Why do I keep breaking my rear Tyre ?

[outerlimits]

2 tyres now, Specialized Butcher grid 27.5 x 2.8 and Maxxis Minion DHR xco 3c.
First the Butcher got a split right at the rim, and now the DHR has done the same.
Fitted to the rear, tubeless with Stan’s running 22psi. I’m 114kg kitted up, but should not be splitting tyres, and never had problems with my old bike with 2.3’s
Why why why ?
Would running 2.5 or 2.6’s help ?

 

[SteveVentoux]

Not good, and expensive. Has it happened in the same place on the rim, may be a problem with the finish on the metal itself, rough edge ?

 

[outerlimits]

Not good, and expensive. Has it happened in the same place on the rim, may be a problem with the finish on the metal itself, rough edge ?

It has occurred to me but I am yet to check that out. The lower pressures in the plus tyres would give more sidewall flex too. Might be another reason for it. That’s why I was thinking 2.6’s. But not sure how they would go on 38mm internal rims.

 

[MartinW148]

22psi, either i'm running my tyres way too high (30psi) or that could be the problem....

 

[Witte300]

Had the same, at the rim there was a rough edge.
I sanded it down and it seems ok for now.

 

[SteveVentoux]

@MartinW148 I'm over twice the weight of the OP and run around 30psi too, seems perfect. I do run a lot lower in my 27+ hardtail, around 18, but a much lighter bike of course.

 

[Dax]

@MartinW148 I'm over twice the weight of the OP and run around 30psi too, seems perfect. I do run a lot lower in my 27+ hardtail, around 18, but a much lighter bike of course.

Are you sure you're over 228kg? That's 35 stone! If so, fair play for getting on a bike!

 

[MartinW148]

I'm starting to think Ihave my pressures too high, I only weigh 70kg

 

[SteveVentoux]

@Dax Ha ha, no sorry, I'm 238lbs, not kg, misread the original post - I'm a fool!

 

[eFat]

So it's possible to go above 8 psi???

 

[Tim29]

Every time i run less then 26psi on any trail that has even small chunk i say yellow to the rim ding gods and good by to a tire.
Did the same thing with two slaughters in 1 day running 26psi.
Now I’m at 31 and i haven’t cut a tire in 6 months

 

[outerlimits]

Every time i run less then 26psi on any trail that has even small chunk i say yellow to the rim ding gods and good by to a tire.
Did the same thing with two slaughters in 1 day running 26psi.
Now I’m at 31 and i haven’t cut a tire in 6 months

Yeah but what do you weigh ?
I have had no probs with rim dings.

 

[Tim29]

190lbs.
I cut 3 tires Nobby Nic, the factory then a snake skin, no marks in the wheel at all.
The grid case slaughter left a ding but I’m not sure which cut came first as by time i got stopped i had multiple cuts and a couple dings.

 

[drjarvis2003]

Vittoria air liners seem to be the answer for me, after trashing 3 wheels. Only been running them for a short while so far though.

 

[Tim29]

For me i was only running the lower pressure for the feel and for traction climbing. As my speed increased on the heavy ebikes i realized the lower pressures where really hindering my corner speed as well as my sprint speed. So now i spend more time dialing my rear suspension and run 30-35psi i don’t get nearly as many flats and i go noticeably quicker. Just have to learn the setup to take away slow speed harshness of higher pressure.

 

[Taffyteg]

2 tyres now, Specialized Butcher grid 27.5 x 2.8 and Maxxis Minion DHR xco 3c.
First the Butcher got a split right at the rim, and now the DHR has done the same.
Fitted to the rear, tubeless with Stan’s running 22psi. I’m 114kg kitted up, but should not be splitting tyres, and never had problems with my old bike with 2.3’s
Why why why ?
Would running 2.5 or 2.6’s help ?

View attachment 3726

I had the exact same problem on my standard Levo rims with the purgatory tyres. The tyres when running at low pressures (which in theory you should be able to with plus tyres) causes damage to the inside edge of the rim every time you hit a bump. Over time the inside of the rim sharpens to the point where it slices at the tyre sidewall and it's game over. You can rub down the inside edge to remove the sharp edge or go with a new set of rims and 2.8 Maxxis tyres running at 30-35psi on the rear and about 20-25psi on the front - which is what I did ?

 

[Kernow]

Fit some Rat bites problem solved and a better ride into the bargain

 

[Pendo]

A mate and I have been riding the same trails for two years on our Levos, no problems. Then my mate bought a TLD Kenevo, four pinch flats over the first two rides, same trail, same tyre pressures. He then swapped to the Grid tyres that came standard on out Levos, 3.0 width instead of the 2.8s. No flats since and we've thrashed that trail at least 20 times. Deducted the extra width gave extra protection to the rim.

 

[davegixer]

Fit some Rat bites problem solved and a better ride into the bargain

How long have you been using Ratbites? Just had a good look at their website, they recommend replacing them every two months. Yikes. Are they the same material as a swimming pool wiggle thingy?

 

[drjarvis2003]

be careful with the ratbites, i have damaged a rim already with them in and have now taken them out and replaced them with vittoria airliners , which are far more substantial in build, so far so good, although i will wait a while longer before i give a full review.

 

[davegixer]

be careful with the ratbites, i have damaged a rim already with them in and have now taken them out and replaced them with vittoria airliners , which are far more substantial in build, so far so good, although i will wait a while longer before i give a full review.

Thanks for the nod, they do look like a swimming pool float, and replacing every two months is not for me.
Look forward to hearing how you get on with the airliners.

 

[Tucker]

fit a magic mary 2.6 Dh tyre and you will no longer have this issue i got mine for bikediscount.de came within 4days, its a monster of a tyre, heavy tho at 1.4kg but so worth it. the grip is amazing!

 

[drjarvis2003]

to be fair to ratbite, i would still use them in a trail bike or even xc because they weigh almost nothing and would suit light to moderate use.

 

[Kernow]

I’ve had the ratbites in since February , I’ve pretty much worn out the rear tyre and changed tyres in June and fitted much lighter tyres . The ratbites were still good and I Re used them . I’ve ridden afan for a week solid on them and that place is rock hell . Plus another full week at glentress and Innerleithen which is also quite rough going . My regular trails are strewn with sharp granite , and Iam no stranger to damaging tyres and the odd rim iether mind have done Over 1000 miles all off road so far at low pressures .
My daughter and her boyfriend are currently competing on them with a podium at pretty much every event so far and they have not worn them out yet , and have been puncture free at every event so far including a gruelling Ews round in France .

davegixer The maker is not saying replace every 2 months at all , the advice is to check every 2 months with a view to replace if necessary to be sure people realise they don’t last forever and cover himself . No inserts last forever, nor does your tubeless fluid , they are doing a fairly tough job when you think about it , and if you’ve ever used the similar insert in a motorcycle off road you will know how long they can last, or should I say not last .

at £18 a wheel compared to the huge cost of the other much heavier and often less effective solutions I think they are still good value even if they only lasted one tyres life considering the 3 months before this has cost us much more than that in damaged tyres they are saving me money and lots of grief , and helping secure wins at races .
Best of all we haven’t noticed any increased drag with them , not so bad on a bike but when Iam told by my daughter that she can’t notice any drag I know they are good

I would say they will last the life of 2 tyres on the rear of an ebike , and that’s with a heavier rider using on rough rocky trails .
All the foam inserts sustain damage and wear , the foam saves tyre pinching against the rim and the foam will cut in that area but it’s saved your tyre and rim that’s how they all work

be careful with the ratbites, i have damaged a rim already with them in and have now taken them out and replaced them with vittoria airliners , which are far more substantial in build, so far so good, although i will wait a while longer before i give a full review.

If you have damaged a rim its not the fault of the rat bite for sure , it would have saved greater damage and I’ll bet you would have sustained damage with any of the current systems available , you don’t enlarge on the damage you sustained , did the tyre damage as well ?
Yes the material is a closed cell foam same or similar as a pool noodle , but it’s very light wieght and certainly does the job very well indeed, but I don’t think any system can guarantee to iliminate damage .

That Vitoria insert looks very good , it’s a similar approach to the rat bite semi filling the tyre void , it’s clearly a much heavier duty item being more than twice the wieght . I would be very interested in how it feels and rides compared to the ratbites , and what pressures you can use .

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

fit a magic mary 2.6 Dh tyre and you will no longer have this issue i got mine for bikediscount.de came within 4days, its a monster of a tyre, heavy tho at 1.4kg but so worth it. the grip is amazing!

100% agree with @Tucker.
You do not need inserts if you use the MM 2.6 DH ultrasoft version.
Yes they are heavy, However, they will protect your rims as the carcass is super robust and strong, you will be able to forget about punctures and you will also get insane grip and believe or not, a very reasonable wear rate.

 

[Kernow]

The magic Mary super soft dh is what they were running before , And it was a really tough tyre and was very reliable but not 100%. They are still on the mary but using the soft , orange line model in a lighter carcas with a rat bite . They say it’s faster rolling and lighter with a better feel from the lighter carcass with the insert . You don’t know until you try it , At ews dh tyres with inserts were needed

 

[drjarvis2003]

I’ve had the ratbites in since February , I’ve pretty much worn out the rear tyre and changed tyres in June and fitted much lighter tyres . The ratbites were still good and I Re used them . I’ve ridden afan for a week solid on them and that place is rock hell . Plus another full week at glentress and Innerleithen which is also quite rough going . My regular trails are strewn with sharp granite , and Iam no stranger to damaging tyres and the odd rim iether mind have done Over 1000 miles all off road so far at low pressures .
My daughter and her boyfriend are currently competing on them with a podium at pretty much every event so far and they have not worn them out yet , and have been puncture free at every event so far including a gruelling Ews round in France .

davegixer The maker is not saying replace every 2 months at all , the advice is to check every 2 months with a view to replace if necessary to be sure people realise they don’t last forever and cover himself . No inserts last forever, nor does your tubeless fluid , they are doing a fairly tough job when you think about it , and if you’ve ever used the similar insert in a motorcycle off road you will know how long they can last, or should I say not last .

at £18 a wheel compared to the huge cost of the other much heavier and often less effective solutions I think they are still good value even if they only lasted one tyres life considering the 3 months before this has cost us much more than that in damaged tyres they are saving me money and lots of grief , and helping secure wins at races .
Best of all we haven’t noticed any increased drag with them , not so bad on a bike but when Iam told by my daughter that she can’t notice any drag I know they are good

I would say they will last the life of 2 tyres on the rear of an ebike , and that’s with a heavier rider using on rough rocky trails .
All the foam inserts sustain damage and wear , the foam saves tyre pinching against the rim and the foam will cut in that area but it’s saved your tyre and rim that’s how they all work



If you have damaged a rim its not the fault of the rat bite for sure , it would have saved greater damage and I’ll bet you would have sustained damage with any of the current systems available , you don’t enlarge on the damage you sustained , did the tyre damage as well ?
Yes the material is a closed cell foam same or similar as a pool noodle , but it’s very light wieght and certainly does the job very well indeed, but I don’t think any system can guarantee to iliminate damage .

That Vitoria insert looks very good , it’s a similar approach to the rat bite semi filling the tyre void , it’s clearly a much heavier duty item being more than twice the wieght . I would be very interested in how it feels and rides compared to the ratbites , and what pressures you can use .

I didn't say it was the fault of the ratbite, I said I sustained damage with a ratbite installed and have now lost faith in them for e bikes. The airliners are solid compared to the ratbite and twice the size too. You can squash the ratbite with your fingers but no chance with airliner. 2 different materiels. Like I said before I can't guarantee the airliners are perfect as I have only had them a week, but so far no probs. Fyi, I have been told that cushcore are shipping plus size inserts in a few days, 9 months late. Anyone used them in smaller size yet?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

The magic Mary super soft dh is what they were running before , And it was a really tough tyre and was very reliable but not 100%. They are still on the mary but using the soft , orange line model in a lighter carcas with a rat bite . They say it’s faster rolling and lighter with a better feel from the lighter carcass with the insert . You don’t know until you try it , At ews dh tyres with inserts were needed

Hi Kernow, Do they have ebikes or acoustic?

 

[davegixer]

I’ve had the ratbites in since February , I’ve pretty much worn out the rear tyre and changed tyres in June and fitted much lighter tyres . The ratbites were still good and I Re used them . I’ve ridden afan for a week solid on them and that place is rock hell . Plus another full week at glentress and Innerleithen which is also quite rough going . My regular trails are strewn with sharp granite , and Iam no stranger to damaging tyres and the odd rim iether mind have done Over 1000 miles all off road so far at low pressures .
My daughter and her boyfriend are currently competing on them with a podium at pretty much every event so far and they have not worn them out yet , and have been puncture free at every event so far including a gruelling Ews round in France .

davegixer The maker is not saying replace every 2 months at all , the advice is to check every 2 months with a view to replace if necessary to be sure people realise they don’t last forever and cover himself . No inserts last forever, nor does your tubeless fluid , they are doing a fairly tough job when you think about it , and if you’ve ever used the similar insert in a motorcycle off road you will know how long they can last, or should I say not last .

at £18 a wheel compared to the huge cost of the other much heavier and often less effective solutions I think they are still good value even if they only lasted one tyres life considering the 3 months before this has cost us much more than that in damaged tyres they are saving me money and lots of grief , and helping secure wins at races .
Best of all we haven’t noticed any increased drag with them , not so bad on a bike but when Iam told by my daughter that she can’t notice any drag I know they are good

I would say they will last the life of 2 tyres on the rear of an ebike , and that’s with a heavier rider using on rough rocky trails .
All the foam inserts sustain damage and wear , the foam saves tyre pinching against the rim and the foam will cut in that area but it’s saved your tyre and rim that’s how they all work



If you have damaged a rim its not the fault of the rat bite for sure , it would have saved greater damage and I’ll bet you would have sustained damage with any of the current systems available , you don’t enlarge on the damage you sustained , did the tyre damage as well ?
Yes the material is a closed cell foam same or similar as a pool noodle , but it’s very light wieght and certainly does the job very well indeed, but I don’t think any system can guarantee to iliminate damage .

That Vitoria insert looks very good , it’s a similar approach to the rat bite semi filling the tyre void , it’s clearly a much heavier duty item being more than twice the wieght . I would be very interested in how it feels and rides compared to the ratbites , and what pressures you can use .

And they're made in Cornwall.......are you from Kernow by chance?

davegixer The maker is not saying replace every 2 months at all , the advice is to check every 2 months with a view to replace if necessary

I would hope the manufacturer is advising when to check and replace based on product knowledge and testing. So, they 'could' require replacing every 2 months.

No inserts last forever, nor does your tubeless fluid.

No one implied they should last forever, my concern is with them needing replacing every, you guessed it, 2 months.

and if you’ve ever used the similar insert in a motorcycle off road you will know how long they can last, or should I say not last .

Yes I've used them extensively for years, all over Europe doing some incredibly harsh Enduros, and no manufacturer advised me to check and potentially replace so frequently.

Thanks for the info and personal opinions, genuinely appreciated but i'm not sure they're for me.

 

[Kernow]

Hi Kernow, Do they have ebikes or acoustic?

Acoustic bikes ? Hi

And they're made in Cornwall.......are you from Kernow by chance?

Yes they are made in Cornwall , but it has no bearing on what I think of them . I feel the guy who has made them has hit some unfair feedback on the media because they are made from same material as a pool noodle .

I would hope the manufacturer is advising when to check and replace based on product knowledge and testing. So, they 'could' require replacing every 2 months.
The who makes them is a pretty keen hardtail Dh racer And I expect thats where they got tested so it’s possible


No one implied they should last forever, my concern is with them needing replacing every, you guessed it, 2 months.

Well you ain’t got much to lose at the price , if you tried them and they saved you one tyre then they have covered thier cost 2 fold

Yes I've used them extensively for years, all over Europe doing some incredibly harsh Enduros, and no manufacturer advised me to check and potentially replace so frequently.
But you know from experience how long they last . And I bet you were a little shocked when you found out .

Thanks for the info and personal opinions, genuinely appreciated but i'm not sure they're for me.

Seriously I have no vested interest in this product , even though it’s made in cornwall Iam just surprised at the negative comments they get when to me they seem to do a job very well at such a sensible cost .