Unanswered Yari Charger upgrade reduce stiction?

[Planemo]

I have a set of Yari's on my 2020 AllMtn 3.0 and after 500 miles I still feel they have more stiction than I want. I am comparing this to various Fox, Suntour and RS forks I have used over a few years, none of which were a 'higher spec' than the Yari's (basic Fox 34's, RS Reba's, Suntour 35 Aions)

Although the Yari's are pretty much new, I have had the air side completely apart as I replaced the Debonair spring with a 180. All looked OK inside tbf, no excess grease/not dry anywhere, all seemed about right. I added a little oil to the sponges and cleaned/re-lubed the wipers anyway given the lowers were off. Stiction wise, it felt exactly the same after so I presume it was OK to start with.

So the only thing I haven't touched is the damper side. Is the stock 2020 Motion Control really that bad? I could do without spending what will be around £250 (as I would replace the wipers with SKF at the same time) for a Charger but I will plump for it if it solves the problem.

I have googled as much as I can but many of the reports (mainly good, but some saying no difference except on big hits) are on older Yari's which I have read used a lower quality MC system.

It's not even like I am after an improvement in damper adjustability - the stock setup is fine for my purposes, it's just this bloody stiction I am trying to get rid of as the small bump compliance is getting on my nerves. Does the MC system have a lot more going on inside to increase stiction? Or is it just the wipers? The wipers felt pretty good when I slid the lowers back on so I don't think they are the main culprit. Either that or I guess the bushings need to be reamed but I am trying to avoid that.

At this rate I'm tempted to remove the whole damper side and run the tube totally open just to see what it feels like.

Anyone fitted a Charger to some late Yari's that can advise if it helped stiction?

 

[EuanS2]

At first I changed just the damper on my Yari to the ultimate RC2 and I wasn't overly impressed as I was still getting heaps of stiction! A couple of things that the Yari doesn't have which higher end Rockshox forks do are 1, it doesn't come with 3mm of oil in the positive side of the air chamber and 2 it doesn't come with low friction wiper seals... Putting the 3mm of oil into the positive side of the air chamber made quite a bit of difference for me as did changing the wiper seals to Push ultra low friction. Maybe try these 2 things first before splashing out on a new damper

 

[Planemo]

At first I changed just the damper on my Yari to the ultimate RC2 and I wasn't overly impressed as I was still getting heaps of stiction! A couple of things that the Yari doesn't have which higher end Rockshox forks do are 1, it doesn't come with 3mm of oil in the positive side of the air chamber and 2 it doesn't come with low friction wiper seals... Putting the 3mm of oil into the positive side of the air chamber made quite a bit of difference for me as did changing the wiper seals to Push ultra low friction. Maybe try these 2 things first before splashing out on a new damper

Many thanks for your reply! I am 99.99% sure I added 3ml into the positive side of the airspring as I saw that on the SRAM service manual. Well, it says to do so if 'RockShox Dynamic Seal Grease is used' which I assumed it was because they were untouched from the factory and had grease applied so....

Re the wipers, I think I will give that a go. You are the first person I have read of that has fitted the Charger and it not making much of a difference to stiction so thats great info. The Push ones are bloody expensive, even more so than SKF but like you say, maybe worth a go because if it reduces a lot of the problem then I save on getting the Charger. Cheers!

I guess if I wanted to rule out the wipers being suspected entirely, I could just remove them and cycle the forks a few times to see what it feels like but I would want new ones to put back in anyway so...

 

[RustyMTB]

I did exactly this to a set of Yaris. You say newer Yaris but don't say what year? Mine are 2017 for reference. Stiction was never an issue with mine, rather the agricultural bump compliance of the MC damper which I have found to improve no end by swapping over for a Debonair & an RCT3 damper, essentially turning it into a Lyrik. I've found the Yari prone to fork suck which definitely feels like stiction, worth measuring the unladen travel to see if that's an issue with yours before spending £££s.

 

[Planemo]

Cheers, the Yari's are 2020 on a Haibike as I posted

Due to this they already have the Debonair, and are 'as new' with 500 miles on them. As I mentioned, I think the later forks had an 'improved' MC damper so I think the one in mine is likely to be better than the 2017 version anyway. I hear you re fork suck though, they do sit a little low but then they all do this to some extent? It's certainly been the same with both air springs I have used (160 and 180mm).

 

[Gary]

Is the stock 2020 Motion Control really that bad?

Nope.

infact a charger will make no real difference to most folk

 

[KenX]

Or a Smashpot coil conversion if it's reducing stiction you're after? Fitted one to my Yari and it's night and day for low stiction/plushness

 

[Gary]

'as new' with 500 miles on them.

500 miles is not "as new" When did you last do a lower service on them?

 

[RustyMTB]

Cheers, the Yari's are 2020 on a Haibike as I posted

Due to this they already have the Debonair, and are 'as new' with 500 miles on them. As I mentioned, I think the later forks had an 'improved' MC damper so I think the one in mine is likely to be better than the 2017 version anyway. I hear you re fork suck though, they do sit a little low but then they all do this to some extent? It's certainly been the same with both air springs I have used (160 and 180mm).

Ah yeah, 2020

I'm running a Pike, Reba & Yari on various bikes & the Yari is definitely the suckiest. The charge damper is an improvement over MC full stop, whether it's worth the expense is a matter for you but either way, ignore old tartan bollocks there, you're not most folk, you're you & the best solution for you is the one you get the most out of for your riding.

 

[Gary]

which damper does your "superior" Reba have Rusty?

 

[RustyMTB]

Piss off Gary, find another empty room to start an argument in. ?

 

[Gary]

So That will be Motion control then. Aye?

?

maybe even an older version of motion control than the OPs ?

 

[Planemo]

Or a Smashpot coil conversion if it's reducing stiction you're after? Fitted one to my Yari and it's night and day for low stiction/plushness

So you're saying the stiction is coming from the air side and nothing to do with the damper side....?! Oh gawd its gets deeper..

 

[Planemo]

500 miles is not "as new" When did you last do a lower service on them?

When the 180 went in, around 150 miles ago. Bear in mind around 400 of those miles have been road/light trail. Its irrelevant anyway cos the stiction has felt the same since wheeling the bike out of the store to how it is now.

 

[Gary]

when you reinstalled the Lowers you say they went on easily and smoothly. I've serviced some Yaris that really don't. So doesn't sound like that's your issue.
Did you also fit new (nicely soaked) foam rings and greaee the seal lip well?
And when you replaced the Lowers did you make sure the damper and spring rods were fully extended before doing up the foot bolts? Then replace the air cap last?
Also.. How do you have them set up? (pressure, tokens, rebound speed and compression adjuster position?) and what do you weigh and how do you ride?

 

[Planemo]

Rings were well soaked. Lips greased. Yes both rods extended (I think I checked by pulling the lowers to full extension after) air cap last. Zero tokens, compression full open, not sure on rebound but I think its either fully open or a few clicks. Will check. No idea on air pressure, will check. I just set it for correct sag (30%) and took no notice of pressure. Again, will check. I am around 95kg and ride pretty tame for the most part. I go to Morzine every year but obvs the suspension gets set up very differently to the above for that.

Apart from the stiction they feel fine for my current ride needs. I just find it annoying and believe they can do better.

 

[Gary]

Thanks.
That all sounds fine set-up and servicing wise. 30% is waaay more sag than I run on any fork but that's just personal preference. (With no tokens I'd bottom the shit out of a Yari set to 30%)
Yaris (more basic damper) doesn't cope so well with a lot of compression IME so you're better upping the pressure slightly and reducing sag to stop them diving than using a lot. for the same reason they IME run nicer with rebound set slightly fast too (not overly)

I'd honestly replace your wiper seals before splashing out on a new damper. But when you whip off the lowers to fit them also test the damper side for any oddness/stickiness and service that too if needs be. it's not a complicated damper to service.

 

[Planemo]

Yeah no tokens, 30% and very little damping is soffffffttt but yes for most of the year the bike doesnt get hammered at all really.

I think I will deffo try the wipers first, have you any opinion on SKF Vs Push?

 

[Gary]

While you have the seals out I'd also fit the lowers on just one stanchion at a time to see if there's any individual leg bushing friction.
Then if you fit the lowers to both stanchions (still with no seals) you should see if friction increases noticably. If it does I'd suspect slightly out of alignment lower or uppers (as if one or the other is out of tolerance or twisted).
I generally fit RS SKF seals to Yari's/Lyriks and have only ever fitted Push seals to Fox forks. Fresh out of the packet if anything I'd say the RS have less friction. Both will "break in" with use though. for this reason I tend not to change wiper seals very often on my own forks.

 

[Planemo]

Hmm trying each lower at a time without a wiper seems like a good shout actually. Will give that a go cheers. Interesting re the wiper info, sounds like I will go with the SKF. I am sure they must be good enough that if theres still issues then I need to be looking somewhere else. Thanks.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I replaced the moco damper with a RC2, & SKF seals. Night & day difference. Absolute night & day difference. I'm not usually one to rave about how good things are, in fact I'm generally cynical but even riding down the driveway the plushness was apparent. On the trail it was beautiful. The damper was over 1/3 the price of a new fork but I'd still do it again.

 

[Planemo]

Cheers for that Doug. I must admit, I do have a feeling I will end up with the Charger, but I think I am going to do the SKF seals first just to see how it goes. Good to hear the Yaris felt really good to you with both items done though, it re-assures me that I won't end up having to get another set of forks at least.