YT DECOY - The loam wolf shredder winner

[paquo]

They are weighing the components and making excel spreadsheets. I'm waiting till one of them realises that a pair of Y fronts weighs 100 grams less than a pair of boxer shorts. Im expect to see someone in a G string riding up an hill.
.

I understand the weight weeney thing on a 25 lbs x country bike, to drop a few pounds it is noticeable . But with the ebike it seems silly to weigh everything, most of the gain is in unsprung weight so put some lighter wheels and tires on and call it good

 

[Doomanic]

Im expect to see someone in a G string riding up an hill.

There was what looked a stag party at BPW today; one bloke in a suit and another in a white tutu...

 

[Fx1]

Analogue S works enduro now £9000.

Not even an ebike.

Next Levo is going to cost a fortune.

 

[Rich the gasman]

The pricing is just mental, spoke with 3 bike shops in NE and no one has sold a heckler yet. There’s a demand but it looks like it’s slowing down as the shops have more of the same e bikes sitting on the floor. If they can easily knock 15-20% of them then would love to know how much they actually pay for them.

 

[R120]

The problem is there isn’t really any reason for anyone to pay major money for an EMTB, given that around the 5k mark whether from a shop or direct there are some amazing bikes, and there are a lot of bikes costing way more than that sitting on shop floors.

I have yet to ride a better EMTB than my Vitus E-Sommett, I have been lucky enough to put time on a lot of the top bikes and some are as fun to ride, but nothing that has made me reach for my wallet, and I am a serial bike buyer. I had a YT on order last year, but had a chance to ride one and cancelled the order, I liked it but was it offering anything over my Sommett? No - EMTB’s just haven’t progressed enough or jumped ahead in tech yet for me to consider another bike. The only bike that came close was the new Whyte e150rs, but the difficult to remove battery put me off.

The Sommett cost me 3.8k, they have got pricier this year, but with EMTB’s even more than regular bikes paying though the nose doesn’t mean your getting a better bike.

 

[JonasH]

Hi,

The comments in this review regarding harsness over small rocks and roots, did they fiddle with the shock adding huge amounts of HSC/LSC or did YT do something? Read other reviews were they praised the plushness....

YT Decoy Pro Race Review - eBike Shootout Podium Placer!

 

[Fx1]

Hi,

The comments in this review regarding harsness over small rocks and roots, did they fiddle with the shock adding huge amounts of HSC/LSC or did YT do something? Read other reviews were they praised the plushness....

YT Decoy Pro Race Review - eBike Shootout Podium Placer!

Given the 4 different adjustments on the grip 2 damper I'd say that its user error or faulty shock.

We are in the realm of marginal gains in terms of suspension and geometry and the YT geo has the right numbers in the right places.

 

[JonasH]

Given the 4 different adjustments on the grip 2 damper I'd say that its user error or faulty shock.

We are in the realm of marginal gains in terms of suspension and geometry and the YT geo has the right numbers in the right places.

Meant the shock X2, not the fork. But the X2 also have 4 adjustments so it probably applies for that as well?

 

[Fx1]

Given the 4 different adjustments on the grip 2 damper I'd say that its user error or faulty shock.

We are in the realm of marginal gains in terms of suspension and geometry and the YT geo has the right numbers in the right places.

Meant the shock X2, not the fork. But the X2 also have 4 adjustments so it probably applies for that as well?

The issue is that none of the reviews say if it's the fork or rear shock.

Air has less small bump compliance than coil. Coil blows through the travel on unexpected larger than normal hits. Tyre PSI and side wall has more impact than any suspension on small bumps.

I'm of the opinion that bike reviewers are morons. Especially ones who dislike a bike and then like the following years bike where the bike is nearly identical.

 

[R120]

Does the 2020 Decoy still come with a 2.8 tyre on the rear? Thats the first thing I would change, going to a 2.5 or 2.6 would sharpen up the handling as you just cant rail a 2.8 hard into a turn if its run at a lower pressure as you will burp it, and for me on a long travel rear end running a plus tyre makes rear suspension set up even more complex as you have such variables form the tyre behaviour.. I wonder if they where running different tyres, or had control tyres across the tests?

For me if doing bike comparisons it makes sense to put all the bikes on the same tyre if possible, as this alone can have a huge effect on the handling of a bike.

For example a 2019 Kenevo running smaller tyres to the stock 2.8's is almost like a completely different bike, a lot more direct, responsive and nimble to ride.

 

[Martinintirol]

Wow this has sure turned into a Specialized bashing thread

I have owned lots of Specialized bikes over the years and still own one (not a Levo .. it was not the right choice for where and how I ride).

I love the design and the engineering Specialized puts into their bikes … top notch .. BUT as many have noted, the only area I would suggest needs to be improved are the PRICES.

Reasoning: The concept of using House Brand parts .. such as Handlebars, Stems, dropper posts, wheelsets, tires, saddles, etc. should result in a LOWER price than the competition rather than higher. In the case of Specialized, MRSP prices are significantly higher than their competition and is one of the "things that make you go Mmmmmm "

IMO (and everybody's opinion is biased) .. Specialized (and arguably other large manufacturers ) should be following Giants example .. and if your going to spec your bikes with house branded parts .. then in theory you should be able to sell your bikes for LESS than the competition .. or at least in the same ballpark. Isn't that the point of using house branded parts?

I would never hesitate buying any brand of bike and certainly take every internet review with a "grain of salt".

I think in the end, bashing each others e-bikes is the same mentality as many Analog bike riders have towards e-bikes. We need to be less like them and embrace others who ride e-bikes ... irrelevant of brand

Well said!!

 

[Martinintirol]

I will never think again about a joke. Snowflakes be dammed. Also the mrs would ride an SL but not my decoy. I was serious about that bit.

Bikes are massively over priced. All of them. Emtb are the worst for it. And to be clear I think the levo is a good bike. I have no problem with the bike it's the owners that i find hilarious. They are weighing the components and making excel spreadsheets. I'm waiting till one of them realises that a pair of Y fronts weighs 100 grams less than a pair of boxer shorts. Im expect to see someone in a G string riding up an hill.

I didn't buy the YT because of marketing or reviews. I bought it because of the spec and the geo and price. Nothing else really matters. If it breaks then it breaks. I'll get a refund or a new bike. Direct manufacturer sale is like a dream in terms of contract law and warranty. The uneducated think a LBS is better. More fool them I say.

I think a LBS is better from a relationship, convenience and service point of view. I do know of bike shops that refuse to service
direct to consumer brands. Is that the right attitude? I don't know, but that is their decision.

 

[Deleted member 7401]

Let’s not forget reviews are often times manipulated by money AKA advertising dollars!

 

[Fx1]

I will never think again about a joke. Snowflakes be dammed. Also the mrs would ride an SL but not my decoy. I was serious about that bit.

Bikes are massively over priced. All of them. Emtb are the worst for it. And to be clear I think the levo is a good bike. I have no problem with the bike it's the owners that i find hilarious. They are weighing the components and making excel spreadsheets. I'm waiting till one of them realises that a pair of Y fronts weighs 100 grams less than a pair of boxer shorts. Im expect to see someone in a G string riding up an hill.

I didn't buy the YT because of marketing or reviews. I bought it because of the spec and the geo and price. Nothing else really matters. If it breaks then it breaks. I'll get a refund or a new bike. Direct manufacturer sale is like a dream in terms of contract law and warranty. The uneducated think a LBS is better. More fool them I say.

I think a LBS is better from a relationship, convenience and service point of view. I do know of bike shops that refuse to service
direct to consumer brands. Is that the right attitude? I don't know, but that is their decision.

There are many assumptions though. Firstly your LBS might be a twat. Be broke or going out of business. Your contract is with that store. Would you feel comfortable making a store pay for a bad bike? As soon as your out of warranty then the store is your only recourse. It's only convenient if the store sorts the problem out using their own stock. A manufacturer might be just as slow sending a part to a store as direct to you.

In theory any warranty from a manufacturer would be 6 years if inside the EU. A small claims court claim against a manufacturer would likely result in a full new bike or a full refund. I would prefer that to a repair job for 2 years from purchase.

 

[Fx1]

Does the 2020 Decoy still come with a 2.8 tyre on the rear? Thats the first thing I would change, going to a 2.5 or 2.6 would sharpen up the handling as you just cant rail a 2.8 hard into a turn if its run at a lower pressure as you will burp it, and for me on a long travel rear end running a plus tyre makes rear suspension set up even more complex as you have such variables form the tyre behaviour.. I wonder if they where running different tyres, or had control tyres across the tests?

For me if doing bike comparisons it makes sense to put all the bikes on the same tyre if possible, as this alone can have a huge effect on the handling of a bike.

For example a 2019 Kenevo running smaller tyres to the stock 2.8's is almost like a completely different bike, a lot more direct, responsive and nimble to ride.

Omg. I have just had an epiphany.

Doesnt the loam wolf have a tyre sponsor!!! This shootout all had the same tyres!!!

That's a massive testing difference from 2019!

 

[Doomanic]

In theory any warranty from a manufacturer would be 6 years if inside the EU.

What's your plan come December 31st?

 

[Fx1]

In theory any warranty from a manufacturer would be 6 years if inside the EU.

What's your plan come December 31st?

Doesnt change. Consumer act is UK law. Sell in the UK you are bound by those laws.

 

[R120]

Omg. I have just had an epiphany.

Doesnt the loam wolf have a tyre sponsor!!! This shootout all had the same tyres!!!

That's a massive testing difference from 2019!

Well I am glad you found a reason those fake news bike testers came up with such different opinions!!!

 

[R120]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the warranty is direct with the manufacture, the shop just handles it - I dont think buying from an lbs or direct makes any difference to how a warranty will be dealt with, but buying via a good LBS might make things a lot quicker.

At the moment its only Specilized who allow shops to keep spare motors in stock, and give the shop the ability to change them if they think its a warranty issue - this is why the likes of Berkshire Cycles, Freeborn and Raceco can turn around a motor swap so quickly.

Currently Shimano and Bosch require a suspected faulty motor to be returned to them first for testing, though you have to do so through the manufacturer or in the case of Shimano via an lbs that has a Madison account so they can create a job number for it.

When my motors went the first one was an 8 week wait with CRC before I gave up with them and went direct via lbs with Madison, who turned it around in 10 days. The new motor did have a fresh 2 year warranty direct from Shimano from the date of the warranty

 

[Martinintirol]

Doesnt change. Consumer act is UK law. Sell in the UK you are bound by those laws.

Yes, and I am a Brit living in the EU buying an American bike... Thankfully the LBS (and there are quite a few LBS's here that are twats) are pretty damn decent. They actually called a Rockshox warranty for me on a bike purchased from a different LBS and 1 year out of warranty. Replacement fork and no labour charge either. That's why they are getting my money for my first Emtb.

 

[Doomanic]

Your claims don't match YT's posted warranty though;

The quality of our bikes is our number one priority. That’s why we offer a warrenty period of five years on all bike frames, and two years on all CAPRA and JEFFSY frames bought before 2018.
All components are covered by a two-year warranty, damage to paint or anodization not included. Components such as bearings, seals and drivetrain parts (cassettes, chains, etc) are subject to wear and tear, we will be happy to care for or replace those as part of our Maintenance service.

 

[Fx1]

Your claims don't match YT's posted warranty though;

The quality of our bikes is our number one priority. That’s why we offer a warrenty period of five years on all bike frames, and two years on all CAPRA and JEFFSY frames bought before 2018.
All components are covered by a two-year warranty, damage to paint or anodization not included. Components such as bearings, seals and drivetrain parts (cassettes, chains, etc) are subject to wear and tear, we will be happy to care for or replace those as part of our Maintenance service.

Warranty and consumer rights are different. Warranty is a minimum for 2 years inside the EU. Consumer rights are actually not limited but something of high value is 6 years or more. Consumer rights are contract rights with the person you paid for the goods. If the manufacturer is also the retailer then essentially your warranty is 6 years or more in effect. The burden of proof is different but I have yet to see a company come to court to argue. It's too expensive to fight for them.

Is berkshire cycles going to keep replacing your motor for free after 2 years? No chance. Could you force him? Yes most likely. Is it fair? I'd say not really. Is it fair on you? Also no.

The reason specialized allow motor replacements so easily is because they know their motor has some serious reliability problems. It wont be long till the first Levos run out of warranty and then just wait until the complaints start.

Most people are ignorant to their rights and the laws that protect consumers.

 

[Fx1]

Omg. I have just had an epiphany.

Doesnt the loam wolf have a tyre sponsor!!! This shootout all had the same tyres!!!

That's a massive testing difference from 2019!

Well I am glad you found a reason those fake news bike testers came up with such different opinions!!!

They ran 2.6 eddy current tyres on all the bikes. That is quite different to 2.8 dhr thin wall tyre on the back.

 

[Bomble]

Currently Shimano and Bosch require a suspected faulty motor to be returned to them first for testing, though you have to do so through the manufacturer or in the case of Shimano via an lbs that has a Madison account so they can create a job number for it.

I've had a couple of replacement Bosch motors. Each time the dealer plugged it in to the computer and then let me take the bike away to still ride (noisy bearings but still rode fine.)
He then rang me when the new motor arrived and i dropped bike off and he replaced it that day.

 

[JonasH]

For Risk mitigation i will keep my Levo 2019, would not have the balls to live in Norway and risk missing out on several weeks of good riding while in worst case have to send the bike/motor/battery back to YT in Germany.

An other question, did not see the battery downtube cover as a replacement part. What do you do for downtube protection? Is the current cover burly enough?

 

[Fx1]

For Risk mitigation i will keep my Levo 2019, would not have the balls to live in Norway and risk missing out on several weeks of good riding while in worst case have to send the bike/motor/battery back to YT in Germany.

An other question, did not see the battery downtube cover as a replacement part. What do you do for downtube protection? Is the current cover burly enough?

What you going to do next year with no warranty?

 

[R120]

I dont get why you think the YT has any better warranty than the Levo, or any other EMTB for that matter? On the motor Side of things it has a 2 year warranty, same as the Levo? Shimano simply won't warranty a motor if it is over two years old. Having gone through 2 replacement motors with Shimano I know that you have to provide clear evidence of date of purchase to prove it is within warranty.

 

[Fx1]

I dont get why you think the YT has any better warranty than the Levo, or any other EMTB for that matter? On the motor Side of things it has a 2 year warranty, same as the Levo? Shimano simply won't warranty a motor if it is over two years old. Having gone through 2 replacement motors with Shimano I know that you have to provide clear evidence of date of purchase to prove it is within warranty.

Have I not already explained this in the huge post above?

 

[R120]

No. What do you anticipate the process will be if you need to warranty your motor once the Shimano 2 year period has expired?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Warranty and consumer rights are different. Warranty is a minimum for 2 years inside the EU. Consumer rights are actually not limited but something of high value is 6 years or more. Consumer rights are contract rights with the person you paid for the goods. If the manufacturer is also the retailer then essentially your warranty is 6 years or more in effect. The burden of proof is different but I have yet to see a company come to court to argue. It's too expensive to fight for them.

I'm sorry but this is just not correct. Your understanding of 'warranty' is different to that used in that EU Directive.

The EU Directive states that each member state must allow a consumer at least two years to seek a remedy from a seller. Not a warranty.