Will a 180rs make for a good all rounder ?

[Motohawk75]

Hi
I’ve been leaving posts all over the show recently so I do apologise!
recently parted with my short term ride Nukeproof Megawatt Elite, lovely rig but really didn’t enjoy the Ep8, on climbs and trails where I wanted the motor in comparison to my pals Bosh and Yam motors it was gutless and to be honest I bought an Ebike because I want the motor and want it to be noticeable and not like an analogue bike.
I’ve been using a Trek rail 9 but I want something that’s not quite as cramped in a large.
ive Been looking at the 150rs as I do like the 29’r wheel (I’m 6’1 just 185cm)
I have to pals with 160’rs’s but I really like the top spec sus on the 180rs ‍?
Will this make a good all round trail bike or is it just over kill ?
I want to be able to throw it about and play on jumps and drops as well as tight single track and natural cross country forest trails (I live in the new forest down south U.K.)
Will also venture out to the bike parks when time allows ….

appreciate any input ?

 

[Mikerb]

The Whyte E180 RS is a fantastic bike but I would not call it an allrounder bike. If what you like is fast gravity singletrack and gnarly descents then the E180RS is the bike for you but if you are into long adventure rides you may find the E180 RS a bit harder work than an all round trail bike. I have a Levo Comp and the E180RS. For longish rides on mixed terrain with quite a bit of climbing but nothing really challenging or gnarly I would use the Levo every time. If the ride is all a bout gravity runs and/or really gnarly terrain then use the E180. In essence the E180RS is more enduro and the Levo is more trail.

 

[Motohawk75]

Dam ! I’ve seen a fair few chaps riding these in quite general conditions which made me think perhaps it’s a snazzy alternative to the common e160rs …. It’s the factory Fox kit that drags me in. I found the 170 travel of the Nukeproof to actually be very good as an all rounder just let down by that ep8 motor

 

[Zimmerframe]

I've not ridden the Whyte's but all of them seem well liked.

I've run a Kenevo for the last two years and when I bought that I joked that in the future it wouldn't be seen as some long travel aggressive geometry beasty, it would be seen as a normal runabout .. Recently I've been using it a lot as my ploddy trail bike instead of the shorter travel focus Jam2 - which seems contrary to logic, but it stops it gathering dust and strangely, despite being an "L" and the Jam an "M" it feels like a little BMX in comparison. It's also "only" 24kg's , where as the Jam's 25.5 and you notice this more at slower speeds if you're just bumbling about. The Motor on the Whyte is angled with the battery in front, so the COG is lower which really helps how the Whyte's feel on the trail.

With an e-bike the longer travel is generally less of an issue than with a normal bike. The motor overcomes the weight penalties and extra movement you might get in the suspension when pedalling. For me, the main problem I had with the Kenevo with using it for trails and searching for "poppy" ie, easy to bounce over things, round things, keep the nose up over things more - is that you tend to set things up based on using all the 180 suspension - so you travel through more suspension early on than you would with a shorter travel bike - which is great when hitting things, but crap for "poppy" as it soaks it all up rather than the bike reacting to your inputs. To get around that, you just have to setup the suspension slightly firmer, as if you had only 150/160 - so it performs similarly - but then you have extra travel if you need it for big hits.

 

[The Hodge]

Dam ! I’ve seen a fair few chaps riding these in quite general conditions which made me think perhaps it’s a snazzy alternative to the common e160rs …. It’s the factory Fox kit that drags me in. I found the 170 travel of the Nukeproof to actually be very good as an all rounder just let down by that ep8 motor

As an e160rs owner ..who the hell are you calling common ..???..


Even if I am..??

 

[Motohawk75]

As an e160rs owner ..who the hell are you calling common ..???..


Even if I am..??

Haha I should rephrase that i meant “popular” ??

 

[steve_sordy]

@Motohawk75 In your OP you said that you found the EP8 "gutless" in comparison to the Bosch and Yamaha. I met a guy a few weeks ago with his new emtb and he said that he was disappointed with the EP8 on his first emtb. I had very recently bought my bike with its EP8 and I'd had to tone it down!! (Think Grand Prix traffic light starts and wheel-spinning everywhere).

I asked him if he had used the E-TUBE Project app to adjust the motor settings. He said that he hadn't. So right in front of him in about 3 minutes from start to finish, I altered the settings for him. He was on Profile 2, which was at low settings, even max torque. Profile 1 was a bit better in that at least his max torque was at 85Nm, but his Assistance Character was at 4 (I moved it to 8) and his Assistance Start was on 3 (I moved it to 5). The Max Torque was OK at 85Nm. I advised him to have a play around with it when he got home. But now we were about to ride. He reported later that the bike was transformed! He was now excited about it. I only altered the Trail settings in Profile 1. He still had to look at Eco and Boost. And all of Profile 2 as well of course.

 

[Motohawk75]

@Motohawk75 In your OP you said that you found the EP8 "gutless" in comparison to the Bosch and Yamaha. I met a guy a few weeks ago with his new emtb and he said that he was disappointed with the EP8 on his first emtb. I had very recently bought my bike with its EP8 and I'd had to tone it down!! (Think Grand Prix traffic light starts and wheel-spinning everywhere).

I asked him if he had used the E-TUBE Project app to adjust the motor settings. He said that he hadn't. So right in front of him in about 3 minutes from start to finish, I altered the settings for him. He was on Profile 2, which was at low settings, even max torque. Profile 1 was a bit better in that at least his max torque was at 85Nm, but his Assistance Character was at 4 (I moved it to 8) and his Assistance Start was on 3 (I moved it to 5). The Max Torque was OK at 85Nm. I advised him to have a play around with it when he got home. But now we were about to ride. He reported later that the bike was transformed! He was now excited about it. I only altered the Trail settings in Profile 1. He still had to look at Eco and Boost. And all of Profile 2 as well of course.

It was my second ep8 so I know all the app tricks, on isolation it was ok but back to back with the Bosh and yam it’s incredibly weak on steep uphill climbs etc. I was shocked how much more they both had, the yam in eco could almost match the ep8 in boost.

 

[steve_sordy]

It was my second ep8 so I know all the app tricks, on isolation it was ok but back to back with the Bosh and yam it’s incredibly weak on steep uphill climbs etc. I was shocked how much more they both had, the yam in eco could almost match the ep8 in boost.

That may explain why I am struggling on a certain short steep climb. The motor has plenty of torque and I love it vs the e8000. It just seems that when the revs are low, like when I'm almost stalling on that bastard climb, it runs out of steam. I thought it was me. I seldom use Boost, but when I need it, I bloody well need it. So I have everything set to max, but I still can't get up that last two feet! I used to be able to do that climb on my mtb, but that was 7 years ago when I was Superman.

Thankyou @Motohawk75 you have given me a new excuse to use against my mate who rips the piss out me for being unable to get up the climb.

 

[Motohawk75]

That may explain why I am struggling on a certain short steep climb. The motor has plenty of torque and I love it vs the e8000. It just seems that when the revs are low, like when I'm almost stalling on that bastard climb, it runs out of steam. I thought it was me. I seldom use Boost, but when I need it, I bloody well need it. So I have everything set to max, but I still can't get up that last two feet! I used to be able to do that climb on my mtb, but that was 7 years ago when I was Superman.

Thankyou @Motohawk75 you have given me a new excuse to use against my mate who rips the piss out me for being unable to get up the climb.

glad to help lol
Honestly it’s a lovely smooth motor that definitely has the most natural feel but I’m not after that I want full on motor feel and punch and it just can’t compete ( in my opinion) with the Bosh or Yam, that’s not to say it’s not a great platform tho

 

[Mikerb]

I was not suggesting that you could not do XC or adventure type rides on the E 180 RS, of course you can. The best way I can describe the difference between ( in my case) the Levo and the E180 on those type of rides is that the E180 feels like it is half asleep! Turn off an easy singletrack though, and point it down a steep incline with G outs, drops, roots, rock gardens and fast flowing twisty trails, and it comes alive.......and YOU stay alive!! The suspension is super plush yet gives full support in the midstroke, so yes ,that may contribute to the feeling on easier terrain but I think it has more to do with the geometry. It has a longer wheelbase and front centre and reach, it is 27.5 rather than 29, and the centre of gravity is noticeably lower. Those characterisitics together with the excellent suspension platform makes it super stable at speed, and Code RSC brakes on 220mm F/200mm R rotors provide huge stopping power and plenty of modulation.

Perhaps the other aspect that better explains the difference between the E180RS and my Levo is that the Levo is also capable of more enduro type riding but despite having a 160mm Lyric Ultimate/ Fox DPS suspension set up, when it gets steep and gnarly the Levo really raises the adrenaline levels whereas the E180RS eats it for breakfast.
( I give my experience of the difference between my 2019 Levo Comp and the E180RS on the basis that the Levo is possibly closer to the Whyte E150 in terms of performance characteristics)

 

[Peter1979]

I've got an e180s which I've only had a short while.
For me it's more of an enduro/mini DH bike than an all rounder. That's not to say that it isn't capable of being an all rounder, but really if you are looking for a jack of all trades then probably the e150 or e160 would be better suited.
However, many people prefer to be over biked, and when you have a motor to take up the extra travel/weight penalties then I guess there's not much to lose.
For me, personally, the benefits of an ebike are for repeated DH runs rather than long trail rides and single-track. The motor cut off makes these sort of rides less enjoyable than using a normal bike whereas you don't really notice it on DH trails where gravity takes over..

 

[Rahr85]

It isn't an all rounder, it's just too gravity focused for the more tame trails. However i believe in the approach of buy the bike for the riding that you WANT to do and then just make do for everything else. It's all a compromise and i'm willing to put up with the bike making sherwood pines red route look like a bridleway for when i point it down some steep rooty/rocky descent of near death.

I still take mine out on long flat rides including a lot of tarmac but the stock rear tyre will basically melt under those conditions