Fazua Ride 60 Test

[Zimmerframe]

Perhaps we should get you journos to educate their readers that range is in reality one of the least desirable tests to base on the next time they get their wallets out to buy a new stead.

That maybe the case. But the one consistent is that battery's get larger because people want more range - as you say, motor's are not suddenly becoming more efficient or more powerful by any margin. This is the same with lightweights - (320wh > 360wh > 430wh).

It might be undesirable as a test, but when people get their wallets out, they want to know the bike will give them the ride time/runs/distance they have in their mind as a requirement.

Yes, we can all select different modes and even change the power in those modes, but it's still nice to have some baseline minimum you could expect.

Someone might make a dreamy smooth, quiet, supportive motor which weighs 1kg, the bike might be the most incredible thing ever to ride. But if you find that the most you can get out of it with full assistance is 10km's and 500m's climbing because they screwed something up along the way in how the power is used/delivered, it's going to have a very niche market because you're close to the balance point where you have to turn the assistance down so much to get usable range that you might as well buy the version without a motor and have an even lighter, cheaper more reliable bike.

 

[Waynemarlow]

so it provides me with a ‘rough’ idea of what the Fazua 60 is capable of

And rough it would be, even in your own words

.... due to being too many variables in the equation

 

[mxengineer1]

Answered a few posts ago ..

Fazua Ride 60 Test

Yesterday I rode a Ride 60 bike with the 430Wh battery. I rode it in Turbo and maxxed out the assistance to kick in at minimum pedal effort. Here is the Fazua Ride 60 Range and early thoughts. I got down to 4% battery showing on the app (from 100%, full charge) and the bike was pretty much done...

www.emtbforums.com

"From Rob: There is a lot of marketing about the Ride 60 being 450 watts. But in reality it’s a peak of 350 watts for most the riding (99% of the time), with the Boost feature giving an extra 100 watts only for 12 seconds, activated by holding up on a few seconds on the remote."

So the new 60 motor peaks at 450W (for 12 secs max) with peak of 350W (while the 50 motor plate on the Trek Domane+ says 400W) and the peak torque remains the same at 60Nm for both the 50 and 60 motors? Does the new 60 motor "feel" stronger when ridden back to back with the 50 series motor?

 

[Waynemarlow]

The new ride 50 motor is supposed to be 350W's and yet the software will only allow a max of 300W's as per the old Evation motor. Lots of dicrepencies from Fazua let alone Trek adding in a new 400W figure which I've not seen elsewhere.

 

[Rod B.]

Rob, thank you for the review. Much appreciated and helpful. Don't you just hate manufacturer embargos on bikes? As a side note, I've placed an order for the new Pivot Shuttle SL. It will replace my Orbea Rise which is starting to rack up a lot of miles. The SL's are being released mid September. The bike comes with the Ride 60 and 430WH battery. America is pretty much an anti eBike country. Pivot knew what they were doing with the "Stealth" feature.

I'm much looking forward to your review of the bike and would absolutely love a new "Mega Motor Test" comparison with the TQ and Fazua 60 motors added. I enjoyed your last Mega Motor Test Review.


Pivot Shuttle SL

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes, we can all select different modes and even change the power in those modes, but it's still nice to have some baseline minimum you could expect.

The one big advantage over most on the older 50 and some of the new 60's is the way Fazua tends to have very easily changed battery capability, takes less than a minute to pop a new battery in. That baseline then becomes a bit academic.

Got to admit I haven't ridden with full fat bikes having to use max power to keep up such is the trail riding on single track I mainly do, must do it sometime and see just how quickly I would need to change a battery over, suspect not as quickly as first thought.

 

[Tubby G]

And rough it would be, even in your own words

You seem to be nit-picking and trying to cause an argument, not sure why

A ‘rough’ idea of how a bike performs is all I need

I’m perfectly happy with my Orbea Rise, it’s an awesome bike and does everything I need it to do. IF I was to consider a new bike (which I’m not, but IF) then the Transition Relay is the bike I’m interested in, with the Fazua motor

From watching Rob’s videos, I know he’s a tall guy, so probably a similar weight to me, ride’s similar trails and soil conditions in the UK, so I now know that I could ‘roughly’ get almost 2 hrs riding in full boost mode with a similar distance and elevation to what I ride in my local woods. Tone that down to real life riding conditions, with a mixture of trail & eco (not sure on the modes of the Fazua), and we can expect to get more time on the saddle than purely in full turbo or boost mode

If you want exact science then you’d have to take these bikes into a lab for testing, but where’s the fun in that ?

 

[Tubby G]

Got to admit I haven't ridden with full fat bikes having to use max power to keep up such is the trail riding on single track I mainly do, must do it sometime and see just how quickly I would need to change a battery over, suspect not as quickly as first thought.

Funnily enough, we went on a group ride last weekend, 4 lightweight bikes, 10 full fats (might have been 9, didn’t actually count!)

I was a little apprehensive beforehand thinking I’d be struggling t keep up. How wrong I was. The three Rise’s pretty much lead the pace all day (we did all have range extenders on) and finished the day with more battery left than the full fats. The other lightweight guy was on an SL, rode in ECO all day and had around 70% left at the end of the ride

One of the full fats on a 500Wh battery had to retire early due to range anxiety. Not sure how the other full fats performed in terms of how much battery was left but I do know that none of us on lightweight bikes were concerned about range or struggled to keep up with the pace

 

[Waynemarlow]

If you want exact science then you’d have to take these bikes into a lab for testing, but where’s the fun in that ?

Might just dispatch a lot of the nonsense that is written here on these forums about range.

No not trying to create a "range" issue, just really fed up the way bike testers go out of their way to test a new motor and immediately tell us about its range, when in real truth the motor will be about as efficient as every other motor out there. Sorry guys range is all about reference to the tyres, rider weight, bike suspension, trail conditions, rider input & fitness, amount of climb, temperature, battery size & condition, among about 20 other variables.

Sorry to repeat it but range has little to do with the actual motor, which will be comparible to all others already out there.

 

[Shjay]

Reckon an Ibis ebike

 

[Mcharza]

Have to be a Porsche.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Have to be a Porsche.

Would they start with Porsche ? Or Skoda ???

 

[wdonegan]

"The three Rise’s pretty much lead the pace all day (we did all have range extenders on) and finished the day with more battery left than the full fats."

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Aren't you just riding what is effectively a full fat with a motor limited to 60nm at that point?

 

[Waynemarlow]

Have to be a Porsche.

Porsche does own Fazua, might be a good call.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Would they start with Porsche ? Or Skoda ???

Depends on whether its a carbon or Ali frame

 

[irie]

Spoiler: OK, this is Crazy

View attachment 95620

I didn’t expect it be be a bike guessing game, but the intrigue is definitely brewing!

I’ll definitely do a TQ vs Fazua Ride 60 detailed comparison video.

Future is looking bright for lightweight ebikes for sure!

Orange = KTM

 

[Tubby G]

"The three Rise’s pretty much lead the pace all day (we did all have range extenders on) and finished the day with more battery left than the full fats."

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Aren't you just riding what is effectively a full fat with a motor limited to 60nm at that point?

The internal battery is 360Wh, the range extender is 250Wh, so together that’s 610Wh, so yes the equivalent battery power of a full fat

However, the bike feels nothing like a full fat, it feels like a normal bike, even with the range extender added. All I can suggest is that you try one for yourself and feel the difference compared to a full fat. With a lighter bike and slightly less peak power, but the equivalent battery capacity of a full fat, the bike will go much further

Also, 60Nm is more than enough power, especially on a lighter bike. 60Nm is only used in full boost mode. I mainly ride in Eco or Trail so using around 30-40Nm. Only use Boost on the steepest climbs, or if I’m having a quick turbo (boost) hour for a bit of lazy fun

I have a full fat too, with the Bosch Gen 4 625W battery, A Haibike AllMtn. That bike feels like a heavy cumbersome tank in comparison. In my experience I don’t feel like I’m riding the full fat, I’m simply turning the pedals and the motor does all the work. with the lightweight bike I feel like I’m riding it, and that’s quite satisfying

 

[Richridesmtb]

Rob, thank you for the review. Much appreciated and helpful. Don't you just hate manufacturer embargos on bikes? As a side note, I've placed an order for the new Pivot Shuttle SL. It will replace my Orbea Rise which is starting to rack up a lot of miles. The SL's are being released mid September. The bike comes with the Ride 60 and 430WH battery. America is pretty much an anti eBike country. Pivot knew what they were doing with the "Stealth" feature.

I'm much looking forward to your review of the bike and would absolutely love a new "Mega Motor Test" comparison with the TQ and Fazua 60 motors added. I enjoyed your last Mega Motor Test Review.


Pivot Shuttle SL

Rod, who will keep the technical side of the orbea forum updated?

 

[Rod B.]

Rod, who will keep the technical side of the orbea forum updated?

Rich, I’m selling my Rise to my brother. I’ll still be working on the bike and posting tech articles on the Orbea forum. My next article will be servicing Fox forks and various fork modifications. I’m sure I’ll be posting articles on the Pivot when I begin modifying the bike. Speaking of which we need a Pivot Forum.

 

[flash]

Might just dispatch a lot of the nonsense that is written here on these forums about range.

No not trying to create a "range" issue, just really fed up the way bike testers go out of their way to test a new motor and immediately tell us about its range, when in real truth the motor will be about as efficient as every other motor out there. Sorry guys range is all about reference to the tyres, rider weight, bike suspension, trail conditions, rider input & fitness, amount of climb, temperature, battery size & condition, among about 20 other variables.

Sorry to repeat it but range has little to do with the actual motor, which will be comparible to all others already out there.

Yes, but it does save us doing the calculations. Does bike A with motor X and battery Y have enough range to go as far as bike B with motor Q and battery R? Rob or Drew or Sam doing these tests across multiple bkes, ignoring the claims of the manufacturers does give me information that is useful. I own bike 1. If I buy bike 2 I can use Robs experience comparing them to have an idea if bike 2 will suit the needs I have regarding range.

My eZesty doesn’t *feel* like 55nM. Not compared to my MUCH more powerful 60nM Eon drive motor bike.

Same as when they put a bike on a scale rather than just relying on a claim made by the manufacturer.

I’m more interested in comparisons and some rough real world calculations as I am raw figures provided my the manufacturers as sometimes I don’t think they’re providing those figures in a way that is comparable.

Gordon

 

[Jeff McD]

Wayne Marlow: "Maybe, but it does annoy me sometimes when biking journos pop up with the latest release motor and then do a test giving initial thoughts on the motor when infact all they have done is a battery test."
Sorry, you missed the point entirely.
What is the point? I ride a full fat levo 2022 with the fast group, and I need that power and 700 whr battery for our favorite regular ride to the top of the mountain, 4000 feet of climbing in 16 miles, 4-5 hours with occasional stops to take in the view, regroup after the worst climbs, and a lunch break at the peak. Many ungodly steep climbs sprinkled frequently throughout the ride.
However, the bike simply weighs too much to be completely enjoyable, and also adversely affects the handling on high speed tight technical decsents. Those who say this weight disappears when the bike starts moving aren't riding fast enough.
The point is that I really look forward to the day when I can ride a 35 pound light weight ebike that can also perform as well on this ride. Rob's review brilliantly tells me that this motor is not there yet. It'll punk out on steep climbs and the 12 second boost feature is not going to be the answer in that situation. 100% of my climbs exceed 12 seconds.
I figured these bikes are 5 to 10 years away anyway with solid state batteries and nano motors but it's fun to explore the new Tech along the way, no?
In this regard I believe you have distorted a great "early review" for whatever preconceived reason.

 

[Waynemarlow]

The point is that I really look forward to the day when I can ride a 35 pound light weight ebike that can also perform as well on this ride.

Dreams are free, average weight of a non EBike full suspension these days are up around 29 - 30lbs ( excluding the exotics, just your average bike that anyone can afford ), motors even the lightest say 6lbs batteries say another 6lbs before you add in displays and wiring and larger brakes etc etc. Thats not going to change much in the next few decades I'm afraid.

Great you need your full fat because you want to be in the fast group, perfect thats your choice. Equally anyone of the major brands will do that climb, but not all will suit you and your requirements, hence we all buy different bikes. Equally if you slowed down even just few mph the physics surrounding power and battery power storage will dictate that you will use a lot less W/hs to get to the top, you could fit a smaller lighter battery. Going to the extreme of a very small lightweight engine say of 350W's ( Fazua 50 ) at by memory around 2lbs but with say a couple of teeth less on the front cog ( remember in climbing its not the power the engine will put out but how much torque is transmitted via the gearing to the rear wheel = battery requirement ) will do that climb, just at a slower average mph.

In this regard I believe you have distorted a great "early review" for whatever preconceived reason.

So Rob going hammer and tongs to simply flatten the battery of the bike to see the range of the bike, how does that tell you how the motor is going to perform ? He could have been out the previous night on the lash and could only average a pathetic amount of human input up the hills. Or he could have drunk the perfect amount of energy drink and honed himself for the day of the test ( as I'm sure he always does ). That basic difference in human power input would probably change his figures dramatically giving probably another 30 minutes of range. Perhaps he had a flattish tyre and didn't realise ? Even perhaps the bikes suspension wasn't set up correctly and thus was absorbing energy needlessly on every jump and bump, dissipating loads of energy in the form of heat. Had he had a largish lunch and supper before riding, try carrying ten full buckets up a short hill, now 1/2 empty the buckets and see which uses the least energy ( thats battery Whs to you and me ).

There are so many variables all inputting into the final range calculation guys, that these tests in my view are totally meaningless and in some ways harsh on the manufacturers, as these guys can make or break a bike on that first review, which indeed he has with your words

Rob's review brilliantly tells me that this motor is not there yet.

.

 

[RustyMTB]

You sound like a right barrel of laughs.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Message from FAZUA about Garmin connectivity:

"Hello Rob, there seems to be a problem with the Garmin devices at the moment but we are working on a solution. At the moment it is still unclear whether this is due to the current Garmin software. I hope everything else is fine with your RIDE 60 bike "

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Fair enough but could you clarify things a bit at the beginning that you are going to rag the motor at full power and you are only interested in the range it can produce over 1000m's of climb. Is that really a test of the motor ?

Isnt that exactly what I mentioned in the first post?!

I don't know why you're so hung up about this range... You're making quite a fuss over it There's also a few other points I mentioned about the motor system that hopefully are of some use to folks, like:

Early thoughts:
- Decent power at max assist with the 12 second boost it gets a little kick which is great
- although, that 12 second boost will try to kill you if you activate it on a very techy climb, when it drops out after 12 seconds and you stall the bike
- remote is a bit cheap feeling, flimsy and plasticy. Also can’t run brake lever close enough to grip for my personal preference
- motor isn’t quite as smooth as TQ
- freewheeling makes a bit of a noise a bit like a loud hub. No noticeable rattle on descents. Motor ratchets when you backpedal.
- motor is pretty quiet under load (WAY quieter than Levo SL, but NOT near silent like TQ)
- LED plastic top tube mount is cheap looking, bright LED’s don’t look good. Way too bright when ambient sunlight drops.
- Only 5 bars, no percentage, no increments in 10% levels (the LED bars represent 20% battery increments
- App is basic. No ANT+ built in to the drive system to connect to Garmin watch for power / cadence levels etc

 

[Waynemarlow]

You sound like a right barrel of laughs.

Oh thats a bit tough, facts are facts, pints are pints, they can mix.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I don't know why you're so hung up about this range...

Your Forum, your reviews, just suggesting that range due to the varibility is a bit meaningless as per the way you tested.

Any chance of a brief review on how the motor performs across its riding useability, leaving range and max power out of the equation ( it will probably be no different than all the previous motors ), on a first ride basis ?

 

[aarfeldt]

Your Forum, your reviews.

Why dont you make your own forum/reviews ?
There are many free www adresses available....then you can make your own reviews after your own method - everyone is happy

 

[Rod B.]

Your Forum, your reviews, just suggesting that range due to the varibility is a bit meaningless as per the way you tested.

Any chance of a brief review on how the motor performs across its riding useability, leaving range and max power out of the equation ( it will probably be no different than all the previous motors ), on a first ride basis ?

Wayne,

Everybody on this forum knows there are many variables such as rider weight, tires, terrain, etc, that affect eBike range. We know this....it doesn't need to be said, brother. Belaboring a point makes you sound difficult. If a person is on this forum, then that person knows, rides and likes bikes. We know what Rob provides isn't hard and fast laboratory specific testing. Rob provides a general understanding, much like riders sharing details about a bike, post ride over a beer. Take it for what it is.... With the information he provides, such as his Strava ride, I can extrapolate what I need to know about the new system, the rest I can get on my own when I burn the wheels off of the bike.

Cheers,
Rod

 

[Zimmerframe]

Any chance of a brief review on how the motor performs across its riding useability

There is a lot of marketing about the Ride 60 being 450 watts. But in reality it’s a peak of 350 watts for most the riding (99% of the time), with the Boost feature giving an extra 100 watts only for 12 seconds, activated by holding up on a few seconds on the remote.

Decent power at max assist with the 12 second boost it gets a little kick which is great

freewheeling makes a bit of a noise a bit like a loud hub. No noticeable rattle on descents. Motor ratchets when you backpedal.
- motor is pretty quiet under load (WAY quieter than Levo SL, but NOT near silent like TQ)

Overall, good system, power to weight is decent, quiet (but not silent)

The Fazua gives almost full power at low RPM, and by 55rpm is giving full power