ZF Motor and eco system

[Mikerb]

Whist speculation of Bosch gen 5 is rife and DJI is stealing the headlines, not much is being discussed about the new ZF motor and eco system.
ZF is huge automotive parts manufacturer with an enviable reputation for the supply of class leading components. It has a " Micro Mobility division purely focused on the sort of products of interest to the cycle industry....including EMTB.
They launched their latest motor and complete eco system this year albeit it is currently only available with the Raymon Tarok as far as mtb is concerned. It is however a completely open system suggesting any brand could use their motor and complete the eco system with their own batteries etc or mix and match with ZF components.

Basic stats are in line with other motor options....90nm, 600w peak and 2.5kg weight. Unlike most motors it is a 48v system.

Size and fitting are however very different to most motors. It uses a single axle design so that it is a pure cylinder shape 88mm radius and 118mm wide. It also has no mounting points but is secured to the bb area with a strap ( a lug on the motor casing locates it. Motor removal is therefore simple.
Tests using the Raymon suggest it is quiet in operation and silent downhill.( no rattling). ZF also offers a battery rail system similar to the Bosch rail to prevent battery rattle and disconnection.
Seems tailor made for some of the boutique brands but could also attract one or more major brands in time?

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

Think it also runs in a oil bath, so potential water ingress should be minimal and reduces noise. Did you know ZF is what was Zeppelin of airship fame? More reviews required me thinks.

 

[ari]

Im waiting for this , nothing really out there to look forward to apart from the ZF , as said , oil path so could last for decades , if no oil coming out no water going in.

 

[gbcoke]

ZF sure did nail the motor side of the system but imo missed on all other aspect unfortunately.
Heavy old cell type batteries, Wired remote, Led only integrated display ...
These days the entire system needs to be considered.

 

[Mikerb]

 

[Pedec]

ZF sure did nail the motor side of the system but imo missed on all other aspect unfortunately.
Heavy old cell type batteries, Wired remote, Led only integrated display ...
These days the entire system needs to be considered.

I personally do not care about that other stuff i just need 4 modes and a walk button and for it to keep working. 90nm is plenty. 70nm is fine on what i ride now.

 

[Dax]

ZF sure did nail the motor side of the system but imo missed on all other aspect unfortunately.
Heavy old cell type batteries, Wired remote, Led only integrated display ...
These days the entire system needs to be considered.

Wired remote doesn’t sound like a bad thing? One less battery to fail?

 

[Goff]

ZF sure did nail the motor side of the system but imo missed on all other aspect unfortunately.
Heavy old cell type batteries, Wired remote, Led only integrated display ...
These days the entire system needs to be considered.

Heavy old batteriies?
I understood that all manufacturers still the same cells 18650 or 21700?
Both are 3.8 - 3.9 g/Wh
Are there new cells that are better than this?

 

[Mikerb]

ZF say it is an open system which I assume means the motor can be partnered by system components other than the ZF ones. It suggests the ZF overall system components were not really a priority for ZF.

 

[gbcoke]

Heavy old batteriies?
I understood that all manufacturers still the same cells 18650 or 21700?
Both are 3.8 - 3.9 g/Wh
Are there new cells that are better than this?

ZF 504w weighs 3.2kg while Orbea/BH 630w is 2.7kg and Bosch 600w is 3kg.
Bosch 800w is 3.9kg and ZF 756w is 4.2kg .
Also the form factor of the ZF battery is pretty big ,Maybe more than Bosch even.
For cells,Bosch/DJI uses most up to date 5.8a 21700 cells,not sure if ZF are using the same (not all 21700 cells are equal).

Wireless remote may be a preference,but for me wireless is the way .

Last thing ,I really believe a high quality top tube integrated screen is the way to go going forward, led controllers are pretty "old school"

 

[Mikerb]

ZF 504w weighs 3.2kg while Orbea/BH 630w is 2.7kg and Bosch 600w is 3kg.
Bosch 800w is 3.9kg and ZF 756w is 4.2kg .
Also the form factor of the ZF battery is pretty big ,Maybe more than Bosch even.
For cells,Bosch/DJI uses most up to date 5.8a 21700 cells,not sure if ZF are using the same (not all 21700 cells are equal).

Wireless remote may be a preference,but for me wireless is the way .

Last thing ,I really believe a high quality top tube integrated screen is the way to go going forward, led controllers are pretty "old school"

Except as Speshs TCU showed putting sensitive electronics in an enclosed tube (ie top tube) is an environment subject to condensation and humidity. The LED Remote may be more prone to crash damage but not subjected to that sort of environment and is plug and play to replace. I prefer it!

 

[Goff]

ZF 504w weighs 3.2kg while Orbea/BH 630w is 2.7kg and Bosch 600w is 3kg.
Bosch 800w is 3.9kg and ZF 756w is 4.2kg .
Also the form factor of the ZF battery is pretty big ,Maybe more than Bosch even.
For cells,Bosch/DJI uses most up to date 5.8a 21700 cells,not sure if ZF are using the same (not all 21700 cells are equal).

Wireless remote may be a preference,but for me wireless is the way .

Last thing ,I really believe a high quality top tube integrated screen is the way to go going forward, led controllers are pretty "old school"

Agreed the batteries seem heavy, maybe there some motor controller smarts in the battery.

 

[ari]

Agreed the batteries seem heavy, maybe there some motor controller smarts in the battery.

Could be a stronger/beefier case , i put a battery recently on top a wheelie bin , it just slid off onto concrete , i thought it was damaged, but thank goodness it wasnt.

 

[Mikerb]

I think more recent battery design also has cell layout construction that effectively isolates each cell to prevent thermal runaway. That presumably has an impact on battery size and weight.

 

[darwink1]

I don't understand why a transmission manufacturer wouldn't build an mgu... That's just missed opportunity there imop.

D

 

[Mikerb]

I don't understand why a transmission manufacturer wouldn't build an mgu... That's just missed opportunity there imop.

D

the development of their motor probably began quite some time ago so maybe before MGUs hit the scene. It may well be their next phase of development now that the motor element of that has been completed though.