Would you ride it? Turbo Creo SL with all new motor

[HarveyMiller]

I not only would ride it but I purchased it. been out with it now five times and it is an absolute Joy.

 

[ggx]

Very expen$$$ive this spez. A road bike is in general a light /fast bike. Only see advantages in rides with lots of moutain rods.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Had a close up look, beautiful thing ,I'd love one,my road bike is very light but it ain't got a motor ☹ I've grown rather fond of motors on bikes ?

 

[HarveyMiller]

The main advantage for me is fun. It's fun to go fast under most conditions as long as safety is kept in mind. The nice thing about this bike is its Seamless integration with peddling motion. I still get the work out I would normally do. But I go faster and that makes the difference for me. It's a beautiful machine And it's very very quiet. For me that counts also.

Very expen$$$ive this spez. A road bike is in general a light /fast bike. Only see advantages in rides with lots of moutain rods.

 

[HarveyMiller]

I own the Creo SL Comp Carbon. I absolutely LOVE this pedelec (isn't that what it actually is?). I'm in good shape, been "seriously" riding for 40 years (age 69). I love speed and, though I'm putting out my usual wattages, this baby handles speed, turns, descents and road bumps beautifully (I'm riding with 38's) and I've been getting about 5 mph (8kph) faster averages, typically. It definitely feels like I'm stronger, not like I'm being pushed. In fact, I feel 40 years younger and it brings back those memories of rides long ago.

The range may be an official maximum of 80 miles (120 k) but, with me it's been more like 40-45 if I use the onboard battery judiciously (1600 feet elevation) or 58 miles with the Range Extender, in the Sport mode almost exclusively.

I've ridden with one of the local clubs several times and, though the jokes abound, they are honestly complementary of the bike's looks and they're also full of questions about how it operates. A couple of them are now saying that they'll probably be getting one. I think it helped that I didn't show off but, rather, road respectfully (only riding with the lead cyclist/group and not blowing it all up).

I love that I can tune the motor's reactions to my input via the Mission Control app and that the app includes inputs for expected elevation for the ride. I can hardly wait until I can download the actual gpx file into the specs for this app (Specialized told me it's coming).

One word about descents. I'm a pretty good descender but, with the 38s this bike can go down fast and the turns are solid.
Above 32-34 mph (52-55kph) the gearing feels a bit limited but, to me, that's not a big issue.

 

[tvandall]

Harvey congratulations you inspire me. Sounds like you are having a blast. Ride Safe!
I can't wait to try one. I'm still riding my light carbon roadie in between emtb rides and love the speed while pushing my heart rate for sustained road bike work outs. However, the restricted speed on any ebike in particular a Creo is absolutely ridiculous. When I can hit faster speeds on my analogue bike why pay 10,000 for bike with stupid nanny restrictions. Yeah I know the climbing! Think about it ... tons of cars and motorcycles on the road can do 300+ kph, many trucks can do 160+ kph and they all can inflict infinitely more damage in the hands of a reckless and irresponsible driver. But they aren't restricted. So why pick on ebikes with draconian restrictions? It all has to be common sense ride/drive at a safe speed for the road/trail and traffic conditions and don't put others at risk. Follow speed limits and just be a courteous rider/driver. For my EMTB I don't care as I rarely am going fast but for the Creo I'm going to want to access its speed potential in the flats beyond my analogue bike. Can't wait to try one. I'll likely buy one as long as the nanny shit can be turned off without voiding a warranty. Love all the new toys being developed for us.

 

[CjP]

Harvey congratulations you inspire me. Sounds like you are having a blast. Ride Safe!
I can't wait to try one. I'm still riding my light carbon roadie in between emtb rides and love the speed while pushing my heart rate for sustained road bike work outs. However, the restricted speed on any ebike in particular a Creo is absolutely ridiculous. When I can hit faster speeds on my analogue bike why pay 10,000 for bike with stupid nanny restrictions. Yeah I know the climbing! Think about it ... tons of cars and motorcycles on the road can do 300+ kph, many trucks can do 160+ kph and they all can inflict infinitely more damage in the hands of a reckless and irresponsible driver. But they aren't restricted. So why pick on ebikes with draconian restrictions? It all has to be common sense ride/drive at a safe speed for the road/trail and traffic conditions and don't put others at risk. Follow speed limits and just be a courteous rider/driver. For my EMTB I don't care as I rarely am going fast but for the Creo I'm going to want to access its speed potential in the flats beyond my analogue bike. Can't wait to try one. I'll likely buy one as long as the nanny shit can be turned off without voiding a warranty. Love all the new toys being developed for us.

Maybe because there is no one to police the speed limits. Do we really want trail police or speed cameras to to fine us on trials?
It’s a simple solution and it really isn’t that bad having a speed limit. If 25km/32km + speed is your thing then stick to what gives you that thrill.
Rules need to be in pace to stop the ones that don’t respect others on the trails.
I for one love my ebike and everything it allows me to experience. If I want more speed I’ll just buy a motorbike.

 

[tvandall]

Christian believe it or not we do have police showing up on our busiest trails to ensure ebikers are not breaking our 32 k limits. I'm fine with that. As you likely are aware the home builders are building some pretty fast ebikes and a busy trail is not the place for them to test speed. They are welcome on the roads as long as they follow traffic rules as motorcyclists do. Fortunately for us we have hundreds of kms of dedicated bike lanes in Victoria BC. It is very easy to get to 40-45 kms solo on our road bikes and higher in a peloton in these safe dedicated lanes. This is why having a restricted CREO makes little sense.

We should pole road bike riders with e bike experience concerning the Creo nanny factor. Think if it wasn't there, there would be way more interest

 

[CjP]

Christian believe it or not we do have police showing up on our busiest trails to ensure ebikers are not breaking our 32 k limits. I'm fine with that. As you likely are aware the home builders are building some pretty fast ebikes and a busy trail is not the place for them to test speed. They are welcome on the roads as long as they follow traffic rules as motorcyclists do. Fortunately for us we have hundreds of kms of dedicated bike lanes in Victoria BC. It is very easy to get to 40-45 kms solo on our road bikes and higher in a peloton in these safe dedicated lanes. This is why having a restricted CREO makes little sense.

We should pole road bike riders with e bike experience concerning the Creo nanny factor. Think if it wasn't there, there would be way more interest

On the road I understand but you have to draw the line somewhere. People will just abuse it cause they can. Personally more than 25km on an actual bush trail is more than enough.
As for bush police, we don’t have them here in Aus that I’m aware and I’d really like it to stay that way. It’s an enjoyable sport and it would be really nice to keep it a sport. It’s bad enough that government interferes with trail building as it is.
It’s nice that you guys get 32km/h though.

 

[tvandall]

Hey just a clarification they only show up on our major high traffic trails which are multi use, walking, running, biking lanes. These are wide like a one lane road, some areas made out of an old railway bed so flat, open and wide but usually too busy to be going very fast. They don't show up on any bush or serious MTB trails. Most of our trails are technical with lots of roots and rock so speeds are relatively low anyway. i

Regarding road biking, Victoria is the national training center for our Canadian athletes as its the one part of Canada that rarely gets snow so you can (e)bike here year round. Tons of bike lanes and great roads with undulating terrain. Road biking is very popular. So seeing pelotons and road bike riders ripping by at high speeds is very common in our local area. I would need a Creo that can stay with the pack. 32km limit ain't gonna come close so why this restriction kills the viability of this bike. If the motor won't turn on I don't want to haul an extra 15 lbs of bike along with me to try and ride with my friends.

Cheers

 

[CjP]

Hey just a clarification they only show up on our major high traffic trails which are multi use, walking, running, biking lanes. These are wide like a one lane road, some areas made out of an old railway bed so flat, open and wide but usually too busy to be going very fast. They don't show up on any bush or serious MTB trails. Most of our trails are technical with lots of roots and rock so speeds are relatively low anyway. i

Regarding road biking, Victoria is the national training center for our Canadian athletes as its the one part of Canada that rarely gets snow so you can (e)bike here year round. Tons of bike lanes and great roads with undulating terrain. Road biking is very popular. So seeing pelotons and road bike riders ripping by at high speeds is very common in our local area. I would need a Creo that can stay with the pack. 32km limit ain't gonna come close so why this restriction kills the viability of this bike. If the motor won't turn on I don't want to haul an extra 15 lbs of bike along with me to try and ride with my friends.

Cheers

I get what your saying but if the bike could hit 40 or 50km/h people will just abuse that on the trails and end up hurting people.
Also these athletes you speak of, can they hit those speeds going uphill? Any serious roadie probably isn’t interested in ebikes anyway so I don’t understand the desire to have an ebike go so fast.
Most ebikers are just great full they can get out riding trails without having a heart attack. Personally I got an ebike due to a back injury and I can ride almost as long as I used to. I think it’s the best thing invented since the wheel.
I guess it could be worse, you could have our 25km/h limit.

 

[tvandall]

I don't think so but we can agree to disagree. 40-50k is only realistic on a paved road in our area anyways (not trails) where the analogue road bikes already routinely reach these speeds. The fundamental difference is road biking is very different from trail mtb riding. They are done at vastly different speeds and conditions. Note the Creo has very accurate torque sensors so it can very accurately measure wattage output of the rider (actually all the Turbo's do I believe) which is of great interest to roadies who want to train. So these bikes have huge potential for pro riders during their training and I would not be surprised to find in 5 years we see competitive e road bike racing. I think it is coming for sure. The nanny limit has got to go

40-50 k is untenable on our trails so the abuse on trails couldn't happen combined with the fact we have a very active community of cyclists that promote and practice good etiquette. We don't need some arbitrary limit dictated to us on a 10,000 bike. Its like selling you a car with an 70 km speed limiter in it.

Anyway we'll all see what happens in the next 5 years. Uniformed fear is likely the at the root of these limits. Just like when snowboards weren't allowed on ski hills. I predict +ve changes will come. Thanks for listening.

Cheers

 

[CjP]

I understand what your saying. I have no interest in road cycling so I’ve never really looked into how it affects that discipline. The tech is still new and until they are fully accepted by people I think their usage will be limited. Once more interest is taken into understanding ebikes a little better I’m sure the rules will be altered to suit.

 

[HarveyMiller]

Harvey congratulations you inspire me. Sounds like you are having a blast. Ride Safe!
I can't wait to try one. I'm still riding my light carbon roadie in between emtb rides and love the speed while pushing my heart rate for sustained road bike work outs. However, the restricted speed on any ebike in particular a Creo is absolutely ridiculous. When I can hit faster speeds on my analogue bike why pay 10,000 for bike with stupid nanny restrictions. Yeah I know the climbing! Think about it ... tons of cars and motorcycles on the road can do 300+ kph, many trucks can do 160+ kph and they all can inflict infinitely more damage in the hands of a reckless and irresponsible driver. But they aren't restricted. So why pick on ebikes with draconian restrictions? It all has to be common sense ride/drive at a safe speed for the road/trail and traffic conditions and don't put others at risk. Follow speed limits and just be a courteous rider/driver. For my EMTB I don't care as I rarely am going fast but for the Creo I'm going to want to access its speed potential in the flats beyond my analogue bike. Can't wait to try one. I'll likely buy one as long as the nanny shit can be turned off without voiding a warranty. Love all the new toys being developed for us.

 

[HarveyMiller]

Note that the US version which is what I got has a Assisted speed to 28 miles an hour which is 45 km per hour.

 

[Mabman]

Note that the US version which is what I got has a Assisted speed to 28 miles an hour which is 45 km per hour.

On a Creo I would imagine you would get less than an hour of ride time at that tempo nor the gearing to be pedaling effectively.

The Creo is a road bike and not apt to show up on "trails" other than bike paths and lanes. Also anyone that has ridden an eBike uphill knows that it won't magically go 45kmh up any grade, especially a 250w (sic) version. My 1000w peak road bikes bog down and eat wh's like candy if I max it out on a hill climb so I toodle up at around 350w and save the 45k stuff for the down side where the extra weight of the system can get you going as fast as you dare to go.

But you still need a high enough gear to pedal effectively at speed and I just don't see a 46/11 117" gear being enough to do so on level ground. On my road bikes I use a front hub motor and Schlumpf High Speed drives with the equivalent of a 160" gear which allows me human effective human input on level ground at speed. A big issue I have found however is that aerodynamics take effect at speeds over 40kmh and if you are in it for distance any motor assistance used beyond that will shorten your ride considerably if you are crutching not crushing.....

As much as I Iike the torque sensing PAS on my eMTB I don't like PAS on my road bikes. For the consistent higher cadence I achieve on the road I prefer to not have PAS dictating my tempo/speed ratio whole "magic" legs effect. I set my desired watt output and pedal away as normal with no additional tension on the drive train nor worries about shifting under load as that is as normal dictated by common shifting sense while the motor does its thing unabated.

I have a new version underway that also features a(nother) new wheel standard coming available that is very promising in the gravel sector which is my primary interest as I have many miles of logging roads with no traffic and nice views where I live in OR.



Awaiting components for the final hookup but even with the hub motor in place this bike rides a treat. 40c @ 30psi all day, steel frame/fork so great small bump compliance and a brifter operated dropper for when things get rad....Although it will weigh in around 40lbs. when the 864wh battery is on board, if my other bikes are any indication, handling is not effected by the extra weight at all.

Not trying to be a buzz kill here but after over 7000 miles of road time I just don't see a 250w restricted type bike in my future. But am glad that those that are investing are getting what they want out of them....

 

[Fivetones]

Worth having a look at this thread as this was discussed at length recently:

The end for ebike tuning? - EMTB Forums

There are some good reasons why the limits were set in terms of getting our bikes accepted as bikes and not being motor vehicles requiring registration, road tax, banning from cycle ways, insurance and a license. Versus that I think I’d accept the limit of assistance. Remember it is not a speed limit and these new generation of motors in the SL Specialized bikes pedal well beyond the assistance limit.

Anyone ever taken the battery out of a Creo (or Levo SL for that matter) and run acoustic? I know you’re still carrying the motor but it could still be light enough to feel like a ‘normal’ bike.

 

[Mabman]

That is not an issue where I live/ride fortunately. There is a 1000w limit here in OR and we are keeping the Class laws at bay and raise the upper limit from 20 to 25mph, which oddly enough they allow scooters here and who wants to go 25 on them?

Where I primarily ride nobody is getting hurt by it access wise as the logging roads would be considered off road use where restrictions don't apply unless posted. When I am on public roadways, mainly 2 lane country tarmac, I keep it at reasonable for the situation speeds at all times, am courteous to others and have a bell when on MUP's/bike lanes.

 

[HarveyMiller]

Sorry if what I address here has been addressed otherwise, but...

I have experimented sufficiently with the Creo and found that, for me, I've observed the following:

When riding in "Sport" mode which I've programmed to assist from 40-100% of the motor's output (240 watts) depending on my pedal effort (I generally average from 120-135 watts in my rides) that I use from 2.75-3% of the battery's potential output per mile in terrain that varies from 25 to 50 miles and from 280-2600 feet elevation. When using the Range Extender battery I start the count at 150%, otherwise at 100% (both my batteries being new). Note that my gear and myself, combined, weighed 207 lbs. when taking this data during temperatures in the upper 40's with typical winds of 15-25 mph (in a circular route which allows for the wind to sort of cancel its effect out). As such I obtain sufficient ranges for the great majority of my rides.
In Eco mode I've programmed the battery to output 35% of the motor's power at all times while pedaling. This has translated to a use of 1.25% of the battery power per mile or total ranges of from 80-120 miles under the same conditions as above. I feel that riding in Eco mode yields a very similar feel to riding my Trek Madone 5.7 accoustic. But, I usually use Eco mode sporadically (level terrain and downhill) solely for the purpose of increasing the odds of using Sport mode where I want to but, if I have the full range for Sport I won't use Eco at all.
I've only used Turbo mode, which is programmed to use 100% of motor power, rarely and on only the steepest of hills (8-17% so far) though I've found that Sport is quite sufficient in these circumstances also.
When I state that these 3 modes are programmed I mean that I can choose to either accept the default values or program the exact values for each mode as I wish using the Specialized app named "Mission Control". This capability allows an almost unlimited amount of combinations to truly customize the type of response I want from my machine.
This ebike (pedelec is more accurate) is a road and gravel machine and absolutely not a trail bike otherwise and that is my preferred ride so, for me, it's very suitable.

I've found the gearing very good and fine tuned enough not to be even close to bothersome. The only exception is, when going downhill at speeds above 33 mph, the cadence needed starts to feel that I'm undergeared. Not a big issue for me and somewhat compensated by the road feel (I use 38's) and agility of the machine for tight corners at speed. So far, since riding the Creo, no one in my bicycle club can keep with me on tight turning downhills.

The ride feels amazing actually. It doesn't feel like it's an ebike and feels more like I'm in the shape I was years ago. I believe this has a lot to do with the fact that it's 100% assisted and the motor reaction time is super fast while the tuning is designed for the experienced road cyclist (tuned for maximum efficiency at cadences from 70-110 where the motor achieves a 75% efficiency rating, contrasted with the 50% rating for most other ebike motors).

I hope I'm around long enough to see a time when future batteries are lighter and hold a lot more juice. For me, at this time, that is the only improvement I'd want.

On a Creo I would imagine you would get less than an hour of ride time at that tempo nor the gearing to be pedaling effectively.

The Creo is a road bike and not apt to show up on "trails" other than bike paths and lanes. Also anyone that has ridden an eBike uphill knows that it won't magically go 45kmh up any grade, especially a 250w (sic) version. My 1000w peak road bikes bog down and eat wh's like candy if I max it out on a hill climb so I toodle up at around 350w and save the 45k stuff for the down side where the extra weight of the system can get you going as fast as you dare to go.

But you still need a high enough gear to pedal effectively at speed and I just don't see a 46/11 117" gear being enough to do so on level ground. On my road bikes I use a front hub motor and Schlumpf High Speed drives with the equivalent of a 160" gear which allows me human effective human input on level ground at speed. A big issue I have found however is that aerodynamics take effect at speeds over 40kmh and if you are in it for distance any motor assistance used beyond that will shorten your ride considerably if you are crutching not crushing.....

As much as I Iike the torque sensing PAS on my eMTB I don't like PAS on my road bikes. For the consistent higher cadence I achieve on the road I prefer to not have PAS dictating my tempo/speed ratio whole "magic" legs effect. I set my desired watt output and pedal away as normal with no additional tension on the drive train nor worries about shifting under load as that is as normal dictated by common shifting sense while the motor does its thing unabated.

I have a new version underway that also features a(nother) new wheel standard coming available that is very promising in the gravel sector which is my primary interest as I have many miles of logging roads with no traffic and nice views where I live in OR.

View attachment 27964

Awaiting components for the final hookup but even with the hub motor in place this bike rides a treat. 40c @ 30psi all day, steel frame/fork so great small bump compliance and a brifter operated dropper for when things get rad....Although it will weigh in around 40lbs. when the 864wh battery is on board, if my other bikes are any indication, handling is not effected by the extra weight at all.

Not trying to be a buzz kill here but after over 7000 miles of road time I just don't see a 250w restricted type bike in my future. But am glad that those that are investing are getting what they want out of them....

 

[HarveyMiller]

Depending on the model of Creo you refer to, the official weight is from 26 1/2 lbs. to about 29 lbs. (multiply by 2.2 to get the kilogram equivalent), with the battery. For most people that weight is well within the confines of "normal" acoustic weight.

As to comparison, while the electric assist is turned off, and comparing it to my Trek Madone 5.7, the Creo feels more truck than Trek. In Eco mode, however, it has a very similar feel to my Trek. Note, though, I ride 700x23 on the Trek and 700x38 on the Creo and that could account for much of the feel difference.

When up to speed, with the motor in off mode, the Creo feels very much like a "normal" bike.

Worth having a look at this thread as this was discussed at length recently:


Anyone ever taken the battery out of a Creo (or Levo SL for that matter) and run acoustic? I know you’re still carrying the motor but it could still be light enough to feel like a ‘normal’ bike.

 

[Fivetones]

Thanks. I can imagine in the road context the 4kg penalty for the motor (2kg) + internal battery (2kg) is pretty significant like you say. You could run it with just a range extender and no internal to save a kilo.

I was on my turbo trainer this morning as I’m well and truly locked in here so the battery-less bike idea was very much an idle thought.

 

[tvandall]

Note that the US version which is what I got has a Assisted speed to 28 miles an hour which is 45 km per hour.

If we have to have a limit that is much more reasonable. What is the experience like when you peddle past that? Is it like hitting the wall on the Levo's or is it more subtle? What is your cadence at 45 kph?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Depending on the model of Creo you refer to, the official weight is from 26 1/2 lbs. to about 29 lbs. (multiply by 2.2 to get the kilogram equivalent),

Just a minor correction before anyone scares themselves and wonders why the Creo weighs 63.8 kg's ....

I think you mean divide by 2.2 , so starting at 12kg's

 

[tvandall]

Depending on the model of Creo you refer to, the official weight is from 26 1/2 lbs. to about 29 lbs. (multiply by 2.2 to get the kilogram equivalent), with the battery. For most people that weight is well within the confines of "normal" acoustic weight.

As to comparison, while the electric assist is turned off, and comparing it to my Trek Madone 5.7, the Creo feels more truck than Trek. In Eco mode, however, it has a very similar feel to my Trek. Note, though, I ride 700x23 on the Trek and 700x38 on the Creo and that could account for much of the feel difference.

When up to speed, with the motor in off mode, the Creo feels very much like a "normal" bike.

Harvey thanks for sharing all the kool Creo details sounds impressive to me. For all of us I think improved battery charge density is coming soon that will be huge. Thank you Mr. Musk and others.

Mabman love your innovation efforts sounds like you are having a blast! Not just the riding but the journey to get there.

Fivetones Amen to the use of limits to get ebikes accepted as bikes without all the motorized vehicle baggage. Is it cultural that there is a spread from 25k to 45k in different parts of the world? Thankfully there is a 45 km benchmark operating without killing everyone. lol I'll check out the link thanks

Now I have to get myself a Creo test ride but I'm worried it is going to be expensive.
Have a great day

 

[Thomas]

 

[HarveyMiller]

Oops. Yes. divide by 2.2.

Just a minor correction before anyone scares themselves and wonders why the Creo weighs 63.8 kg's ....

I think you mean divide by 2.2 , so starting at 12kg's

 

[HarveyMiller]

Subtle and around 100 rpm.

If we have to have a limit that is much more reasonable. What is the experience like when you peddle past that? Is it like hitting the wall on the Levo's or is it more subtle? What is your cadence at 45 kph?

 

[tvandall]

Subtle and around 100 rpm.

thanks thats in a good range for me ?

 

[ofcounsel]

I just picked up a Creo SL Carbon Comp EVO to compliment my 2019 Levo Expert. Took it for a ride for the first time this morning. I was surprised how smooth and seamless the power is. Clearly, the Creo motor not as potent as the Levo motor, but I knew that already. I really enjoyed the ride. Given the hilly nature of where I ride, my first modification will be to swap out the HG freehub for an XD hub. Thereafter, I'm going to put on an e*thirteen 9-46T cassette. On my ride today, I also found the dropper to be of limited value for my purposes. So I'm going to swap out the dropper for a standard carbon seatpost.

 

[levity]

I just picked up a Creo SL Carbon Comp EVO...

Sweeting looking bike! ?

How was it on Faultline? Did you try climbing back up it with that gearing?
What about Bovinian? I bet the Creo would be fun there.
For me the dropper post would be advantageous on these, well worth it’s weight.