Which Bosch GEN4 bike, Cube, Orbea, Focus or YT?

[trovster]

I am looking for my first electric mountain bike. I have demoed a Specialized Turbo Levo on two occasions, on holiday and my local trails (Cannock Chase). This was a few years ago, so I am sure everything has moved on.

I have an idea of what I am looking for, but it seems the exact combination is out of my price range. I primarily ride single track avoiding massive drops or jumps and my current trail bike is a Santa Cruz 5010. I know I don't need 160mm of travel, but the electric assist offsets their downsides and might help my confidence.

All my previous bikes has used Shimano components paired with Fox suspsension, so this is the combination I am looking at – mainly due to familiarity with the levels/quality. I am a "fit and forget" rider, but often find myself being pulled in to the marketing. As long as the suspension is decent then I would be happy. I am sure switching to SRAM wouldn't be an issue, I would prefer to stick to Shimano for shifting.

After going through some different bikes, a lot are specced with RockShox 35 Gold RL & RockShox Deluxe Select for their suspension. What do these compare to in the Fox range? Fox 34 Rhythm seems to be an upgrade. What are people's thoughts on the different displays; Purion or newer Kiox – do they make much difference, really? Is there any integration with Garmin 530 GPS?

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I think I have narrowed the selection down to the following. All have Fox suspension, Focus JAM² 9.8 Nine and the YT Decoy have the Shimano motor, but the rest have new Bosch GEN 4 motor. The Cube is incredibly well specced, especially with the carbon front-end, rear shock, SRAM Eagle drivetrain and Magura brakes. Even more so the YT and it's the cheapest of the bunch. I very briefly tried the Orbea and I liked it – Rob gives it a decent review - and it has decent components. I don't need anything too aggressive and slack and I think these actually fit with the type of riding I do. According to a review, the YT has "playful handling on the trail" and has a broad range of riding characteristics and application.

Bosch GEN4 Motor

• Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 HPC 625 29 TM = £4,699 - Fox 36 Float 150mm & Fox Float DPX2 EVOL, SRAM NX Eagle 10-50T 1x12, Magura MT7, e*13 - 18" or 20"?
• Orbea Wild FS H20 = £4,699 - Fox 36 Float Performance 160mm & Fox Float DPS Performance, Shimano XT/SLX, Race Face - Large
• Focus JAM² 6.8 Nine = £4,599 - Bosch, Fox 34 Rhythm 150mm & Fox Float DPS Performance, Shimano SLX - Medium or Large?

Shimano Motor

• Focus JAM² 9.8 Nine = £4,749 - Carbon, Rock Shox 35 Gold RL and Deluxe Select, Shimano SLX - Medium or Large?
• YT Decoy Comp = £4,566.80 - Carbon, Fox 36 Float Rhythm & Fox Float DPX2, Shimano SLX, SRAM Code R brakes - Large

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Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 HPC 625 29
+ Bosch GEN 4 - 75nm
+ 625w battery
+ Bosch Kiox display
+ Carbon front triangle
+ "relaxed, long-distance position"
/ Was initially my first choice
/ Don't know if I need 18" or 20"
- Reviews don't seem to love it

• SL = £4,199 - Fox 34 Rhythm 140mm & Fox Float DPS EVOL, Shimano XT
• TM = £4,699 - Fox 36 Float 150mm & Fox Float DPX2 EVOL, SRAM NX Eagle 10-50T 1x12, Magura MT7, e*13

Orbea Wild FS
+ Bosch GEN 4 - 75nm
+ 625w battery
/ Demoed in store and I liked it
/ Bosch Purion display
/ "speed on man-made trails, technical climbs and descents and airtime"
- "aimed primarily at more experienced riders instead of leisurely riders"

• H25 - £4,299 - Rockshox 25 Gold RL 160mm & Fox Float DPS Performance, Shimano XT/SLX, Race Face
• H20 - £4,699 - Fox 36 Float Performance 160mm & Fox Float DPS Performance, Shimano XT/SLX, Race Face

Focus JAM²
+ Bosch GEN 4 - 75nm
+ 625w battery
+ Not too long, agile
/ Don't know much about them

• 6.8 Nine - £4,599 - Bosch GEN4 625, Fox 34 Rhythm 150mm & Fox Float DPS Performance, Shimano SLX
• 9.8 Nine - £4,749 - Carbon, Shimano E8000, Rock Shox 35 Gold RL and Deluxe Select, Shimano SLX

YT Decoy
+ Carbon
+ Amazing spec
/ Shimano E800
/ Shimano E7000 display
- Can't demo

• Comp - £4,566.80 - Fox 36 Float Rhythm & Fox Float DPX2, Shimano SLX, SRAM Code R brakes

Trek Rail
+ Bosch GEN 4 - 75nm
+ 625w battery
- I don't like the looks
- Rail 5 colour is horrible

• Rail 5 - £3,750 - RockShox 35 Gold RL 160mm & RockShox Deluxe RL, SRAM SX Eagle 1x12, Tektro HD-M745 4-piston brakes
• Rail 7 - £4,800 - RockShox Yari RC 160mm & RockShox Deluxe RL, Shimano SLX/XT, Shimano MT520 4-piston brakes

Moustache Samedi 27
+ Review matches my riding style
+ "most comfortable and capable climber"
- 650b not 29er

• Trail 4 = £4,290 - RockShox 35 Gold RL 150mm & Moustache Magic Grip Control 150mm, SRAM SX Eagle, 12-speed, MT500 brakes

Moustache Samedi 29
+ Review matches my riding style
/ 160mm travel too much?

• Game 4 - £4,590 - RockShox 35 Gold RL 160mm & Moustache Magic Grip Control 160mm, SRAM SX Eagle, 12-speed, MT520 brakes

Specialized Turbo Levo
+ Well refined & good reviews
+ Industry standard
+ Brose Mag
/ A common bike
- Expensive, with basic components

• Levo = £4,249 - RockShox 35 and Deluxe Select, SRAM NX 1x11, SRAM Level T brakes.

 

[Doomanic]

Trek Rail
- I don't like the looks

Best get something guide dog compatible then.

 

[Couchy]

Whichever one you can get from a local dealer ?

 

[Turbo Dave]

i was looking at similar bikes

cube tm 625 i was all set to buy but due to using half cash half on the drip i wasn't offered much discount another thing was at 5 10 the medium cube is cramped the large was fine but the dropped at full pop was to long so i would either have to run it at like 132mm of the 150 (apparently not good for it) or change the dropper

eventually i went for the went for the orbea wild fs m20 carbon in the end and paid less that the cube for it i think the cube may be still slightly better specced but i dont know specs tbh

 

[Jirkovo]

I would like Specialized with a Yamaha engine

 

[TorAtle]

I have the Orbea H25. Some comments:

* The frame is really pretty with polished welds and a nice paint job. I thought it was a carbon frame the first time I saw it.
* Seating position is too forward for my liking, I have swapped the handlebar for one with 40mm rise (up from 20mm).
* The powertube battery is somewhat hard to remove for charging, I would charge in-bike if possible. Might be the same for most bikes with gen4.
* Dropper lever is low quality.
* Possible to piggyback a 2nd battery with optional kit
* Bike is heavy. Over 24kg.
* gen4 is pretty noisy compared to the Brose motor.

The H20 comes with better fork, shock and wheels which justifies the price increase. Good luck with the decision

 

[trovster]

A friend has put a spanner in the works by suggesting Propain Ekano, which looks beautiful and amazing spec for the price. Obviously, this is down to the direct-sales business model. Comparing with the YT, the YT has a carbon frame whereas the Propain is aluminium. Both, however, run the (old) Shimano motor. Am I putting to much focus on the new Bosch GEN 4 motor?

 

[Beezerk]

Nope, get a Whyte ?

 

[Turbo Dave]

Are u buying cash as u should be looking at discounts if u are meaning better bike for the money

 

[trovster]

Are u buying cash as u should be looking at discounts if u are meaning better bike for the money

How does that work? I probably don't think it'll be cash, although I saved more than the 50% most limit you with 0% payments. It's also a consideration with direct-sales manufacturers.

 

[steve_sordy]

I agree with Couchy about buying from a local dealer. At least for your first emtb.

With your previous analogue bikes you may have been comfortable buying from an internet seller, or even from abroad. If you are like me, and can fix most things on an analogue bike then distance buying holds no fears. If you can analyse a geometry diagram and work out whether the bike will fit you, then test rides are not required (just read the reviews).

But emtbs are different! Yes they are bikes like all the rest, but they have an electric motor, a battery, display, wiring, a charger, and software! Failures outside the warranty period in any of those areas can be expensive, but most importantly, can be very time consuming to resolve. Do you really want to be packing up your bike and sending it back to Germany, Spain, ...wherever? Not knowing when you will see it again!

In addition, a test ride is even more important if you have not ridden that emtb. The motors and their software behave differently to each other, giving a difference ride experience. Do you want a big display, no display, colour or black/white, where, etc? How do you want to change power modes; levers, buttons, rocker switches?

I bought from a UK dealer, a very good one, and with zero complaints. The mistake I made was to buy from one that was a three and a half hour round trip away. For anything that they can't fix quickly while I wait, that is two round trips! So I ended up going to a closer one (that I could have used in the first place) and I pay £37 for them to pursue any warranty claims on my behalf. (Only one so far).

 

[trovster]

Thanks for the information @steve_sordy. The problem I have found, is finding the bikes to demo. I spent Sunday driving around different shops. No where had any full-sus Cubes. One place had a Trek and another had the Orbea.

With regarding displays, I just don't know. I have seen some come with older Purion style and others with a newer Kiox. I don't know much about the Shimano displays.

It sounds like a lot goes wrong with these bikes!

 

[Dirt_Ebike]

Don’t forget about the Trek Rail. It has the new Bosch Gen 4 motor, and some amazing geometry.

 

[Doomanic]

Don’t forget about the Trek Rail. It has the new Bosch Gen 4 motor, and some amazing geometry.

Stevie Wonder doesn't like the look of it for some reason.

 

[liv2ryd]

Try a Trek Rail. I've spent a month on one so far and its a better overall package than my 2019 Intense Tazer. Fit and finish are top notch and a great handling package.

 

[filotnie]

Everyone is bitching about direct sales and YT Service where I have only good impressions myself - so far. OK Delivery is always a bit of stress and you have to be at home but it is all for better price. Overall Decoy package is excellent! Well designed great bike. Still great and reliable motor, plenty of service centers that will do whats necessary with it. Service support from YT is not the quickest but also not the worst.. just be reasonable.
I used to have an episode with bike shop for longer weeks looking at the customers of bike shop and their workshop. There are customers that came in and staff loves them! They will do a lot for free and make sure that all will work great. For those often crew will do some extra more then required. There are though customers who are such a pain that you simple hate them and their bikes. Rolling eyes is just minimum between the crew. Often enough they don't care and charge everything.
Ask yourself which kind of customer you are.
The same goes for direct consumer brands support.
There are also shops that do not care at all except earning money - I would avoid like hell and still would prefer buying online because for the sake of global international sale they have to care. YT certainly have to take care of their brand name..
btw: People are talking a lot of bullshit on internet these days.. like a lot!
With YT you have withdrawal policy buying online (EU one and I think something from YT). If you play fair and something is wrong with the bike you can return it. Later you still have guarantee. Try for yourself.
I was also looking at the cube for a while.. but after checking couple of cube shops and dealers.. I said to myself - fuck it.. they don't want sell me a bike they just want my money.
Online was more fair. More responsive. Better answers to my questions.
After delivery I had 2 minor issues. Both sorted within 2 weeks.
E13 components - so far no complains from my side. If spotted a problem I will contact YT and probably E13 I've heard they are sorting it out.
I've also don't expect either YT or parts manufacturers to sort problems I am to be blamed for - wear and tear or lost pedal pin. If my disk is slightly bend after delivery I could do both complain or just fucking make it straight (true). It will be bend like hundreds of times before guarantee will end.
One thing I wouldn't certainly not buy myself is any Spesh - not only because I can't afford but more that I wouldn't spend premium for under-delivered overall package. I know that there are some decent bike-shops really taking care but I am more about brand.
Similar disappointment with Cube.
YT is on the other spectrum. Though I think they shall focus a bit more on PR and after sale support image.
In the middle are all brands I don't know yet

OK rant over..
Good luck! Check as much as possible yourself (I can see you are preparing yourself well - I went through similar process) and have fun. Once you buy a great bike you know it. Smile doesn't come down from your face for long time. Whenever you ride it, clean it, read about it or just stair at it!

 

[filotnie]

I've checked Orbea once more. Damn it is beautiful bike (2020).
Have a second look at geometry.
It has a bit longer chainstay and it is a bit short on reach. For trail riding chainstay short is nice. It may work for you though.
Ekano looks great too indeed.

 

[Good Times]

Trek Rail 7 is what I went with. Zero regrets, would buy again. Handling is great, auto mode is all I use, range is excellent. Looks should be the last thing on your list, who cares when you’re shredding!!?! Although I think they look great.

 

[cat1]

You are better off reading the review of people who test them. There are very few if any people on here who have ridden all of these bikes. People will usually just recommend what they have bought if they are happy with it as they have made the decision to buy that bike.

 

[Good Times]

Yes but most of us recommending our bikes have also probably ridden a lot. I rode as many as I could and agonized over it for months! The research paid off imo. I also valued forum advice.

 

[filotnie]

You are better off reading the review of people who test them. There are very few if any people on here who have ridden all of these bikes. People will usually just recommend what they have bought if they are happy with it as they have made the decision to buy that bike.

Isn't it confirmation bias?? I am having this too

 

[cat1]

Yes but most of us recommending our bikes have also probably ridden a lot. I rode as many as I could and agonized over it for months! The research paid off imo. I also valued forum advice.

You cant really demo all of the direct sale brands and these usually offer the best value for money. Even when I have been on demo bikes they are not usually set up how I like them with sag and things. When reviewers have them they get the chance to get them set up correctly and have a better knowledge of the rest of the market for comparison.

 

[Doomanic]

And not at all influenced by advertising revenue...

I’ve ridden 3 YT Decoys, all three models of Whyte, a Levo, a Canyon Spectral:On and a Rail 7.

I didn’t like the base model YT, Whyte or the Canyon l. The Levo was OK but had been fiddled with with Blevo. I really liked the top YT and Whyte e180RS. I prefer the Bosch over the Shimano motor so the Whyte would be my choice out of those two, although the Decoy is much better looking.

I had actually decided to stick with my Powerfly for another year but a crack in the frame meant I was offered a Rail as a warranty upgrade. It is a significant improvement over the Powerfly and IMO better than the Whyte e150 all the time and the e180 most of the time, until it gets silly steep. It’s also much better looking than the Whyte. I understand and appreciate why the Whyte looks like it does. Still don’t like it though.

 

[trovster]

So I ended up buying at Orbea Wild FS. Hopefully it'll be here for riding at the weekend!

 

[Doomanic]

Dual battery?

 

[trovster]

Nah. I think 625 will be enough.

 

[trovster]

I prefer the Bosch over the Shimano motor

I was also looking at the YT, but I wanted the newer motor tech. If the Propain has the Bosch motor I would’ve gone for that instead.

 

[BigLee]

I bought the cube 140 tm, so far loving it after 180 miles ? local dealer, got a discount, great for lake district riding ?

 

[Frank_Denmark]

I was also looking at the YT, but I wanted the newer motor tech. If the Propain has the Bosch motor I would’ve gone for that instead.

So I ended up buying at Orbea Wild FS. Hopefully it'll be here for riding at the weekend!

Excellent choice - the Wild FS looks awesome
Pics please

 

[spacemonkey]

Shimano is a great motor.

A friend has put a spanner in the works by suggesting Propain Ekano, which looks beautiful and amazing spec for the price. Obviously, this is down to the direct-sales business model. Comparing with the YT, the YT has a carbon frame whereas the Propain is aluminium. Both, however, run the (old) Shimano motor. Am I putting to much focus on the new Bosch GEN 4 motor?

a