Zeb Select + 160mm Mixed Bag

[dixie600mhz]

I have a 2021 Rail 9.8XT that came with the Zeb 160mm Select +. I've been trying to tune this mofo for a month now with mixed success. I still have constant wrist pain during/after long rides.

I'm 200 lbs with gear. My shockwiz matches my sag with comp ratio 2.7 using two spacer tokens. I get 30% sag at 54psi on the wiz that matches actual observed on the markers. Much lower psi than recommended spec but it is what it is. My compression is wide open and rebound only 3 or 4 clicks from fully closed. I see about 90% travel and haven't really bottomed out based on the oring and the shock wiz. This is with 2' to 3' drops and lots of medium jumps. There's a lot of stiction with this fork. It seems to be super sticking before it starts moving and in general is a really stiff fork, even at just 54psi.

On my other bikes with fox 34 and 36 I have no issues at much higher psi. I can get them super dialed and plush. No wrist shake with either. It's only the ZEB that's a PITA to find the right setup. This afternoon I just removed one of the two factory tokens and went back to 53psi to try and find harmony. My wrists are getting tired of being beat up with this nasty fork. Tomorro is a new day with only single token testing.

The crazy part is that I'm pretty happy with the rear rockshox delux ultimate through shaft on the back. It's the zeb on the front thats starting to get under my skin.

 

[Mikerb]

Thats a very low inflation pressure so I suspect the fork is not equalized or excess grease is preventing it from equalising. I assume you meant rebound was was 3 or 4 clicks from fully open rather than from closed?? If not I suggest you reduce your rebound to that.
You could try slowly deflating the fork then re inflating it by pushing the fork through c 30% of its travel every 10 psi. Do that with compression fully open. Inflate to c 80 psi and see where you are then with SAG. If that makes no difference I think you need to consider a lower leg service either DIY or via a lbs/suspension specialist.

 

[Gary]

Do a lower leg service. making sure the air spring and damper are smooth and working as they should and while you're putting it back together test for actual stiction between the seals/bushings and stanchions.
Then start again with your set-up.
Personally I'd bin the shockwiz and do it properly but that's your call not mine.

It's definitely worth opening up a new fork and performing a lower leg service early on. Trust me it wouldn't be the first fork to come with not enough grease on the seals, dry foam rings or barely any lubricating fluid in the lowers.
Oh.. and pretty much every fork also has far too much grease on the head of the airspring from new.

 

[Orangie]

Just select here. Totally different options. Plush as hell and take big hit. 210 pounds. 75 psi. No tokens. 3 or 4 clicks from closed rebound

 

[GrandesRoues]

I was in the same camp.
Using silicon spray on the exposed sliding parts and backing up slow speed compression helped.
I heard a lot of stories of RS fork coming from the factory with poor lubrification, and plan on doing a lower leg service. I think you should try one too.

 

[dixie600mhz]

Thanks guys, doing the lower leg service this morning and will report back. Appreciate all the advice.

 

[highpeakrider]

Mine felt like a completely different fork after new oil, I doubt it had the correct volume from new.

 

[dixie600mhz]

I did the lower and upper service today. The upper seals were bone dry. In the lower there was some oil in the damper side. Barely any oil in the lower air spring side.

I gave everything a good clean with IPA then greased it all lightly. Following the manual I added 20ml 0W-30 to each lower, soaked the seals and added 3ml 0W-30 to the air spring upper.

It feels a lot better just bouncing on it in the garage. The stiction issue is definitely fixed. Now I'm getting 30% sag at 66psi. Will ride 100 miles or so this week and tweak. It has to be better than it was before.

 

[Mcharza]

Lower leg service is always just like a miracle

 

[Like a Boss]

Related to this Zeb Select+ fork- how do you adjust the LSC compression dial when riding? I think I counted 22 clicks on that big dial, and it takes five big turns of the hand to go from full open to full closed. It's not practical, for example, to crank the dial closed to ride up a fireroad, and then make five long turns to open it back up for a downhill, rough trail. Fortunately the fork has a lot of support and doesn't seem to dive into the travel when on switch backs and so forth, but 22 clicks of adjustment seems like too much. I have a Lyrik fork with the Charger 2.1 RC2 (ultimate) damper and the LSC big dial only has four clicks so it's super easy to firm up the fork or open it fully.
How do riders ride this fork?
I have been leaving it a 3-4 clicks clockwise from full open. So, full open, and dial three or four clicks in the closed direction. And I leave it there.

 

[dixie600mhz]

I don't adjust mine while riding. I'm still fighting the zeb and have the compression set full open. It still feels quite harsh but not as bad as it was before the lower leg service. I'm 200lbs with gear and have removed all tokens (it came with two installed) and am running 68psi.

I can ride my other bikes all day with no issues. Ride the rail with the zeb and get numb hands and sore wrists after 10 miles or so.

 

[Like a Boss]

I'm not sure what Rockshox was doing when they set the baseline pressure recommendations. I weigh about 205 with gear, and I am at least 10 psi lower than your 68 psi. That could explain your harshness. I need to check again, but I think I am at 56 psi, and I still don't use all the travel, and the fork has good support and is smooth. The Zeb is very sensitive to PSI so even a couple PSI makes a noticeable difference. If I may make a recommendation, try 4-5 psi less than recommended. And keep the tokens out like you have already done. 68 psi is probably way too high.
I have found this fork to be very smooth and supportive. I can not find any harsh characteristic in this fork. I have not ridden a coil fork for any length of time, but this fork closes the gap. I don't see how you could get smoother in an air fork.
Other than too many clicks of LSC adjustment, I can't see a reason to change this damper, especially when Rockshox wants $330 usd for the RC2.

Experiment with your psi in the fork. Don't be afraid to disregard the recommended settings. This Zeb is a good fork.

 

[Mikerb]

Related to this Zeb Select+ fork- how do you adjust the LSC compression dial when riding? I think I counted 22 clicks on that big dial, and it takes five big turns of the hand to go from full open to full closed. It's not practical, for example, to crank the dial closed to ride up a fireroad, and then make five long turns to open it back up for a downhill, rough trail. Fortunately the fork has a lot of support and doesn't seem to dive into the travel when on switch backs and so forth, but 22 clicks of adjustment seems like too much. I have a Lyrik fork with the Charger 2.1 RC2 (ultimate) damper and the LSC big dial only has four clicks so it's super easy to firm up the fork or open it fully.
How do riders ride this fork?
I have been leaving it a 3-4 clicks clockwise from full open. So, full open, and dial three or four clicks in the closed direction. And I leave it there.

Bit confused a bout what fork you were referring to in each part of the above.! Referring to the Lyric Ultimate, the "big dial" is HSC not LSC. HSC has 4 stops of adjustment. LSC has 16 or maybe 17. I leave LSC setting alone on the Lyric set currently at 8 stops from open. HSC I have set at 1 stop from open and would adjust to 2 if the trail had some bigger drops and jumps. Adjusting LSC will have little or no effect on how the bike handles harsher hits at speed.

 

[Like a Boss]

From the Rockshox description of the Zeb Select+ "Our highest performing Charger technology. The Charger 2.1 RC damper features easy to adjust low speed compression and rebound – designed to reduce hand fatigue and fight unwanted friction, the Charger 2.1 damper increases confidence and control over every trail."

They make it confusing. On the Select+ there is only the big dial, which must be like you said, HSC. The LSC is the small dial in the middle of the RC2 (Ultimate) damper. And yes, HSC on the RC2 is four clicks total range, and LSC is what you said- 16 or 17. I agree that LSC does not have much effect on the "harshness" of the fork.

I did verify that I run 59 psi on my Select+ Zeb. I'm not sure what the sag looks like, but I am on 170mm travel fork and I use about 160mm on a local high speed trail with some features and some bumps. I have never bottomed the fork. I counted that there are 18 clicks of HSC. Not sure how to adjust that many clicks, but I go full open (CCW) and then dial in 3 or 4 clicks CW. There is no harshness in my fork. If the HSC is dialled in too much, I suspect that there could be some harshness, but I think too much air pressure contributes to harshness more than too much HSC.

 

[Mikerb]

If the Select+ ZEB only has one compression dial it is LSC not HSC and 3/4 clicks is probably too little given the total range of 18. LSC controls the damping of lower speed fork compression typically only in the first 3rd to half of the forks travel. If you have no HSC dial on that fork the control over higher speed fork travel is factory set.

 

[Like a Boss]

I just got back from a ride on the Zeb Select+ aired up to 59 psi for my 205 pound body. This fork is rad. So smooth. If there is a better air fork then it must be really good. I have an Assagai front tire, EXO+ with cushcore at about 19 psi. Lots of grip and very smooth. One of these days I'm going to take the cushcore out up front though. I don't think I need it in the front.

I think most forks I have ridden with only one compression adjustment have been HSC. Isn't a lockout an HSC function? I rode a Fox 36 with a Grip damper that would lock out when fully dialled in. That damper was decent, but not as smooth as this Charger damper. Of course the Grip2 is the super rad damper, but the Grip was decent. This Zeb fork will not really lockout if the big dial is cranked in, so it must be LSC. So if the Select+ has 18 clicks of LSC.....well then, the factory set HSC is pretty good. I really can't complain about it. It's quite smooth. And it doesn't give up mid stroke support. When you think it will collapse and put you over the bars, it does not. Very good fork.

 

[Like a Boss]

So how much LSC should I dial in? There are 18 clicks....What am I looking for?

 

[Mikerb]

So how much LSC should I dial in? There are 18 clicks....What am I looking for?

Nope......if there is only one compression dial it is LSC............you can on some shocks/forks dial it up or switch it to near lockout . The lockout is designed to help with pedalling and climbing. That setting restricts oil flow through the damper....it is not a mechanical lock.
You set LSC to enable the bike to smoothly tackle undulating ground, trail chatter, as well as provide support in constant compression scenarios like a berm. Set it too light and the bike will rock front to back on undulating ground and sink into mid travel on a berm. Set it too hard and the bike will be harsh over trail chatter and fail to smooth out undulating ground.........on a berm it will lack traction due to bounce off any imperfection on your chosen line. Set it about half way as a start and adjust from there using the same piece of track as a test.

 

[Philly G]

Just to add to @Mikerb 's explanation, too little LSC will also cause the fork to dive under braking

 

[Like a Boss]

Just to add to @Mikerb 's explanation, too little LSC will also cause the fork to dive under braking

OK cool. I have to admit, all this time I thought it was HSC which controlled lockout, pedal mode, etc type settings. It is confusing that the outer dial on the Select+ is LSC, and on the Ultimate model that same dial is HSC, and the LSC is moved to the small inner dial.

I will say the Zeb is so good that when I was riding it the other day with LSC full open I did not experience excessive fork dive....It does sink into travel but in a controlled way. I'll dial in some more LSC and firm it up. The fork HSC settings are pretty good from the factory.

Thanks. The original poster, Dixie600mhz, should be able to find this fork agreeable.

 

[dixie600mhz]

I'm working my way back down into 57 ish psi to get it smooth. It does feel like a small change in pressure has a big effect. I can't imaging running this thing at the recommended 80psi.

Looking at the ultimate RC2 damper as an upgrade option...it looks like you get 19 clicks of rebound and 19 clicks of low speed compression, and 4 clicks adjustment of high speed compression. If I can't get the high speed compression soft enough I might switch fork or swap out the damper.

For 200lbs rider weight it definitely seems like you need less than 60psi to avoid hand issues, or at least I do on this bike.

 

[Mikerb]

I have used the Revelation, Lyric Ultimate and Fox 38 and on all of them I use less than the recommended air pressure. I sometimes suspect the air pressure recommended by the manufacturers is for a fork with no tokens despite the fact that more often than not any fork 150mm plus has 2 tokens fitted as standard. It is also the case that most brands specify a high factory compression tune for Ebike forks whereas the same fork straight from the manufacturer is usually a medium tune. A fork designed for Enduro/downhill would usually be set by the pros at a stiffness few of us amateur riders could tolerate..........so are the manufacturers guided by that?

All good reasons to ignore the manufacturer's recommended air pressure in my book and go with what SAG tells you.

 

[Like a Boss]

I too am looking at the RC2 damper, simply because it is the best damper on offer from Rockshox. But the RC damper is quite good already. They want $330 usd for the RC2 damper upgrade........

I had a hard time learning to ride a Rockshox fork because my first fork was a 2015 Pike.....I had to convert it to Luftkappe air spring because the factory spring had very little support. It would dive so bad it wanted to send me over the bars so I had to close the compression on a slow switchback, and open it for a fast downhill. The new forks are much better.

It is trippy how the factory recommends pressures that a majority of riders would find harsh. And it can be hard to remove yourself from the factory settings. Once you do, however, detach yourself from the recommended settings and go to SAG..... there is some freedom.

 

[steve_sordy]

.........
All good reasons to ignore the manufacturer's recommended air pressure in my book and go with what SAG tells you.

I 100% agree with that.
I look at the reccos and just think "whaaatt". I always go off the %sag first and then adjust according to how it rides.

 

[Gutch]

Nope......if there is only one compression dial it is LSC............you can on some shocks/forks dial it up or switch it to near lockout . The lockout is designed to help with pedalling and climbing. That setting restricts oil flow through the damper....it is not a mechanical lock.
You set LSC to enable the bike to smoothly tackle undulating ground, trail chatter, as well as provide support in constant compression scenarios like a berm. Set it too light and the bike will rock front to back on undulating ground and sink into mid travel on a berm. Set it too hard and the bike will be harsh over trail chatter and fail to smooth out undulating ground.........on a berm it will lack traction due to bounce off any imperfection on your chosen line. Set it about half way as a start and adjust from there using the same piece of track as a test.

On point. Well said

 

[Slapbassmunky]

I have no idea what you guys are riding where you can get away with such low pressures, on my last day out I was regularly coming very close to bottoming out. 9.8XT Zeb select+ 92kg's RTR 80psi and two tokens. LSC in the middle and rebound 5 clicks from closed. I can't imagine running 60psi or less, there would be no support at all, you'd basically be riding the tokens in the harshest part of the travel. At 60psi mine rebound so slowly at 5 clicks out they'd get close to packing down on repeated big fast hits ?

 

[dixie600mhz]

If I had 80psi in mine it would feel like a shock filled with rocks instead of rockshox. I've found bliss finally. 57psi with slow speed compression 11 clicks out from closed and rebound 2 clicks out from closed. I can sail over medium roots/rocks and barely feel it through the fork. I'm finally really happy. 30 miles of soft planted front feels great. No more hand or wrist issues here. I'm finally loving this fork.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

If I had 80psi in mine it would feel like a shock filled with rocks instead of rockshox. I've found bliss finally. 57psi with slow speed compression 11 clicks out from closed and rebound 2 clicks out from closed. I can sail over medium roots/rocks and barely feel it through the fork. I'm finally really happy. 30 miles of soft planted front feels great. No more hand or wrist issues here. I'm finally loving this fork.

How many tokens are you using?

 

[dixie600mhz]

No tokens installed. It came with 2 stock and I took them out while tweaking. That also made a big difference on getting close to using full travel.

 

[Slapbassmunky]

No tokens installed. It came with 2 stock and I took them out while tweaking. That also made a big difference on getting close to using full travel.

I genuinely can't wrap my head around how you're using no tokens with pressures that low and aren't having bottoming issues. I'd go OTB or destroy my wrists on the first decent jump or DH trail ?

Zeb's can't differ THAT much between batches?! Have you stripped down the air spring side to make sure everything's ok? It almost sounds like the negative spring isn't equalising.