YT Decoy vs YT Decoy 29

[seamarsh]

All I know is this:

Longer chainstay is better said nobody ever.

Rear 29 makes turning harder and is less agile.

Less travel in the suspension is a benefit to who?

Cheaper suspension and lower end dampers.

Higher BB for people worried about pedal strikes but also not good for handling.

Steeper head angle offers some agility back at the cost of downhill stability.

The 29 was engineered to appeal to one type of buyer and that was people considering a Levo. It's now a direct competitor of the probably highest volume ebike.

In bike recommendations people say levo and they dont even know why they say it. It's like they are pre programmed. In the enduro class shootout someone complained there was no Levo. They dont even know what the Levo is they just think it should win because their mate said so. The fact it didnt win it's own class let alone get considered in the enduro class speaks volumes about the type of riders who buy what.

The 29 is designed to appeal to that rider. It's less hardcore. It's less expensive and it takes less skill and strength to ride. It is less capable downhill and designed to take less big hits. It runs narrow tires and gives up structural strength in the rear wheel for lower rolling resistance. This is the very nature of a trail/XC style bike. In the same way a motor makes the downhill features easier to live with the motor does the opposite to a trail bike because it adds weight.

As the ebike market grows and becomes more affordable the rider demographic will start to change. Younger riders with higher skill and strength with less fear will be looking for more capable enduro and downhill style bikes.

The right rider can do a lot on both type of bikes but I'd not want to be hitting 6 foot drop 12 foot distance gaps on a 29er with 150mm travel and a rhythm fork.

wow your brain has truly been taken over by The marketing dept.

Lots of reasons more travel is not always better. Same goes for chainstay lengths! On an ebike especially.

Also and most importantly it’s the rider not the bike, go watch skills with Phil video of him launching crab Apple hits on a 140mm trail bike.

Your reference to less skilled riders preferring this bike is just a lame and lazy take. I’ve been riding 20+ years and choose this bike over the mullet, I’m hardly a new rider just like a mullet is hardly a new concept! Was tried many times years ago and I thought it sucked then too... but obviously it doesn’t it’s just my opinion

 

[Zero]

All I know is this:

Longer chainstay is better said nobody ever.

Rear 29 makes turning harder and is less agile.

Less travel in the suspension is a benefit to who?

Cheaper suspension and lower end dampers.

Higher BB for people worried about pedal strikes but also not good for handling.

Steeper head angle offers some agility back at the cost of downhill stability.

The 29 was engineered to appeal to one type of buyer and that was people considering a Levo. It's now a direct competitor of the probably highest volume ebike.

In bike recommendations people say levo and they dont even know why they say it. It's like they are pre programmed. In the enduro class shootout someone complained there was no Levo. They dont even know what the Levo is they just think it should win because their mate said so. The fact it didnt win it's own class let alone get considered in the enduro class speaks volumes about the type of riders who buy what.

The 29 is designed to appeal to that rider. It's less hardcore. It's less expensive and it takes less skill and strength to ride. It is less capable downhill and designed to take less big hits. It runs narrow tires and gives up structural strength in the rear wheel for lower rolling resistance. This is the very nature of a trail/XC style bike. In the same way a motor makes the downhill features easier to live with the motor does the opposite to a trail bike because it adds weight.

As the ebike market grows and becomes more affordable the rider demographic will start to change. Younger riders with higher skill and strength with less fear will be looking for more capable enduro and downhill style bikes.

The right rider can do a lot on both type of bikes but I'd not want to be hitting 6 foot drop 12 foot distance gaps on a 29er with 150mm travel and a rhythm fork.

wow your brain has truly been taken over by The marketing dept.

Lots of reasons more travel is not always better. Same goes for chainstay lengths! On an ebike especially.

Also and most importantly it’s the rider not the bike, go watch skills with Phil video of him launching crab Apple hits on a 140mm trail bike.

Your reference to less skilled riders preferring this bike is just a lame and lazy take. I’ve been riding 20+ years and choose this bike over the mullet, I’m hardly a new rider just like a mullet is hardly a new concept! Was tried many times years ago and I thought it sucked then too... but obviously it doesn’t it’s just my opinion

Sucks how and why?

You have not even given a reason to disagree other than just disagree because you bought the 29er...

 

[seamarsh]

Sucks how and why?

You have not even given a reason to disagree other than just disagree because you bought the 29er...

just a personal opinion... that’s why I said it doesn’t suck it’s just my opinion. I don’t like running different wheel sizes, for one practical reason I like to swap tires alot and don’t want to have to buy different sizes.. also better tire selection in 29er vs 27.5 2.8 and I just feel like it’s more balanced with same sized wheels.
Mullet is also a more DH oriented set up and I’m riding lots of varied terrain and primitive single track. Also longer flat sections to get to trails.

 

[YokoOno]

just a personal opinion... that’s why I said it doesn’t suck it’s just my opinion. I don’t like running different wheel sizes, for one practical reason I like to swap tires alot and don’t want to have to buy different sizes.. also better tire selection in 29er vs 27.5 2.8 and I just feel like it’s more balanced with same sized wheels.
Mullet is also a more DH oriented set up and I’m riding lots of varied terrain and primitive single track. Also longer flat sections to get to trails.

This is a very reasonable reply

 

[rb.]

After owning the 29 for 2 months I can confidently say that I regret getting this model over the mullet version. I ride steep/gnarly terrain, and wish I had the longer travel bike with more dh oriented geo. Still not a fan of the wider plus tire in the rear, but in all other aspects that looks like a better option in hindsight.

Now the real decision... do I try to sell my decoy 29
and replace it with a mullet? Do I wait until the new shimano motor is being spec’d on bikes? Do I look at other bikes altogether? I have 2 friends with the Tazer’s and they both love them.

 

[Santa]

After owning the 29 for 2 months I can confidently say that I regret getting this model over the mullet version. I ride steep/gnarly terrain, and wish I had the longer travel bike with more dh oriented geo. Still not a fan of the wider plus tire in the rear, but in all other aspects that looks like a better option in hindsight.

Now the real decision... do I try to sell my decoy 29
and replace it with a mullet? Do I wait until the new shimano motor is being spec’d on bikes? Do I look at other bikes altogether? I have 2 friends with the Tazer’s and they both love them.

I assume you already tried riding in Low BB setting?

 

[YokoOno]

After owning the 29 for 2 months I can confidently say that I regret getting this model over the mullet version. I ride steep/gnarly terrain, and wish I had the longer travel bike with more dh oriented geo. Still not a fan of the wider plus tire in the rear, but in all other aspects that looks like a better option in hindsight.

Now the real decision... do I try to sell my decoy 29
and replace it with a mullet? Do I wait until the new shimano motor is being spec’d on bikes? Do I look at other bikes altogether? I have 2 friends with the Tazer’s and they both love them.

Not this makes your decision any easier, but I destroyed the stock i35 rim and have been using an i30 rim from a different bike with 2.6 tire. Overall, I prefer the the 2.6 over the stock 2.8 setup. It has just as much grip but I can more nimbly roll the tire from edge to edge on the 2.6 as opposed to the 2.8

And, yes, the mullet bike is killer.

 

[Santa]

And, yes, the mullet bike is killer.

And that’s the problem for the 29er!

 

[seamarsh]

After owning the 29 for 2 months I can confidently say that I regret getting this model over the mullet version. I ride steep/gnarly terrain, and wish I had the longer travel bike with more dh oriented geo. Still not a fan of the wider plus tire in the rear, but in all other aspects that looks like a better option in hindsight.

Now the real decision... do I try to sell my decoy 29
and replace it with a mullet? Do I wait until the new shimano motor is being spec’d on bikes? Do I look at other bikes altogether? I have 2 friends with the Tazer’s and they both love them.

bump your fork up to 160/170 i’m running 160 with coil conversion and a bomber cr coil rear. bike is the bomb imo. i can see if you were only riding super gnar the mullet might be better.. how
much better? idk.

 

[TransAmMan]

I would say ride it and pull the plug on a mullet in Jan 2021 .. for the following reasons ...

Expect/Predict:

1) New EP8 motor (the 8000 is fine .. but after riding some newer motors, the deficiencies are quite noted .. noise .. delay in power .. torque .. etc)

2. New 38 mm forks (fox or rockshox)

3. Maybe New wheelset (lets hope ?)

4. Higher capacity battery

Its only another 5 months till launch

In the interim .. you can wait for the review on the new EP8 motor. I would anticipate one early Sept (as Commencal is launching their new e-bikes on Aug 31st with the updated Shimano motor). If the new motor is not "up to the task" .. than I guess you can always then pull the trigger on a mullet (and upgrade with some serious send it additions .. coil shock, etc. )

I have Commencal as my #2 option for 2021 ..*** BUT it has to be a mullet to suit my style of riding. If a mullet is on the way from Commencal .. it will be a very hard choice.

I would wait .. but I know how hard it is

 

[seamarsh]

I would say ride it and pull the plug on a mullet in Jan 2021 .. for the following reasons ...

Expect/Predict:

1) New EP8 motor (the 8000 is fine .. but after riding some newer motors, the deficiencies are quite noted .. noise .. delay in power .. torque .. etc)

2. New 38 mm forks (fox or rockshox)

3. Maybe New wheelset (lets hope ?)

4. Higher capacity battery

Its only another 5 months till launch

In the interim .. you can wait for the review on the new EP8 motor. I would anticipate one early Sept (as Commencal is launching their new e-bikes on Aug 31st with the updated Shimano motor). If the new motor is not "up to the task" .. than I guess you can always then pull the trigger on a mullet (and upgrade with some serious send it additions .. coil shock, etc. )

I would wait .. but I know how hard it is

solid advice!!

 

[rb.]

bump your fork up to 160/170 i’m running 160 with coil conversion and a bomber cr coil rear. bike is the bomb imo. i can see if you were only riding super gnar the mullet might be better.. how
much better? idk.

I have a 170 mm lyrik on it right now. When I first made the switch the front end felt too high, but I put a 50mm stem on it and dropped the bars a bit to get more weight on the front. Big improvement. I also have a 2021 air spring sitting in my room that I can install for another slight improvement.

 

[rb.]

I assume you already tried riding in Low BB setting?

Yep. It’s in the low right now.

 

[YokoOno]

Its only another 5 months till launch

In the interim .. you can wait for the review on the new EP8 motor. I would anticipate one early Sept (as Commencal is launching their new e-bikes on Aug 31st with the updated Shimano motor). If the new motor is not "up to the task" .. than I guess you can always then pull the trigger on a mullet (and upgrade with some serious send it additions .. coil shock, etc. )

I have Commencal as my #2 option for 2021 ..*** BUT it has to be a mullet to suit my style of riding. If a mullet is on the way from Commencal .. it will be a very hard choice.

I would wait .. but I know how hard it is

But, but, but......

if you haven't noticed, it's nearly impossible to buy a bike right now. The shipments from Asia are either not departing, they aren't allowed in to the ports or they sit in holding for an inordinate amount of time.

This may all be alleviated in 5 months. Then again, it may not.

 

[leftside]

After owning the 29 for 2 months I can confidently say that I regret getting this model over the mullet version. I ride steep/gnarly terrain, and wish I had the longer travel bike with more dh oriented geo. Still not a fan of the wider plus tire in the rear, but in all other aspects that looks like a better option in hindsight.

Now the real decision... do I try to sell my decoy 29
and replace it with a mullet? Do I wait until the new shimano motor is being spec’d on bikes? Do I look at other bikes altogether? I have 2 friends with the Tazer’s and they both love them.

I too ride steep/gnarly terrain. Running an e-wild 2.6 on my Decoy Mullet. Body position wise feels the same in high setting as the Minion 2.8 DHR in low setting. I'll also try the e-wild 2.8 when it arrives - as the e-wild 2.6 is MUCH smaller than the Minion 2.8 DHR.

 

[seamarsh]

I have a 170 mm lyrik on it right now. When I first made the switch the front end felt too high, but I put a 50mm stem on it and dropped the bars a bit to get more weight on the front. Big improvement. I also have a 2021 air spring sitting in my room that I can install for another slight improvement.

gotcha, I tried 170mm but felt too slacked out as well.. 160 seems perfect but I ride all kinds of trails so it’s been working well for me.

what about buying a mullet rear triangle from yt? Think you just need rear triangle, shock and a wheel and you have a mullet. maybe They would give you crash replacement price?

 

[YokoOno]

I too ride steep/gnarly terrain. Running an e-wild 2.6 on my Decoy Mullet. Body position wise feels the same in high setting as the Minion 2.8 DHR in low setting. I'll also try the e-wild 2.8 when it arrives - as the e-wild 2.6 is MUCH smaller than the Minion 2.8 DHR.

I run a front 2.5 WT Assegai and a 2.6 e-wild on my Decoy. Fork at 170. Low setting. Always low setting.....

The e-wild 2.6 is smaller than the 2.8 DHR, but is bigger than the 2.6 DHR

 

[rb.]

gotcha, I tried 170mm but felt too slacked out as well.. 160 seems perfect but I ride all kinds of trails so it’s been working well for me.

what about buying a mullet rear triangle from yt? Think you just need rear triangle, shock and a wheel and you have a mullet. maybe They would give you crash replacement price?

I don’t think buying a new rear end, wheel, and shock is a cost effective option.

At this point, I’m either going to stick with what I’ve got for a while and not invest much more money into it since I don’t see it as a long term option. Or sell now while it’s still “newish” and the market in the States is REALLY strong for ebikes.

 

[seamarsh]

I don’t think buying a new rear end, wheel, and shock is a cost effective option.

At this point, I’m either going to stick with what I’ve got for a while and not invest much more money into it since I don’t see it as a long term option. Or sell now while it’s still “newish” and the market in the States is REALLY strong for ebikes.

yeah i have no clue what rear triangle costs.. seems like if you could do it for a grand would be worth it? maybe that’s optimistic. rear wheel you can find cheap, rear shock pink bike market relatively cheap...

interesting you say that ebike market is strong.. i’m in bay area as well.. i think you are bay area? i was thinking that there would be almost no resale on decoy... you think you could sell your decoy quickly?

 

[rb.]

yeah i have no clue what rear triangle costs.. seems like if you could do it for a grand would be worth it? maybe that’s optimistic. rear wheel you can find cheap, rear shock pink bike market relatively cheap...

interesting you say that ebike market is strong.. i’m in bay area as well.. i think you are bay area? i was thinking that there would be almost no resale on decoy... you think you could sell your decoy quickly?

I think I could get around $4000 for my bike after 2 months of use and even after I put most the stock/cheap parts back on.

I’ve sold 3 bikes in the last few months and they’ve all sold way over what I thought they should have.

 

[leftside]

Decoys are especially hot right now! Crazy used market. But, if you sell.... good luck finding a new one. I'd put my order in for a new one now, then sell the old one when the new one arrived.

I feared the worst for my local bike stores a few months ago (apart from buying YT bikes, I do like to support them as much as possible). I know some of the owners personally and sometimes go riding with them (2 have ebikes) and they can't believe how busy they are. They can't bring in new bikes quickly enough to sell. Want to get work done on a bike? 2-4 week wait before they will accept your bike?

 

[seamarsh]

I think I could get around $4000 for my bike after 2 months of use and even after I put most the stock/cheap parts back on.

I’ve sold 3 bikes in the last few months and they’ve all sold way over what I thought they should have.

yeah i guess that makes sense.. i know normal bikes are selling like crazy.. even dirt bikes.. i thought it would be a great time to get a deal on a dirt bike... nope, dealers can barley keep them stocked.

 

[Daverichardson]

All I know is this:

Longer chainstay is better said nobody ever.

Rear 29 makes turning harder and is less agile.

Less travel in the suspension is a benefit to who?

Cheaper suspension and lower end dampers.

Higher BB for people worried about pedal strikes but also not good for handling.

Steeper head angle offers some agility back at the cost of downhill stability.

The 29 was engineered to appeal to one type of buyer and that was people considering a Levo. It's now a direct competitor of the probably highest volume ebike.

In bike recommendations people say levo and they dont even know why they say it. It's like they are pre programmed. In the enduro class shootout someone complained there was no Levo. They dont even know what the Levo is they just think it should win because their mate said so. The fact it didnt win it's own class let alone get considered in the enduro class speaks volumes about the type of riders who buy what.

The 29 is designed to appeal to that rider. It's less hardcore. It's less expensive and it takes less skill and strength to ride. It is less capable downhill and designed to take less big hits. It runs narrow tires and gives up structural strength in the rear wheel for lower rolling resistance. This is the very nature of a trail/XC style bike. In the same way a motor makes the downhill features easier to live with the motor does the opposite to a trail bike because it adds weight.

As the ebike market grows and becomes more affordable the rider demographic will start to change. Younger riders with higher skill and strength with less fear will be looking for more capable enduro and downhill style bikes.

The right rider can do a lot on both type of bikes but I'd not want to be hitting 6 foot drop 12 foot distance gaps on a 29er with 150mm travel and a rhythm fork.

It's really funny to read people arguing what is better when everything is relative to the rider and terrain. Oh and it's funny because they sound like little children.

 

[CamBo]

I’ve been riding a decoy 29 for about 6 months. I think it’s a solid value for the $$, and very capable. It’s not a downhill bike. But neither is the mullet version. 165 rear travel on the mullet is more plush than the 145 on the 29er, but I would like more travel than either option for serious terrain.

For local riding this has been a blast!

 

[Singletrackmind]

Neither bike is better than the other, just different strokes for different folks, same as one brands bike isn't better than the other if its the wrong bike for you.. The best bike is the best bike for the person who owns it, not what it says on paper. They are both very capable. Look at what Josh Bryceland runs on his EMTB, 29 both ends, not what you would expect. You dont need big travel to hit big features, I am lucky enough to have ridden with a few top riders locally and they are pretty much all on 150/160mm bikes for day to day riding on the local jumps etc, and when you check out their bikes they are not the all singing all dancing factory spec that you might expect.

I am not a fan of 29'rs because I find the less playful, same with mullet bikes, but there a reason most of the EWS riders and DH circuit run 29, because they are faster when it counts. If you have ever tried one of the big travel new gen 29'rs they are no picnic to ride fast, and need quite a lot of adjustment to get used to, they are not for everyone because the margin for error is reduced due to the speed they pick up, but the potential pay off makes it worth while, because they go further and faster when ridden well, but can twist you up if not.

If you look at YT's line up their 29 inch long travel "hardcore bikes" are their big sellers, their big hitting line up is built around 29 like most brands these days, with the Decoy really being the anomaly. Whether its buying in to hype or not, everyone I know has pretty much switched to 29 on their long travel bikes, and the market is only going one way.

Most of their free ride pros ride 27.5 on their YT's, with a fair few even having custom rear ends that allow for a 26 inch wheel to be fitted, so ride 27.5 up front and 26 out back.

For me the ultimate EMTB UK free ride bike would be something along the lines of the Stumpjumper Evo geometry with the Levo SL motor, 160mm up front and a bit less out back, sub 20kg, 27.5 wheels. Full on DH style travel is only a PITA unless you are riding proper dh stuff and massive kickers, and the weight of current emtbs's is the real problem if you like throwing shapes. If I lived in Morzine or Utah I might have different views! You need to have serious core and upper body strength it you want to throw around the current crop of emtb's.

Anyway its great that YT offer the different models, as it gives people who like the yt platform choice, and I would hope to see further options from them.

Very well put. Not sure why some feel compelled to bash others. The "best" bike for me may not be the "best" bike for others. I'm fortunate enough to have YT Decoy Elite and a Specialized Levo S-Works. They are 2 totally different bikes. I got the Levo while I was waiting for my Decoy to ship. Rode it for about 2 months then rode the Decoy exclusively for 6 weeks. They each have aspects they excel at and can't say one is "better" then the other. I like the extended range of the Levo and take it when I plan long days in the saddle and want to do lots of climbing. Take the Decoy when I'm riding knar or dh. Ridden both bikes on the same trails and have learned to appreciate how each bike was designed.

 

[djuro]

Like you say it all depends on what riding you yo want to do, and getting the bike that enables you to do that, you can go to far in either direction, and the great thing about a lot of todays long travel Enduro bikes is they have you covered for so much different riding. A long travel emtb is going to open up far more than it will limit.

IMO these days you only really need Dual Crown forks if you are regularly hitting massive 30ft jumps or ride a lot of proper downhill, forks like the new 38, and of course the older 36 and Lyric are so capable that you can ride pretty much anything on one bike. Great thing about the decoy is you could fit dual crowns if you want.

The actual limiting factor on single crowns IMO at the moment, is if you go up to 220/223mm rotes at the front then you can really see the fork flex way more under braking, if I am doing hard riding I quite often find I need to align my callipers at the end of the ride as the flex of the forks can knock em out, and the new Fox 38/RS Zeb is something I want to try as they have designed them with bigger rotors in mind, the new axle alignment system on the foxes in particular.

I grew up riding DH in the day when you pretty much blew out a component on every ride, and I still find what modern single crown forks can handle pretty amazing, as I had so many fail so quickly in the past. Even my EMTB feels light compared to my old DH bike from the millennium, that's still gathering dust in my parents shed, need to do a resto mod on it really!

View attachment 30602

where did u get the info that decoy is ready for dual crown forks? I have seen pics of people doing it, but yt service told me the decoy frame is not allowed to run with DC. capra can though.

 

[CamBo]

I’m riding my Decoy 29 in the low position with a 180mm fox 38 up front.
It’s straight up amazing.

If you need more travel you can get to 190 on the 38 without having to go double crown.
If it’s too slack flip the chip to high.

The bike still turns like a long, slack bike going uphill. If you are into riding tight switch backs all day this is not the ideal setup. But I ride them daily to get me back to the top of the hill. And I have less wheel lift than when I pedal my Nomad.

 

[djuro]

170-180 would be enough, i am just too heavy (systemweight 125kg inclusive bike) and ride too hard. bikepark jumplines ect.

currently on a custom built/tuned 180mm fox36 ebike 2019 fork with secus, 34 internals and hence thicker walls and thicker shaft and bridge. the weight is comparable to the fox38. so I just really want at dc on my decoy
eagerly waiting for the 190mm fox40 2021 airshaft here in germany. then I give it a go.

this is all on a mullet decoy in high setting, with 5ft11 (180cm height, 84cm crotch), L frame, 587mm axle to crown, 45mm 0 degree rise stem, 8degree backsweep 35mm rise bar, 21mm headset stack incl spacers. feels spot on... could use maybe 5mm more frame reach on really steep stuff, but 29er rear nor XL frame would allow my shortish legs get my ass back and low enough. so ...

 

[Smithy]

I got the 29er. I love it. My friend has the mullet. I’m definitely better at climbing plus I’m faster. I’m unfit he’s fit. He’s used to do downhill.
Mods.... in winder I’ve taped up the battery where it meets the frame. So no mud gets in. Still does..
in changed it to 160mm travel fork by buying the 2021 rockshox air spring. I got the 160 version. I watched YouTube and did it myself. And it’s amazingggggg. I then flipped the chip on the rear to high.
now it rides great. You can definitely send this bike like any other “ enduro bike”. All depends on the rider.

 

[CamBo]

I recently replaced the 230x60 dpx2 with a 230x65 coil. This should get me back close to the 165mm rear travel on the mullet bike. I put the flip chip in high and run a Fox 38 180mm up front. I’ve put about 150 miles on this setup and it’s straight up amazing. The difference is night and day on bigger hits.
I see no downsides.