Would I notice the difference ??

[stiv674]

Have you got the new Tour+ mode? Its very similar (probably identical) power curve to the 'Magic Tour" mode below. I find it natural but also has full power on tap when you pedal hard.

View attachment 78858

Apparently it has the latest firmware...

I still don't consider it that natural though, I get that it works in relation to your own effort but it still seems to over assist to me, maybe it's just the extra power over the E8000 I'm not used to...

Riding it back to back with my mates Brose 1.3 which has similar power it's still far keener, we both agreed on that.

 

[The Hodge]

t was only in boost that it would surge, the Bosch does it in all modes.

No ..it doesn't..
There is a slight surge in emtb mode to assist over obstacles when climbing ..and that is all ..
The reason for that is if you come to a section on a climb where it would help to have the pedals in a stationary position ..the extra boost ( approx 1x crank turn ) helps to clear the obstacle ..quite useful once you learn to use it to your advantage

 

[stiv674]

No ..it doesn't..
There is a slight surge in emtb mode to assist over obstacles when climbing ..and that is all ..

I disagree

 

[The Hodge]

I disagree

Then you are wrong..

 

[stiv674]

Then you are wrong..

Haha, I'm not going to argue with you, we have a different opinion that's all.

 

[Doomanic]

Except one of you is wrong...

 

[The Hodge]

I'm going to have to back out of this ..just lumbering up with beer & whiskey ( yeah ..Irish) ..to numb the pain of another heavy defeat ( Toon v Mancs)

 

[Kernow]

Cheers
EMTB Lite is different again! It doesn’t peak as high as Turbo / EMTB or Tour+ and maxxes out at 240% assistance. The former modes peak at 340%.

And to further confuse things, on the latest 2022 Treks, they no longer use EMTB lite and have the new Tour+ instead!

Would be great if Bosch supplied updated graphs with them all on!

For what it’s worth, on the new Bosch Smart, the Eco and Turbo modes can further be customised by the rider.

I feel better to know that It’s what I seem to remember Here I was thinking I must too old to pedal hard enough to get that peak shown on the graph
so i guess it has advantages , but not as good for battery life as before so which version do you prefer presuming you’ve tried both Rob ?

 

[Peaky Rider]

So, as someone who doesn't like normal EMTB mode making all the decisions, EMTB Lite, which lets me decide when I need turbo, sounds as though it might more to my liking.

Looks like another trip to the dealer, unless someone is going to tell me you can change this yourself.

 

[Mteam]

So, as someone who doesn't like normal EMTB mode making all the decisions, EMTB Lite, which lets me decide when I need turbo, sounds as though it might more to my liking.

Looks like another trip to the dealer, unless someone is going to tell me you can change this yourself.

You need the dealer to enable emtb lite mode

 

[Peaky Rider]

You need the dealer to enable emtb lite mode

Thanks Mteam, trip to the dealer it is then, hopefully free of charge as I only bought the bike off them last November.

 

[steve_sordy]

This is actually nonsense though. . (SSnote: referring to my statement that the EP8 has lower internal friction than the e8000).
When released Shimano said the EP8 had less internal friction than their older motors. But friction in the older E7/8000 motors was already discernable and the reduction in friction they claim is not noticeable in the slightest while riding.
...................
.................

I 100% agree that I cannot tell when riding that there is less internal friction EP8 vs e8000. I doubt anyone could because the motor fills in the gap. I suspect that I'd need a power meter or something. From that viewpoint you are right to say it is nonsense, because who could tell when riding?

However, I took Shimano at their word that the EP8 had less internal friction. These days a company has to be able to support its claims with evidence. I am not going to ask to see the evidence because their statement was supported by the fact that the range from the battery has 40% more per Whr than I got from the e8000. Some of that could have been down to the different battery of course and some from the optimistic marketing guys stretching the facts. But it is still a lot. It seemed to fit.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

However, I took Shimano at their word that the EP8 had less internal friction. These days a company has to be able to support its claims with evidence. I am not going to ask to see the evidence because their statement was supported by the fact that the range from the battery has 40% more per Whr than I got from the e8000. Some of that could have been down to the different battery of course and some from the optimistic marketing guys stretching the facts. But it is still a lot. It seemed to fit.

and there lies the problem with all the bullshit around marketing and opinions
Best way to find out is try anything yourself and be happy before you purchase

 

[lightning]

l thought when referring to "internal friction" they meant the resistance on the cranks when pedalling without motor assistance

My Bosch gen 2 was really bad in that respect, but that was back in 2016. Compared to that, my E8000 has very little resistance but there is some.

 

[steve_sordy]

and there lies the problem with all the bullshit around marketing and opinions
Best way to find out is try anything yourself and be happy before you purchase

Marketing people do seem to get a bad press, but they have to obey the law like everyone else. I am far from a fan of marketing as a discipline but the people I have worked with from time to time who are marketing experts would not lie as such. However, they may not "tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth" if that would hurt their cause. (A bit like the rest of us when it comes to selling a used bike?) To take a recent example that was on this Forum. I would expect a torque wrench to work in both directions, especially when it has that little switch to change from CW to ACW. But then I see in very tiny print on the handle "one direction only". That important fact forms no part of the technical description, but then neither does a claim that it would work in both directions. They have not lied, but it is shoddy practice.

My last emtb was bought after several circuits around a red trail with the opportunity to reposition the stem spacers, levers, saddle height, saddle fore/aft, suspension set up, tyre pressures. After all, I was making a buying decision! But who gets to try a bike these days? The best I managed with my current bike was a few circuits of the car park!

 

[geehaw]

People get so hung up on motors. Will you notice the difference? Yes if you ride them back to back. Does it matter? Not really as you will adjust your riding to make it work. Range is questionable if you ride both motors with the exact same settings. Bosch is slightly better. Reliability given what one reads on the forums is about the same.
MORE IMPORTANT is frame geometry, and does it suit you body shape and your riding style. A Trek could have am Unobtaimium motor that gets 2000km range with 1000nm of torque but I could never buy one as the Trek frames are just not suitable for me. Look at the total package rather than just a motor choice.

 

[Mr mick]

Shimano. Fishing reels and derailleurs. Bosch. Wiper blades and cordless drills. Yamaha. Race winning motorcycles and ridiculously fast PWCs.

 

[wildsau2]

How can the Bosch feel natural when even the Eco mode has way too much power? i prefer shimano because i can tweak it to every simulation i want. for example in winter i ride eco 18%, trail 20%. In summer i ride eco 12%, trail 14%.

 

[lightning]

Surely you'd be better off with a good regular MTB if you are only using 10-15% of the ebike's available power

All you are doing at that level is compensating for the extra weight of the bike!

 

[pmcdonald]

I angsted a lot about motor choice. And as @steve_sordy pointed out above a real world test ride was out of the question from all dealers in consideration.

In the end I opted for the EP8 because the bike it was bolted onto seemed a bit more playful out of the box. Zero complaints (providing it proves reliable in the long run), but I'm sure a Bosch on similar geometry would have done me equally fine.

My daily commuter is equipped with a Yamaha motor that pulls like an ox and has enough overrun to almost monster up half a flight of steps, zero natural feel in other words. It's great too and I love it in its own way. I'd love to see some gains in dealer or regional serviceability, but otherwise I think the current generation of motors deliver the goods.

 

[LeftItLancs]

Overrun is not bad or good, you need to learn to handle it, but isn’t natural at all.

I enjoy the surge, not being very fit there is a 'sweet spot' in the lower gears that helps a lot when the wind is against you etc on long grindier rides, the 'sweet spot' gives me time to have a breather and motivates me to go further than I would have. I don't get the natural comments because, for me, that's why I bought an electric bike to get that assistance.

 

[lightning]

My E8000 has a bit of over run when you stop pedalling, l am fine with it but it does make it almost impossible not to shift gear under power.

However it doesn't seem to adversely affect the drive train, l am currently on 1500 miles with my latest chain and new cassette, and it's still okay.

 

[1oldfart]

They are all different. I love my Yamaha/Giant it offers 5 levels to choose more range or more assist.
There is also an auto that i never use. It is instant from start and stops as soon as we stop pedaling.
It is reliable and for me it is important.