Would you buy a bike that can't be derestricted ?

[TommyC]

I’ve got the bosch smart system. Tried a speed box on it. It didn’t like it so I took it off. It does bother me that it’s restricted but the reality is it doesn’t often actually matter. If I did want to derestrict it again I’d also lose most functions of the smart system.

All depends what you want to use it for. I put a bbshd on a hard tail because I wanted something faster. It’ll do 35mph but it turns out I’ve got absolutely no practical use for it!

 

[flash]

I so wish this was the case on my 2023 Giant Trance X Advanced E+ 1.

I live in Australia, with the 25Km/h limit, and I can freewheel way over that. But as soon as I start pedalling over that speed, the bike will pull my speed back to 25Km/h no matter how much effort I put into the drivetrain. It's like the brakes are being applied at the least appropriate time.

25Km/h is it for me.

It's no wonder many derestrict their bikes.

Really? My eGravel bike (fazua) and eMTB’s are pretty easy to pedal over the limit up to around 35-40kmh, AS LONG AS, I have fast rolling tyres on them. On the trails on my Levo I’m closer to about 32kmh on flat ground before my sad pathetic legs can spin no more.

Gordon

 

[Nomad1]

That's weird have you verified that with a actual speedometer. I think your hitting the wall and not getting over it and yes that's a pain in the butt. It's 20 mph here in US and yes it's a pain when you hit that but you can get above that. Remember help so it is like someone when you it that line your loosing all that power(assistants) so it is like someone put the brakes on and the motor doesn't just decouple instantly. That being said the lower limits in some countries would annoy me to say the least. Personally I think it should be 28mph max when it stops assisting and transition almost seamlessly. After that it should be a different class of vehicle realistically and have some requirement like a mophead in all fairness.

 

[Nomad1]

Really? My eGravel bike (fazua) and eMTB’s are pretty easy to pedal over the limit up to around 35-40kmh, AS LONG AS, I have fast rolling tyres on them. On the trails on my Levo I’m closer to about 32kmh on flat ground before my sad pathetic legs can spin no more.

Gordon

I have to say I use my 10 tooth mostly down hill and on some flats for that reason.

 

[juggernaut]

i wouldn’t.

Both of my e-bikes were derestricted by prior to purchasing by the manufacturer/dealer.

25 klm/hr is far too slow, but I can understand those less experienced riders need to be speed limited.

Use some common sense when riding and don’t attract attention to yourself (just like when driving) and the police don't enforce the letter of the law…….. at least in my neck of the woods.

 

[maynard]

I do admit, 25 mph would suck.

Try kms per hour . So even slower. No thanks.

 

[maynard]

In Oz, you’d be riding an illegal bike. If something happened and you hurt someone, that would count against you and you could end up in jail. Not to mention that we’re allowed to ride our bike everywhere any pedal bike is. Illegal bikes could change that. They already cause enough agro with the throttle bikes racing around the cities, often on footpaths, delivering food. We have essentially no haters here on the trails. Bikes are bikes. But if we get bikes doing stupid moto like speeds we could end up like the US. No thanks.

Would I like my bike to be 32kmh? Absolutely. But I’m not breaking the law just because I feel I’m entitled. Some rules I don’t like. Some I do. I don’t pick and choose which ones I obey.

Gordon

Motorcycle speeds . Umm not really mate . Maybe the slowest Motorcycle in the world
. So much drag and not enough power . Road bikes go faster than an emtb .

 

[KenX]

If it was the bike I really wanted, then I'd go for it, never crossed my mind when I bought my Decoy, got Stunlocker for the US speed limiter and it's nice, but wouldn't sway me if I bought a Bosch bike.
That said, I live in the bottom of a valley so most of my riding is 10-15kmh uphill

 

[Lonski]

I think the aim problem in Australia is that eMTB's are thought of as being the same as E-scooters. And anyone in Australia knows how reckless those are when they mingle with pedestrians.

 

[adam89pl]

I'd never buy ebike that can't be derestricted. On fast trails with flat sections you need to pedal a lot and usualy I go >30 km/h. Pedaling above 25 without motor with heavy downhill tires feels like towing another bike. I don't like be slower than when riding an analogue bike on downhills. I derestricted my Canyon Spectral On after a few rides.

Regarding law: If you use your bike to mtb so it shouldn't be problem. Police won't chase you somwhere in forests/mountains. If in your country you have crazy penalties you can turn chip off during riding public roads.

Regarding guarantee: It's only 2 years of guarantee so not a big loss. You just have to accept that if the motor breaks down you will have to buy a new one. I use a chip (it does not change the engine soft/setup) so I think maybe the warranty would work.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Be interesting to see how many riders living in Euro land given a derestricted bike for a couple of weeks would happily go back to their restricted bike. Incidentally I think the 32kph is about the right cut off where on the flats your mates on their analogues don't leave you in their dust and uphill you get all the benefits of why you bought an Ebike.

My one hate though is the greater than 750W's motors, why do you need that amount of power, just by an EMotobike ?

 

[jjglass535]

why not just buy a motorbike and be done with it?

Derestricted and having a throttle are two different things

 

[macp]

This speed limit discussion is so stupide!!!
because:
- I can pedal my road bike at 45KM/h on flat road. this is LEGAL!
- I can take a road bike down a pass at 60km/h.This is LEGAL!
- I can drive down hill single track with My restricted EMTB at 60KM/h. This is Legal!
- But I can't drive a EMTB derestricted downhill above 25Km/h to get this little help on some flatter area!!! This is not Legal!


That is why I only follow rule that make at least a tiny bit of sense. Sorry I'm not brain washed main stream guy. I still know how to use that thing in between my ears.
I'm ready to assume all the consequence's. I'm not a pet I have a brain and try to use it.
I will never ever follow stupid rule.

This, all day this. Go chase those idiots on electric motorbikes. Because that is what they actually are. And leave the people with some common sense alone. I mean here in the UK tinted motorcycle helmet visors are banned to prevent accidents. Probably another EU ruling. But anyway what did bikers do. Well they wore sunglasses instead. It’s all such damn nonsense. And you know what I rode two restricted bikes on holiday. And they actually felt fast enough. But for me it’s the fact that it’s ok for the same bike to have either no restriction. Or a higher speed limit elsewhere in the world but not in the UK/Europe. And yet you can get blown away by some tight Lycra wearing individual on an analogue bike. And they can cause just as much injury to a member of the public as an ebike.

So no I would not buy a bike that could not be derestricted. And this nonsense that it will damage the motor is exactly that. None sense. I work in the electric motor industry. So I have some understanding of motor performance. But I would be interested to see proof of damage caused by fitting a recognised derestriction device.

 

[Matt van]

I am in Australia too and the 25kph limit is perfect for my trails on a hardtail but I find at times on foot paths I might need more but I'm not too worried about it personally

 

[Growmac]

And leave the people with some common sense alone.

That's the problem, rules are not generally needed for those with common sense.

I mean here in the UK tinted motorcycle helmet visors are banned to prevent accidents. Probably another EU ruling. But anyway what did bikers do. Well they wore sunglasses instead. It’s all such damn nonsense.

You're being wilfully obtuse here. Sunglasses are worn when it's bright. If it gets dark you don't get bikers thinking "well I don't want to get bugs in my eyes, I'll leave the sunglasses on even though I can't see". They take the sunglasses off and use the clear visor. It's a sensible law.

And you know what I rode two restricted bikes on holiday. And they actually felt fast enough. But for me it’s the fact that it’s ok for the same bike to have either no restriction. Or a higher speed limit elsewhere in the world but not in the UK/Europe. And yet you can get blown away by some tight Lycra wearing individual on an analogue bike. And they can cause just as much injury to a member of the public as an ebike.

You can get unrestricted bikes here too. Totally legal, but they come with rules. You have to be licensed (only a CBT, but still). You need to be insured, they need lights, they need to be safe. That's all proportionate rules given the increased dangers to others (and to a lesser extent to the rider). Restricted e-bikes are treated identically to bicycles because they don't introduce much additional risk. This is a fantastic thing. A fit cyclist can easily go over the limit, but you'd hope that they'd also have more of an idea what they are doing.

Should the limit be 20 not 15.5? Maybe, but I suspect 15.5 is quite good for the casual cyclist's safety, and us 'expert' cyclists can make our own personal judgements about whether to circumvent that limit.

So no I would not buy a bike that could not be derestricted. And this nonsense that it will damage the motor is exactly that. None sense. I work in the electric motor industry. So I have some understanding of motor performance. But I would be interested to see proof of damage caused by fitting a recognised derestriction device.

I would imagine heat would be the likely culprit, but given that identical motors are sold in 20 mph markets, seems unlikely to me.

 

[jackamo]

No, as I didn't find a need for it (yet). I have a light-eMTB with a 360Wh TQ motor, which doesn't 'brake' when passing 25km/h.
However, being curious: can that TQ be derestricted?

Try Two Wheeled Empire , they will be able to tell you.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

Hi... also Australian. I have done 1100kms so far on my Rail 5 and all of it on the road as I have back problems that mean rear suspension and a forward leaning pedalling position is a must for me exercising.
For quick trips of over 20 kilometres it would be handy to have motor assistance up to 40km/h. Common sense tells you that this would be on the road... Not a sidewalk or shared walk/bike path.
We have been dictated to about these speed restrictions by a beaurocracy run (likely) by car-drivers who haven't ridden a bike in a long time, but are likely happy to make laws that restrict bike riders they in no way represent.
Those trying to push the lethality aspect of the argument supporting ebike speed restriction... are you people for real? You drive two tons of car around at more than double the speed and you call bicycles the dangerous thing?
I feel like you have not just taken leave of your senses but have also taken leave of the laws of physics.
I regularly get my Rail up to 40km/h down hills and it is rock solid at that speed. I also ride a 1200cc motorcycle which is reasonably fast... I don't see anyone attempting to limit its speed even though it weighs in excess of 10 times the weight of the Rail. I bet that would make a real mess of a pedestrian at 50-60km/h but I don't ride that on sidewalks and shared walk/bike paths either.
We all know who is behind this restriction lunacy. They say things like "bike riders should not have the same rights on the road as a car because they aren't paying registration/road-tax etc."
Of course if these deep thinkers stopped for a second they'd realise that a very high percentage of the cyclists they are talking about have a car/motorcycle with current registration sitting in the garage at home... not on the road because of an interest in his/her fitness instead.
You'll never replace inefficient vehicles on the road while hamstringing the competition.... Speed Restriction is just such an act.
Don't even get me started on children without helmets or even footwear riding electric scooters past me like I'm standing still (at my 26km/h restricted speed).
Hilarious double standards right there.

 

[michael_bc]

Would you buy a bike that can't be derestricted ? I would not.

I think this question is only relevant if you mountain bike where there are no mountains.

Uphill is fast enough at 25 km/h. Restriction doesn't matter on the downhill.

 

[namastebuzz]

I built an E-MTB during lockdown. An On One Codeine 29er FS with a Tongsheng TSDZ2 750w motor, no speed restrictor and a throttle.

I use it mostly off-road with the very occasional commute or shopping trip (with a trailer).

In addition, I acquired a Haibike XDuro Nduro RX 180mm travel bike with a Bosch CX motor.

The On One is great on the road because I can do 30mph and keep up with the traffic.

It's great off-road too because it doesn't cut out at 15.5mph like the Haibike does - just as you're pedalling into some feature that you want to attack with a bit more speed.

Power wise - they're actually about the same. Climbing side by side the Bosch seems slightly more powerful no matter what the wattage ratings say.

 

[namastebuzz]

I think this question is only relevant if you mountain bike where there are no mountains.

Uphill is fast enough at 25 km/h. Restriction doesn't matter on the downhill.

But restriction DOES matter on the downhill. That's the whole point.

You're pedalling down a flowy descent then you hit 15.5mph and the motor cuts out leaving you mashing the pedals on what feels like an oil tanker until the speed drops and the motor cuts in again. Then you pick up speed until....the same thing happens again. And again.

Some features you'd want extra speed to hit on a normal bike you simply can't do easily on a restricted E-Bike or you can't even do at all.

 

[michael_bc]

But restriction DOES matter on the downhill. That's the whole point.

You're pedalling down a flowy descent then you hit 15.5mph and the motor cuts out leaving you mashing the pedals on what feels like an oil tanker until the speed drops and the motor cuts in again. Then you pick up speed until....the same thing happens again. And again.

Some features you'd want extra speed to hit on a normal bike you simply can't do easily on a restricted E-Bike or you can't even do at all.

I must say that I've never experienced this.

Where I ride downhill I'm quickly at 40-50 km/h as soon as I let go of the brakes. I've never really considered pedaling downhill to be honest.

 

[namastebuzz]

I must say that I've never experienced this.

Where I ride downhill I'm quickly at 40-50 km/h as soon as I let go of the brakes. I've never really considered pedaling downhill to be honest.

Yeah, of course if you're going really fast then pedalling doesn't come into it.

It's the flowing bike park type trails that aren't that steep where you get the problems especially when you want a bit more speed at certain points.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

With ebike speed limiting:
Follow the money...
Entrenched monopolies in the business world don't like new technologies that threaten to reduce their bottom line. This includes fuel taxes to which various governments have become addicted.
Any disruptive technology that threatens to reduce car driving will attract their wrath.
Their answer: restrict the speed to 26km/h & make it move under power only if pedalled. (Australian rules)
Suddenly using the ebike to commute to work is not viable in hotter climates as you'll be head to foot sweat.
Using the bike to travel distances over 10 kms isn't quick enough to replace the need for a car.
They have effectively artificially hamstrung ebikes so they can't compete. Just the way they want it.
Am I missing anything in my analysis?