YT Decoy vs YT Decoy 29

[Chuch]

Have you ridden both? If so, give us your best thoughts!

I had a chance to swing a leg over each of these the last time I was in CA, but just in the parking lot. On top of it, the Decoy 29 was a large and the Decoy was a medium...I am in between sizes at 5-9. I am done evaluating builds (easy part), but man is the decision between these two bikes tough.

Does the OG Decoy pedal well enough? I mean after all the thing has pedal assist up hill so who really cares? 'm on a 150mm HT2 for my main sled, and even though I feel like maybe the 29 makes more sense for what I ride, but why not go for the extra cush? I'd like to have it potentially for bigger days, but I also dont want a slug for local stuff. They basically weigh the same. Does the geo really stand to make that much difference?

If you went 29 why? I like the idea of "agile" but I'm struggling with not just going big travel. Why not?

Let's dicsuss here. It seems like there are very few reviews on the 29 outside of the initial release and a few blurbs here and there. Hopefully as more people get them they can chime in.

 

[Fx1]

I don't see the point of the 29. Especially whilst you can buy the 2019 decoy.

It cant do anything better than the mullet and loses suspension travel and the smaller rear wheel.

 

[Chuch]

I don't see the point of the 29. Especially whilst you can buy the 2019 decoy.

It cant do anything better than the mullet and loses suspension travel and the smaller rear wheel.

I'll be honest, that's really where my head is at as well man. It would be one thing if the "trail" version was 5lbs lighter or something also. I am hoping some guys who chose it convince me otherwise.

 

[TransAmMan]

Ultimately it comes down to your riding style.

I demo'd 2 ebikes at the same time for an entire day …. they were Commencal e-bikes and one was a 29'er and the other was a 27.5. In essence I was trying to decide what wheel size to go for an e-bike (never having ridden one)

Prior to this I spent a full year riding a top spec Transition Sentinel (a full blown 29'er) I was convinced that I would never go back to 27.5. … so I was already a 29 convert (great bike that Sentinel was).

After switching between bikes at least 20 times (29 to 27.5 and back) .. riding the same trails back to back .. I was still convinced that the 29 was the way to go. BUT .. and this is a HUGE BUT (minus the extra "T" at the end ) ...

I REALLY missed the playful agility of the 27.5.

I remember thinking after riding .. "if only it was a MULLET .. best of both worlds. Also it was nice to be able to get low into the bike without buzzing my butt on the rear tire (after years on DH riding .. I don't like being stationed "on a bike" … I want to feel like I am "in the bike". Hence bought the Decoy the next day.

No regrets in the mullet and its everything as advertised IF that is your riding style.

Here is my evaluation criteria:

1. If you like "sending it" and NOT "climbing it" - mullet
2. If you enjoy tires OFF the ground more than ON the ground - mullet
3. If you would rather go to jail before donning spandex riding gear - mullet (ok a bit of a joke .. but I would NEVER be caught wearing spandex in public )

If you chose any of the latter answers above, then your probably a full 29'er guy (especially #3)

Either way your getting an amazing bike .. but just consider what you do with the bike the best fit for your riding style. The lesser travel of the 29'er is to compensate for the higher centre of gravity that comes with a 29 rear wheel (to give similar ride styles) .. so its not really a compromise, but rather intentionally done. So it will be a ripper too …

Win-win with either decision .. one may just be better suited for your riding style

 

[Chuch]

1) Sending it, always the priority. I only ride 150 now on my HT because I know I have to climb to get it. Hate climbing. (See Rob Warner Video LOL)
2) sure why not
3) Never have, never will

Actually man, your feedback about how you landed there was a great help. Hoping others continue to chime in with general feedback as well down the road.

 

[Gary]

3. If you would rather go to jail before donning spandex riding gear - mullet (ok a bit of a joke .. but I would NEVER be caught wearing spandex in public )

3) Never have, never will

1) Sending it, always the priority. I only ride 150 now on my HT because I know I have to climb to get it. Hate climbing. (See Rob Warner Video LOL)

I've spoken to Warner while we were both wearing lycra. One of us looked good in it. One of us was being paid to wear it.
a long time ago

 

[Santa]

No worries everyone, the decoy 29 still has too much travel to make it Lycra-legal.

 

[Chuch]

Anyone bought the 29 and mulleted it out?

 

[Barty_NorthVan]

Hey Chuch,

One main factor to consider is your leg length. I love 29'er but I have short legs and i kept getting the rear tire 29'er buzz job. I''ve been waiting for a mullet bike with the correct geom and the Decoy is perfect.
The 29 front rolls over everything and the 27.5 rear doesn't buzz me on the steeps. Great for where I live.

Cheers
Barty

 

[photocycycler]

I have a Jeffsy 29 now and thinking I will go Decoy 29 for the same reason I didn't go Capra. Travel, the less travel and steeper geo the more playful the bike can be

 

[leftside]

Hey Chuch,

One main factor to consider is your leg length. I love 29'er but I have short legs and i kept getting the rear tire 29'er buzz job. I''ve been waiting for a mullet bike with the correct geom and the Decoy is perfect.
The 29 front rolls over everything and the 27.5 rear doesn't buzz me on the steeps. Great for where I live.

Cheers
Barty

Same for where this short leg person lives as well

 

[YokoOno]

I'm in the OG Camp and don't see the point of the 29.
the OG mullet has more travel and more aggressive geometry - it's just a more capable bike if you're going to ride it hard.

 

[Zero]

why would you want to gimp the bike with a longer chain stay, wagon wheel on the back and less travel...

 

[rb.]

why would you want to gimp the bike with a longer chain stay, wagon wheel on the back and less travel...

Because it’s faster, more balanced, and more fun than a mullet bike.

Not everyone likes the same thing as you. I know 4 people with Decoys, and 3 of them got the 29er version.

 

[Zero]

Because it’s faster, more balanced, and more fun than a mullet bike.

Not everyone likes the same thing as you. I know 4 people with Decoys, and 3 of them got the 29er version.

If any of those things were true they would have designed it that way from the start.

 

[rb.]

If any of those things were true they would have designed it that way from the start.

It’s true that 3 out of the 4 people I know bought the 29ers. Sales talk.

 

[Zero]

If any of those things were true they would have designed it that way from the start.

It’s true that 3 out of the 4 people I know bought the 29ers. Sales talk.

Popular doesnt equal better. That would make a ford fiesta better than a Porsche gt3.

The ebike demographic also is favoured towards trail and older riders. So I think many will opt for the 29 thinking it's better for their type of riding. That and the new base is only in 29. The pro race is only in mullet. If my memory is correct.

I'm struggling to think how the 29 would have an advantage over the mullet model. That is kind of the whole reason the mullet exists.

I'm guessing less pedal strikes and possibly more range from the battery....

 

[rb.]

Popular doesnt equal better. That would make a ford fiesta better than a Porsche gt3.

The ebike demographic also is favoured towards trail and older riders. So I think many will opt for the 29 thinking it's better for their type of riding. That and the new base is only in 29. The pro race is only in mullet. If my memory is correct.

I'm struggling to think how the 29 would have an advantage over the mullet model. That is kind of the whole reason the mullet exists.

I'm guessing less pedal strikes and possibly more range from the battery....

Ok, lets race then. See whose bike goes faster. Because it sounds like your mullet is leaps and bounds better than the 29, so you should have nothing to worry about.

 

[Armeniandave]

So I have the Pro Race Decoy from last year. I guess were calling
it the mullet bike in this conversation. Anyway the front is a 29" but
the back even though it's a 27.5"+ is the same diameter as the 29".
So essentially it is a 27.5" rim but overall the same as a 29" wheel.
My Decoy climbs great especially since the motor cancels out
the slackness and allows you to climb like a billy goat! Just go
with which ever one you feel better on as I'm sure there both
awesome!

 

[Zero]

Popular doesnt equal better. That would make a ford fiesta better than a Porsche gt3.

The ebike demographic also is favoured towards trail and older riders. So I think many will opt for the 29 thinking it's better for their type of riding. That and the new base is only in 29. The pro race is only in mullet. If my memory is correct.

I'm struggling to think how the 29 would have an advantage over the mullet model. That is kind of the whole reason the mullet exists.

I'm guessing less pedal strikes and possibly more range from the battery....

Ok, lets race then. See whose bike goes faster. Because it sounds like your mullet is leaps and bounds better than the 29, so you should have nothing to worry about.

All I know is this:

Longer chainstay is better said nobody ever.

Rear 29 makes turning harder and is less agile.

Less travel in the suspension is a benefit to who?

Cheaper suspension and lower end dampers.

Higher BB for people worried about pedal strikes but also not good for handling.

Steeper head angle offers some agility back at the cost of downhill stability.

The 29 was engineered to appeal to one type of buyer and that was people considering a Levo. It's now a direct competitor of the probably highest volume ebike.

In bike recommendations people say levo and they dont even know why they say it. It's like they are pre programmed. In the enduro class shootout someone complained there was no Levo. They dont even know what the Levo is they just think it should win because their mate said so. The fact it didnt win it's own class let alone get considered in the enduro class speaks volumes about the type of riders who buy what.

The 29 is designed to appeal to that rider. It's less hardcore. It's less expensive and it takes less skill and strength to ride. It is less capable downhill and designed to take less big hits. It runs narrow tires and gives up structural strength in the rear wheel for lower rolling resistance. This is the very nature of a trail/XC style bike. In the same way a motor makes the downhill features easier to live with the motor does the opposite to a trail bike because it adds weight.

As the ebike market grows and becomes more affordable the rider demographic will start to change. Younger riders with higher skill and strength with less fear will be looking for more capable enduro and downhill style bikes.

The right rider can do a lot on both type of bikes but I'd not want to be hitting 6 foot drop 12 foot distance gaps on a 29er with 150mm travel and a rhythm fork.

 

[R120]

Neither bike is better than the other, just different strokes for different folks, same as one brands bike isn't better than the other if its the wrong bike for you.. The best bike is the best bike for the person who owns it, not what it says on paper. They are both very capable. Look at what Josh Bryceland runs on his EMTB, 29 both ends, not what you would expect. You dont need big travel to hit big features, I am lucky enough to have ridden with a few top riders locally and they are pretty much all on 150/160mm bikes for day to day riding on the local jumps etc, and when you check out their bikes they are not the all singing all dancing factory spec that you might expect.

I am not a fan of 29'rs because I find the less playful, same with mullet bikes, but there a reason most of the EWS riders and DH circuit run 29, because they are faster when it counts. If you have ever tried one of the big travel new gen 29'rs they are no picnic to ride fast, and need quite a lot of adjustment to get used to, they are not for everyone because the margin for error is reduced due to the speed they pick up, but the potential pay off makes it worth while, because they go further and faster when ridden well, but can twist you up if not.

If you look at YT's line up their 29 inch long travel "hardcore bikes" are their big sellers, their big hitting line up is built around 29 like most brands these days, with the Decoy really being the anomaly. Whether its buying in to hype or not, everyone I know has pretty much switched to 29 on their long travel bikes, and the market is only going one way.

Most of their free ride pros ride 27.5 on their YT's, with a fair few even having custom rear ends that allow for a 26 inch wheel to be fitted, so ride 27.5 up front and 26 out back.

For me the ultimate EMTB UK free ride bike would be something along the lines of the Stumpjumper Evo geometry with the Levo SL motor, 160mm up front and a bit less out back, sub 20kg, 27.5 wheels. Full on DH style travel is only a PITA unless you are riding proper dh stuff and massive kickers, and the weight of current emtbs's is the real problem if you like throwing shapes. If I lived in Morzine or Utah I might have different views! You need to have serious core and upper body strength it you want to throw around the current crop of emtb's.

Anyway its great that YT offer the different models, as it gives people who like the yt platform choice, and I would hope to see further options from them.

 

[Fx1]

You are right that the best bike is the one you are comfortable on. But as I have learnt the expensive hard way you find the limit of your bike as you progress and that limit becomes your limit.

You cannot include expert or pro riders in this for 2 reasons. Lewis Hamilton would beat anyone in a race with a porsche boxster vs an amature in a veyron. But that doesn't mean the amature wouldnt be faster in the veyron versus the boxster.

Second reason is that pros and famous riders get free bikes every 12 months. They ride brands no normal person would think about buying and that's why the brands give them free bikes. Sponsorship is everything. It also doesnt matter if they taco a wheel or blow the arse out of a 150mm shock on a 15 foot road gap.

They also can land a 150mm travel bike and not end up in a hedge or tree trunk face first even if they bottom it out or case a landing. 180mm will save your ass on a big case or bad landing. You dont need to be in morzine to need 200mm travel as an amature. I can take you to a jump to nowhere in my local woods that I would never try on a trail geo bike because you land on a steep decline and right in to a berm of leaf mulch. The guys who made the jumps ride old downhill bikes with full coil and fox 40 dual crowns because they can take the beating. Nobody is trying it on a levo or stumpy.

This isn't a question of better but a question of being more capable and if you ever need that capability. Plenty of riders never really get much better which means trail is all they will ever want or need.

 

[R120]

Like you say it all depends on what riding you yo want to do, and getting the bike that enables you to do that, you can go to far in either direction, and the great thing about a lot of todays long travel Enduro bikes is they have you covered for so much different riding. A long travel emtb is going to open up far more than it will limit.

IMO these days you only really need Dual Crown forks if you are regularly hitting massive 30ft jumps or ride a lot of proper downhill, forks like the new 38, and of course the older 36 and Lyric are so capable that you can ride pretty much anything on one bike. Great thing about the decoy is you could fit dual crowns if you want.

The actual limiting factor on single crowns IMO at the moment, is if you go up to 220/223mm rotes at the front then you can really see the fork flex way more under braking, if I am doing hard riding I quite often find I need to align my callipers at the end of the ride as the flex of the forks can knock em out, and the new Fox 38/RS Zeb is something I want to try as they have designed them with bigger rotors in mind, the new axle alignment system on the foxes in particular.

I grew up riding DH in the day when you pretty much blew out a component on every ride, and I still find what modern single crown forks can handle pretty amazing, as I had so many fail so quickly in the past. Even my EMTB feels light compared to my old DH bike from the millennium, that's still gathering dust in my parents shed, need to do a resto mod on it really!

 

[Fx1]

Like you say it all depends on what riding you yo want to do, and getting the bike that enables you to do that, you can go to far in either direction, and the great thing about a lot of todays long travel Enduro bikes is they have you covered for so much different riding. A long travel emtb is going to open up far more than it will limit.

IMO these days you only really need Dual Crown forks if you are regularly hitting massive 30ft jumps or ride a lot of proper downhill, forks like the new 38, and of course the older 36 and Lyric are so capable that you can ride pretty much anything on one bike. Great thing about the decoy is you could fit dual crowns if you want.

The actual limiting factor on single crowns IMO at the moment, is if you go up to 220/223mm rotes at the front then you can really see the fork flex way more under braking, if I am doing hard riding I quite often find I need to align my callipers at the end of the ride as the flex of the forks can knock em out, and the new Fox 38/RS Zeb is something I want to try as they have designed them with bigger rotors in mind, the new axle alignment system on the foxes in particular.

I grew up riding DH in the day when you pretty much blew out a component on every ride, and I still find what modern single crown forks can handle pretty amazing, as I had so many fail so quickly in the past. Even my EMTB feels light compared to my old DH bike from the millennium, that's still gathering dust in my parents shed, need to do a resto mod on it really!

View attachment 30602

This is kind of my exact point.

With a motor you negate nearly every downside of opting for enduro style bikes.

All you have to do is read analogue bike reviews and it's all about climbing ability, weight savings. People must still think that applies to ebikes.

Those purchasing habits must be carrying through to ebikes without realising that you can have a 38mm fox, 165mm shock and downhill build quality on a bike that can climb a fire road at 20mph!

 

[R120]

Well you negate every downside except weight, I would much rather be riding a sub 20kg EMTB, they added weight of them has benefits, but they are still too heavy to really chuck about. Something like the Nox Helium Rob just tested is the kind of bike that interests me with 180mm, coil out back, and sub 20kg. We are still very much in the Early days of EMTB, and a few years off yet from bikes that combine the best of both worlds. I would rather have lighter motor and battery than more power, for me at least the current motors are more than powerful enough to uplift anything.

Mind you my days of hitting massive jumps are over, and I like a bike you can get creative on natural trails and features and drops without feeling like you have been 10 rounds with mike Tyson after a few hours..

 

[Fx1]

Well you negate every downside except weight, I would much rather be riding a sub 20kg EMTB, they added weight of them has benefits, but they are still too heavy to really chuck about. Something like the Nox Helium Rob just tested is the kind of bike that interests me with 180mm, coil out back, and sub 20kg. We are still very much in the Early days of EMTB, and a few years off yet from bikes that combine the best of both worlds. I would rather have lighter motor and battery than more power, for me at least the current motors are more than powerful enough to uplift anything.

Mind you my days of hitting massive jumps are over, and I like a bike you can get creative on natural trails and features and drops without feeling like you have been 10 rounds with mike Tyson after a few hours..

I agree that weight is a big factor. Just at the minute the differences are negligible between XC and enduro right now. This might change obviously as we progress with the technology.

I thought I was moving away from jumping but this shuttle experience has revived my interest. Especially as i gain confidence and learn how to handle the weight.

 

[R120]

I thought I was moving away from jumping but this shuttle experience has revived my interest. Especially as i gain confidence and learn how to handle the weight.

So true

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Mind you my days of hitting massive jumps are over, and I like a bike you can get creative on natural trails and features and drops without feeling like you have been 10 rounds with mike Tyson after a few hours.. minutes

there, just thought I would correct that for you.

 

[rb.]

All I know is this:

Longer chainstay is better said nobody ever.

Rear 29 makes turning harder and is less agile.

Less travel in the suspension is a benefit to who?

Cheaper suspension and lower end dampers.

Higher BB for people worried about pedal strikes but also not good for handling.

Steeper head angle offers some agility back at the cost of downhill stability.

The 29 was engineered to appeal to one type of buyer and that was people considering a Levo. It's now a direct competitor of the probably highest volume ebike.

In bike recommendations people say levo and they dont even know why they say it. It's like they are pre programmed. In the enduro class shootout someone complained there was no Levo. They dont even know what the Levo is they just think it should win because their mate said so. The fact it didnt win it's own class let alone get considered in the enduro class speaks volumes about the type of riders who buy what.

The 29 is designed to appeal to that rider. It's less hardcore. It's less expensive and it takes less skill and strength to ride. It is less capable downhill and designed to take less big hits. It runs narrow tires and gives up structural strength in the rear wheel for lower rolling resistance. This is the very nature of a trail/XC style bike. In the same way a motor makes the downhill features easier to live with the motor does the opposite to a trail bike because it adds weight.

As the ebike market grows and becomes more affordable the rider demographic will start to change. Younger riders with higher skill and strength with less fear will be looking for more capable enduro and downhill style bikes.

The right rider can do a lot on both type of bikes but I'd not want to be hitting 6 foot drop 12 foot distance gaps on a 29er with 150mm travel and a rhythm fork.

Looks like we are gonna have to agree to disagree ok this one. I have ridden mullet bikes in the past, and didn’t like the way they handled.

And I am not part of the older crowd that just wanted a budget levo. I bought my full 29 so I could do more laps on the gnarliest trails I can find. If I take it for an xc spin on my local trails, that’s cool too. And if you think 6’ drop and 12’ gap is big, we probably aren’t riding the same trails anyways.

 

[photocycycler]

So I’m trying not to be way too over analytic but just noticing the Decoy 29 has a chaiBetsy length almost an inch longer than my normal Jeffsy 29.

I don’t expect the Decoy 29 to be extremely nimble but this worries me. Talk me off the ledge.