Which bike? Currently a Cannondale Trek Neo 3. I need more power

[Desmond]

Thanks for the membership

I bought a Cannondale Trek Neo 3, but i need more power and more gears.

I need a bike i can ride in 10.-12. gear up a steep hill, with the engine giving me more help, compared to my Bosch Active Plus. I always need to go to a lower gear when driving up hills. It's like the motor turns off when i'm in a high gear and climbing those hills.


Because of my legs (weak because of injury), it's best for me to drive with the highest gear possible most of the time and have a nice and natural feeling push from the motor, and that extra push when climbing hills.

The bar needs to be fairly high, but not crazy high.

Medium prized bike. I prefer Scott or Cannondale. The more gears the better.

Any suggestions for a bike?

 

[Desmond]

Anyone?

 

[z1ppy]

Hi Desmond, I think we need more information from you to help. For instance are you purely looking at hardtails? What type of riding are you using your bike for (road/gravel/light or full on off road) or do you plan to try?

I can see the Bosch active plus line has 50Nm of torque, so most mid drive alternatives should give you more power. Hopefully someone else can tell us which motor is more suited to your slower cadence (I assume) type of riding style or even if derestricting the motor may help?

 

[Beekeeper]

Thanks for the membership

I bought a Cannondale Trek Neo 3, but i need more power and more gears.

I need a bike i can ride in 10.-12. gear up a steep hill, with the engine giving me more help, compared to my Bosch Active Plus. I always need to go to a lower gear when driving up hills. It's like the motor turns off when i'm in a high gear and climbing those hills.


Because of my legs (weak because of injury), it's best for me to drive with the highest gear possible most of the time and have a nice and natural feeling push from the motor, and that extra push when climbing hills.

The bar needs to be fairly high, but not crazy high.

Medium prized bike. I prefer Scott or Cannondale. The more gears the better.

Any suggestions for a bike?

£1889 in sales at the moment for Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 (2020 version)

It is a 12 speed, and has the latest Bosch Gen 4 cx motor which is much more powerful than the one you have. Also 500w battery for longer range.

 

[Gazareeny]

Yamaha motors on the Haibikes and giants work well around 70rpm cadence

 

[Desmond]

Thanks for helping me out.
I'll try to clarify a bit

I will need the bike for driving in the city mostly. So a lot of stops, where i need to accelerate fairly quick, to cross a road or when the light section turns green (my legs are very weak when accelerating, so i need lots of help from the motor). There's a lot of steep hills in the city.

I will use it to take short trips to the forest once in a while. Nothing crazy, just cruising around driving mostly on gravel and lots of steep hills.

I'm trying out a Scott E-ride Contessa 20 this weekend. A womens bike, but i dont mind. Cool looking bike with a 2019 Performance CX.

I like big and bold tires. Since my balance is quite poor, big and wide tires, gives me a sense of stability, even in sharp turns (mostly in the city. During winter the roads can be quite slippery)

Purely hardtail. I need as much suspension as possible though. I was thinking that i could get a new saddle with springs or something, to spare my back a bit, when driving in rough terrain.

 

[Desmond]

So my problem on my current bike is mostly low cadence/torque?
Can i drive the CX Performance up medium steep hills (10-20%) fairly easy (speed wise) and be in a high gear?

 

[Beekeeper]

So my problem on my current bike is mostly low cadence/torque?
Can i drive the CX Performance up medium steep hills (10-20%) fairly easy (speed wise) and be in a high gear?

You won’t have any trouble getting up hills with a gen 2 cx. Turbo mode is pretty awesome. My only niggle is the “peddling through treacle” sensation when above 15.5mph on the flat.

 

[Desmond]

You won’t have any trouble getting up hills with a gen 2 cx. Turbo mode is pretty awesome. My only niggle is the “peddling through treacle” sensation when above 15.5mph on the flat.

Yeah that kind of worries me a bit too. So it just turns off suddently when above 15.5 mph?
I'm courious as to how 15.5 mph in 11 th gear with no engine help will feel like...

 

[Gary]

Seems like you have very specific issues.
You say your legs are weak. but can you hold a decent cadence?
From what you're saying it sounds like you prefer to be in a high gear (ie. lower cadence).
If you can sustain a higher cadence (70-100rpm - nothing crazy) you should be able to use LOWER gearing which will need less power from your legs and should accelerate better.

if you're looking for BIG tyres suitable for the road I'd reccomment Schwalbe Moto X. they're available in a 2.8 or 2.4 width and at 50-60psi roll pretty quickly. being quite tough and having a shallow tread they're fine for light off road use too.
They're pretty heavy (which affects acceleration) so if you're looking for a wide fast accelerating tyre purely for road use take a look at Schwalbe G-One or G-One speed tyres. - they're less than HALF the weight of a MotoX - which if set up tubeless makes a huge difference to acceleration

Be aware if choosing new tyres that big plus sized road tyres aren't actually any more stable on road and when leant over properly don't actually hold on as well as proper road tyres (eg. a good quality 700x25c). They are more comfortable/forgiving though.

 

[Desmond]

I would say that 50-60 rpm cadence is where i'm most comfortable.
Currently, i can only do above 70 rpm for short periods of time.
It will hopefully get better with time, but it might take 1-2 years

 

[Beekeeper]

Yeah that kind of worries me a bit too. So it just turns off suddently when above 15.5 mph?
I'm courious as to how 15.5 mph in 11 th gear with no engine help will feel like...

With a cx motor 15.5mph in 11th gear (power off) on the flat is ok but the moment you hit even a slight incline you really notice the drag.
Gen4 cx is significantly better in this regard as it decouples so you don’t have to cope with the added friction of the motor above this speed. Also the Gen4 is smaller and lighter and has the larger chainring at the front.

 

[Desmond]

Ok, thanks for the info.

Should i worry about tire size? 27.5 Vs 29

 

[Gary]

Should i worry about tire size? 27.5 Vs 29

not really

although 29 is just remarketed 700c which would open up a huge range of actual road tyres to you.

shimano motors have no drag when switched off (or above the 15.5 limit)
as do(n't) brose.
both can be de-restricted.
legally if on road upto 28mph in the US

 

[Desmond]

With a cx motor 15.5mph in 11th gear (power off) on the flat is ok but the moment you hit even a slight incline you really notice the drag.
Gen4 cx is significantly better in this regard as it decouples so you don’t have to cope with the added friction of the motor above this speed. Also the Gen4 is smaller and lighter and has the larger chainring at the front.

CX 2020 is out of my budget.

The Simano 8000 would be good then?

 

[Desmond]

Looking at this

Cannondale Trail Neo 2 el mountainbike i grøn - Køb nu

 

[Desmond]

Nevermind. Shimano 8000 apparently doesnt provide much help below 50 rpm

 

[RickBullotta]

Nevermind. Shimano 8000 apparently doesnt provide much help below 50 rpm

huh? couldn’t be more false.

 

[Gary]

I would say that 50-60 rpm cadence is where i'm most comfortable.
Currently, i can only do above 70 rpm for short periods of time.
It will hopefully get better with time, but it might take 1-2 years

don't mean to be rude but may I ask why? What is it that's limiting your leg power/cadence?

 

[Desmond]

don't mean to be rude but may I ask why? What is it that's limiting your leg power/cadence?

Yes of course. Its nerve damage, mostly in the quadriceps muscles. So a lot of muscle waste, because i dont use my leg muscles much. So i need to slowly build muscle mass, and not get nerve pain.

My kness has also become weak, because of the muscle waste, so i get knee pain, especially with a high cadence. Its the repetition that triggers knee pain and inflammation. Saddle high is as it should be, and i dont stretch out my legs/knees when riding.
Its called polyneuropathy.
Its probably the skeletal muscles (inner muscles) i need to strengthen, and i do believe that spinning and not grinding is the best way to do (high rpm), but it will take some time before those muscles are strong, since i'm missing nerves and they wont come back. You cant train the nerves.

Good news about the Shimano. I read it online somewhere with the cadence.

How does the Shimano DU8000 2019 feel compared to the CX?

 

[RickBullotta]

Yes of course. Its nerve damage, mostly in the quadriceps muscles. So a lot of muscle waste, because i dont use my leg muscles much. So i need to slowly build muscle mass, and not get nerve pain.

My kness has also become weak, because of the muscle waste, so i get knee pain, especially with a high cadence. Its the repetition that triggers knee pain and inflammation. Saddle high is as it should be, and i dont stretch out my legs/knees when riding.
Its called polyneuropathy.

Good news about the Shimano. Read it online somewhere.

Have you considered trying a device such as a Compex unit to help build strength and muscle activation? I found it very effective after injury and post-surgical recovery when my leg and glute muscles had atrophied. They are very affordable now, and maybe worth a try?

United Kingdom | Compex Official Site

 

[Gary]

Thanks. That makes a whole load more sense to me now.
Hopefully your power/cadence ability can improve over time.

As for the motor not assisting at low cadences. You probably read early reports/reviews of the E8000.. Originally it wasn't the best at low cadences but over the last 18mths with subsequent firmware updates from Shimano the motor gradually became nicer and nicer to ride (Especailly with respect to assistance, control and power cutting in/out).
Actual assistance level (per mode) is also adjustable via the Steps mobile app. - (And even more so with Stunlocker App)

Ideally try a few different motors before deciding what suits your needs best. They all have their subtle differences. I know I have major preferences for the way some motors assist and simply can't stand some others.

 

[Desmond]

Have you considered trying a device such as a Compex unit to help build strength and muscle activation? I found it very effective after injury and post-surgical recovery when my leg and glute muscles had atrophied. They are very affordable now, and maybe worth a try?

United Kingdom | Compex Official Site

Aah yes, TENS and EMS.
I bought one 6 months ago. It helps with the pain, but i need to active my thigh muscles in a different way. Sometimes when i wake up in the morning my thigh muscles are just completely dead, so i need to activate them. Some brain/muscle kind of activation. I do a couple of Lunges (exercise) and i can feel the muscles working again. Cycling does the same

 

[RickBullotta]

Aah yes, TENS and EMS.
I bought one 6 months ago. It helps with the pain, but i need to active my thigh muscles in a different way. Sometimes when i wake up in the morning my thigh muscles are just completely dead, so i need to activate them. Some brain/muscle kind of activation. I do a couple of Lunges (exercise) and i can feel the muscles working again. Cycling does the same

A number of physical therapists combine the two, using EMS during “real” physical movements to help train the neuromuscular systems. You need to be careful though that you aren’t moving aggressively in the wrong direction when the stim fires! Maybe a professional practitioner could help craft a unique plan for you. Good luck and ride on!

 

[Desmond]

A number of physical therapists combine the two, using EMS during “real” physical movements to help train the neuromuscular systems. You need to be careful though that you aren’t moving aggressively in the wrong direction when the stim fires! Maybe a professional practitioner could help craft a unique plan for you. Good luck and ride on!

I might have overdone it. I'll talk to my physio therapist. Thanks!

 

[Slowroller]

Haibike flyon ......

 

[Desmond]

Haibike flyon ......

I'll start saving up