Which direction to go for new build?

[firstlight]

Long story short I've got a ride1up limited that I've had for 6 months and put over 1500 miles on, and it is great as a commuter bike and for smooth easy trails, but I want something more suitable for actual mountain biking trails to have ready for next spring. I have burned out a couple controllers and motor cables on the limited because the wiring and controller are very undersized for what the motor can do in my opinion and has basically zero ventilation being inside the frame. I can't resist going up steep trails and this bike isn't meant for it, I could get a different higher-powered controller and mount it in my rack bag and probably solve the overheating problem but I do want to go full suspension, hence my seeking advice here.

I am leaning towards converting a circa 2010 Giant anthem full suspension 26-in bike to a rear hub motor with much more power than my current bike. Having only used one mid drive bike before but having a lot of experience with a rear hub, here's my dilemma that you guys can answer. I like to cruise with throttle only from a stop to full speed very often, am I correct that with the mid drive I would have to rev up through all of my gears to get to my top speed like on a motorcycle? Since I will want to use this bike for commuting as well as mountain biking trails, I don't want to have to be shifting gears that much when cruising around and not needing maximum torque for steep uphill sections. Let me know if I'm way off base here? I'm at the point where I haven't invested anything so I'm open to ideas.

For those that have done rear hub high powered full suspension mountain bike builds, do you recommend a lower wattage geared hub motor in the 1500 watt range, or one of the 2000w or 3000w larger direct drive hub motors? I understand the torque will be way lower on the direct drive but not sure if the higher wattage bursts overcome that, versus having all that weight compared to a smaller motor. Basically I'm wondering where the sweet spot is so the bike doesn't weigh too much and other considerations.

Right now my flat ground speeds max out at 31 or 32, and I can get up the trails I want for about a couple miles before things overheat too much to start doing damage. I want to improve on this plus have full suspension, and be overpowered to the point where I can run things at lower settings and not worry about burning out and still have more in the tank to crank it up if I just want to have some fun. The limited is so fun but I guess I'm hooked at this point and want more!

With your experience and trial and error building which direction would you go? Let me know what other details would help.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Aren’t you answering your own questions.

and I can get up the trails I want for about a couple miles before things overheat too much to start doing damage.

Hub motors at low rpm draw max current which means max heat. Mid motors mean gears to let the motor spin freely, limiting the heat.

For all your desires you may need to think of owning two bikes, your commuter with its hub motor and a decent full sus EMtb where you can climb to your hearts content.

 

[firstlight]

The limitation on my current bike is not the motor overheating, that has always been fine and doesn't get too hot. It is the controller and wiring melting before the power ever gets to the motor to get hot. So I believe with a beefier controller and wiring with better ventilation the current bike wouldn't fail like it does in those situations.

But that is beside the point because this will be a new build with motor, controller and everything sized correctly to work together. I was just pointing out the mismatch of components on my off the shelf bike.

And as far as having two separate bikes with two purposes, one for bike paths and one for mountain trails is a good idea, but where I live I use all of those trails mixed together on rides because they're all connected. So do like a 20 mi circuit involving bike paths and then going up mountain trails and then looping back into town.

 

[Waynemarlow]

So do you like a 20 mi circuit involving bike paths and then going up mountain trails and then looping back into town.

Yup but then I have 11 speeds on a very wide ratio cassette to select from and I use them all, rather than simply yanking on the throttle.

What you are looking for is the Unicorn of all bike threads, the perfect all round do it all bike. Sorry it doesn’t exist.

 

[firstlight]

Gotcha well I am going to try out a mid drive with a throttle and see how I like it. The one mid drive bike I tried was just pedal assist. Maybe there is a good gear for throttle only cruising through the entire speed range from stop to 30mph that would work. Of course with less torque available compared to reving up through each gear (on flat paved ground).

 

[Waynemarlow]

Gotcha well I am going to try out a mid drive with a throttle and see how I like it. The one mid drive bike I tried was just pedal assist. Maybe there is a good gear for throttle only cruising through the entire speed range from stop to 30mph that would work. Of course with less torque available compared to reving up through each gear (on flat paved ground).

If you want to go from 0 to 30 in one gear then your hub motor is the only option.

 

[TeoElFeo]

I agree with Waynemarlow on all points. One thing I would like to add - hub motors(especially direct drive) are no good for proper off-road riding due to the wait distribution imbalance.

If I was you, I would be looking to buil up something with bafang ultra or convert with cyc x1 kit. Those motors are capable enough for throttle riding and have torque sensing plus better clearance(compared to bbshd). Just don't expect the same throttle feel. You will still need to use gears.

 

[firstlight]

That is very true about the weight distribution, Even with my smaller current hub motor you can feel the back end wanting to fly off the edge of the trail around corners from the weight.

I wanted to go try a BBS HD build on the exact giant bike I'll be using, but it is no longer available so I just need to find one to try to see if it will work for me!

Thanks for all the advice so far, you probably steered me away from a waste of money.