Will the torque/power of the Bosch Gen 5 increase this year with a software update?

[zizajaun]

I heard a bike industry guy predict that they would bump it up to 100+ Nm this year to compete with the DJI Avinox. I don't know if he was just speculating or he had insider knowledge. (He sold bikes with Bosch so it's also possible he was intentionally spreading misinformation.) This is important for me as I'm looking for an emtb and I don't know how much advantage there is to getting a DJI-equipped bike vs Bosch Gen 5.

 

[Bear-uk]

I heard a bike industry guy predict that they would bump it up to 100+ Nm this year to compete with the DJI Avinox. I don't know if he was just speculating or he had insider knowledge. (He sold bikes with Bosch so it's also possible he was intentionally spreading misinformation.) This is important for me as I'm looking for an emtb and I don't know how much advantage there is to getting a DJI-equipped bike vs Bosch Gen 5.

Also looking at the same bikes. I don't think the Bosch really needs any more power as the Gen 4 climbs very well if you get the pedals spinning.
I looked through about 50 DJI pages yesterday and slowly went off the avinox bike.
For me I want something with range and the DJI is sacrifing range for a gimmick power boost from a frame that's bearly strong enough to last a couple of years IMO.
Your needs might be different to mine.
Also waiting to see what's new at Sea otter next month when the manufacturers display their new goods

 

[OZ-E]

Yes, it's coming. I believe only for the Gen 5 though

 

[zizajaun]

Also looking at the same bikes. I don't think the Bosch really needs any more power as the Gen 4 climbs very well if you get the pedals spinning.
I looked through about 50 DJI pages yesterday and slowly went off the avinox bike.
For me I want something with range and the DJI is sacrifing range for a gimmick power boost from a frame that's bearly strong enough to last a couple of years IMO.
Your needs might be different to mine.
Also waiting to see what's new at Sea otter next month when the manufacturers display their new goods

Not sure what bikes you're looking at, but I'm considering the Whyte Elyte Evo and Santa Cruz Vala as well as the Amflow.

Now seems a bad time to buy an ebike, with so many new models about to be released, e.g. the Forbidden eDruid might be the best option (I'm after a sort of 'trailduro' as my only bike) but I gather it won't be shipped till after the summer. Levo SL Gen 4 might be announced around that time as well. Unno is the other brand using the Avinox. All of those are likely to be super expensive though. Amflow just announced that a new Chinese brand will also use the DJI system, presumably at a less obscene price, but the specs are similar to the Amflow (160/150).

Not sure how long to wait. I'm recovering from a broken femur so I want some pedal assist ASAP. I might get a CYC Photon to put on my hardtail until the options are clearer later in the year, but that's not cheap either - is it worth spending £1300 and several months on a hardtail to have a broader range of options later on?

All reviews I've seen of the Amflow are positive. The Boost mode seems a bit gimmicky but otherwise the motor and frame are supposed to be pretty good. Maybe not as good as the Vala or Whyte though, and with Bosch upping the power, I'm not sure there's any reason to prefer the Amflow.

 

[zizajaun]

I don't think the Bosch really needs any more power as the Gen 4 climbs very well if you get the pedals spinning.

I've never had an ebike so don't really know how much power I need, or how big a battery. But I'm 100kg and do a mix of long mountain days, short blasts around the woods, and black diamond bike park laps. For the first two, I'm not in a huge rush on climbs, so maybe 400 W is plenty. In parks, I want to get to the top ASAP and with as little effort as possible, mostly on fire roads, so 600-800 W might be useful.

 

[zizajaun]

For me I want something with range and the DJI is sacrifing range for a gimmick power boost

You don't have to use the power boost. The range doesn't seem bad on the lower settings, though I think one mag did some tests that still put Bosch at the top when the Amflow was set to Trail mode.

 

[gio_se]

Yes, it's coming. I believe only for the Gen 5 though

Source?

 

[Bear-uk]

I've never had an ebike so don't really know how much power I need, or how big a battery. But I'm 100kg and do a mix of long mountain days, short blasts around the woods, and black diamond bike park laps. For the first two, I'm not in a huge rush on climbs, so maybe 400 W is plenty. In parks, I want to get to the top ASAP and with as little effort as possible, mostly on fire roads, so 600-800 W might be useful.

My Bosch Gen 4 bike is more Enduro based and on very hilly and boggy moorland type rides I can use the 625 battery in under 25 miles.
That's why I was looking at the amflow bike as a more trail type bike.
But for me if I have all that power then there's no way I'm going to be taking it easy

 

[Biano44]

If Bosch do update the Gen5 motor to approx 100nm, it will use more juice and drain the battery quicker; so a 600w/h battery in the Vala seems like an odd decision.
Yes.....I know there is a range extender (at extra cost) but as someone who has just spent the last 4 years lugging an extra battery about while riding his Heckler, let me tell you......it's no fun.

 

[zizajaun]

If Bosch do update the Gen5 motor to approx 100nm, it will use more juice and drain the battery quicker; so a 600w/h battery in the Vala seems like an odd decision.
Yes.....I know there is a range extender (at extra cost) but as someone who has just spent the last 4 years lugging an extra battery about while riding his Heckler, let me tell you......it's no fun.

600 Wh was chosen for weight reasons, or rather weight distribution. It would make more sense for the battery to be clustered around the motor, but long rods are presumably more versatile when building bikes, and look better.

 

[Biano44]

600 Wh was chosen for weight reasons, or rather weight distribution. It would make more sense for the battery to be clustered around the motor, but long rods are presumably more versatile when building bikes, and look better.

I know why they say they made that decision and it makes sense for an SL style bike, not a full power bike.

Unless......when the design was finalised, there was no mention of a power upgrade.......
And that the power upgrade has come about to the 'market' changing.

But if the motor was never designed for 100nm, would this affect reliability I wonder?

What I would say is at the current power levels, if you weigh 70ish kg, 85nm and a 600w/h battery would be absolutely bang on.

Sadly, I'm quite a bit heavier.

 

[Paul F]

I heard a bike industry guy predict that they would bump it up to 100+ Nm this year to compete with the DJI Avinox. I don't know if he was just speculating or he had insider knowledge. (He sold bikes with Bosch so it's also possible he was intentionally spreading misinformation.) This is important for me as I'm looking for an emtb and I don't know how much advantage there is to getting a DJI-equipped bike vs Bosch Gen 5.

It would be great if Bosch ups the power. If the bikes the Bosch motor is fitted to have 800Wh battery plus a range extender option, I will be buying one is due course. Otherwise, I am tempted to buy an Amflow, the more power the better and it's 800wh battery is enough to do 30 miles with a 4000ft ascent, without keeping in Eco and Tour modes. Although I will wait until it can be delimited.

 

[Biano44]

It would be great if Bosch ups the power. If the bikes the Bosch motor is fitted to have 800Wh battery plus a range extender option, I will be buying one is due course. Otherwise, I am tempted to buy an Amflow, the more power the better and it's 800wh battery is enough to do 30 miles with a 4000ft ascent, without keeping in Eco and Tour modes. Although I will wait until it can be delimited.

I've had an Amflow since November and raising the limiter to 28mph has always been an option.

 

[mrtrinh]

I heard a bike industry guy predict that they would bump it up to 100+ Nm this year to compete with the DJI Avinox. I don't know if he was just speculating or he had insider knowledge. (He sold bikes with Bosch so it's also possible he was intentionally spreading misinformation.) This is important for me as I'm looking for an emtb and I don't know how much advantage there is to getting a DJI-equipped bike vs Bosch Gen 5.

Almost certain its coming. A lot of Gen 5 suppliers are saying the same thing. Regardless if the extra power is needed or not, Bosch needs to show they are capable and can compete against DJI. A lot of people are impressed by DJI and want the latest and greatest. I'm new to emtb and just purchased a crestline and I can't imagine ever needing more power. 80% of the time I'm on eco.

 

[highpeakrider]

I’m not sure why you would need this power ive tuned down my gen 5 in emtb to reign in the power for hill climbing.

 

[irie]

I’m not sure why you would need this power ive tuned down my gen 5 in emtb to reign in the power for hill climbing.

We have non-Smart Gen 4 Bosch and we rarely use Turbo, and even then only occasionally for silly steep hill climbing. For 'normal' MTB riding it's just stupid fast. If you need a fast eBike buy one and keep off the trails and stay on the roads where they belong.

 

[Mikerb]

The Bosch Gen4 was originally75nm then upped to 85 via a software update once Bosch were satisfied the Gen 4 was reliable. The main issue with increasing the power output is heat management, otherwise it is merely a matter of software ( to the mechanical limit of the electric motor). My wife has a Cube hardtail which I have never bothered to update from 75nm to 85nm......and it goes like a rocket!! I think there is general misunderstanding of motor power output. A higher max is of little consequence if in practice the motor only delivers that at the very top of the rider input/cadence range. A motor with more instant response and a general feeling of more power is one that delivers higher watts at lower cadences and rider torque input. Yes a higher maximum output makes that easier to achieve with software but that software still needs to ensure the power delivery is smooth and progressive in response to rider torque and cadence in order to be natural and controllable. It also needs to deliver good battery range. Bosch have now increased the main battery option from 750 watts to 800 watts and the new battery is supposedly a little more efficient. That also suggests the likely scope for power increase of the motor in the future whilst maintaining existing range of Gen4/750 w/h set up.

I suspect Bosch will increase the maximum torque but they will not consider the Amflow as any sort of benchmark so will probably go to 90nm...maybe 95.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

Someone posted on an Italian forum that the power will be updated to 750w output and 105 Nm. Didn't add a source (but who would) but one thing it's clear, just from a marketing perspective alone it's clear in the near future it will increase current numbers. Can't remember who mentioned another fact, but gen 5 is already capable for more but kept the values equal to gen 4 so sellers could still sell the massive stock of Gen 4 bikes.