ring not properly seated or debris in the female counterpart for the pins. All worth a check!

That makes a lot of sense
I'll have a good look at that connection , especially the battery end ,and give it some love
I'll report back
Thanks

 

[ccrdave]

A shorter cable of the same gauge wire would have less resistance therefore produce less heat.

Yes thats what I thought and possibly better battery performance as well
We successfully build electronic controlled devices that are designed to work in up to 2-3 hundred meters of seawater surely Spesh can design something that keeps the rain out!!

 

[StuR]

Yes thats what I thought and possibly better battery performance as well
We successfully build electronic controlled devices that are designed to work in up to 2-3 hundred meters of seawater surely Spesh can design something that keeps the rain out!!

Totally agree Dave
Had a similar thought to your analogy having spent 25 yrs underwater most wkends

 

[Rob555]

Took my dead levo to my local Specialized store today. As you can guess it was the cable causing the issues!
As said many times already it baffles me how this can be an issue, the mechanic said it had been put in to tightly and that he always checks them before sending any new bikes out to customers. At which point I raised the question “How can that be? I buy Specialized for top craftsmanship, I buy for reliability”
He wasn’t to impressed and got a little defensive blaming non Specialized stores for not caring.
I also mentioned I’d seen a lot of levo faults in forums which he really didn’t like at all.
So even though in warranty I still had to fork out £104, £79.90 I’ll be getting back once the store has claimed back from HO. I’m just a little pissed at paying for the time to fix it.

 

[nobbyq]

Shouldn’t of paid it , I would of refused

 

[NULevo]

Spent some time cleaning the Levo today and took the opportunity to have a look behind the engine cover. It looked fairly clean and dry in there, its its had a couple of muddy runs, but it looks like the Muddhugger and improvised cover have done their job. The question I have is whether its possible to tell which version of power cable it is?

 

[Mikerb]

its not the latest revised cable which I think they class as Version 3.Pic of latest version is a bout 25 post up the page.

 

[NULevo]

its not the latest revised cable which I think they class as Version 3.Pic of latest version is a bout 25 post up the page.

Thanks Mike, wanted to check, now I know if anything happens it's likely to be the cable.

 

[Paceman]

Spent some time cleaning the Levo today and took the opportunity to have a look behind the engine cover. It looked fairly clean and dry in there, its its had a couple of muddy runs, but it looks like the Muddhugger and improvised cover have done their job. The question I have is whether its possible to tell which version of power cable it is?

View attachment 25324

Looks nice and clean in there though, which is a good sign that the mudhugger is doing it's job.

 

[Mikerb]

You might want to check the picture and extract from the service manual I posted above showing how the cable should be installed. Yours is not installed correctly according to that and pressure is being applied to the d section of the motor plug......that is where some have had that d section split open.