When in 12 gear (smallest sprocket) and when in trail or turbo whilst also putting my own max power down the chain sometimes skips a few teeth.

[malc101]

I agree my transmission is a 10 S 36 front. I guess the 32 front are for when the assist does not work.
My 11/46 is great but i never use the 11 so i use 13/46.
Why do you use a 10 or 11?

32 up from allows wicked 2mph climbs. Most ppl don’t do those. I think they are mostly trying to keep cadence up.

 

[urastus]

32 up from allows wicked 2mph climbs. Most ppl don’t do those. I think they are mostly trying to keep cadence up.

It's technical climbs for me. Although what I call technical I'm sure the dudes from embn would just power up and over and around and hopping on front or rear wheel . I also use a tuned down version of eco 95% of the time. I also keep cadence up around 80 - 90. I used to be around 60 or so when touring in my youth (shit loads of torque with lots of weight on the bike - I stretched chains like crazy), until I wore my knees out, then I started to learn from dudes who rode with some knowledge.

 

[Gary]

BLEvo reports my average cadence at 65.

65rpm is pretty low. But everyone has their preference. Being comfortable with a wide cadence range is way more valuable though. and higher average cadences are definitely kinder to knackered old knees. although motor assistance does negate that a quite a bit.

Adding 4 teeth to the front ring just moves the chain to a bigger cassette gear.

Yeah. I understand perfectly well how gear ratios work.

No effect on anything assuming you don’t use first gear much.

Optimum gearing should involve choosing an appropriate chainring AND cassette for your fitness, preferred cadence on the gradients and terrain you ride so that you don't run out of gearing at the top or bottom end of the range and also have optimum gear ratio jumps for the cadences and effort you prefer.
for me on an Emtb that's 36x11-36 which I've been running on every Emtb I've owned for the past 3.5 years. The only benefit in lower gearing than that for me would be for longer climbs with the motor off

32 up front allows wicked 2mph climbs. Most ppl don’t do those. I think they are mostly trying to keep cadence up.

Yeah. climbing at 2mph in 36x36 would simply require a very slow cadence. TBF I'd honestly rather just walk than cycle at a lower speed than walking pace for any sustained amount of time. Nothing to do with prefering higher cadences. I Just don't enjoy riding that slowly unless it's just very short super steep sections during a longer climb of varying gradient/technicality

 

[1oldfart]

Well maybe it differs depending on countries/max assist.
In Canada we have 32km/h and with a rear 29x3.0
i could use a 32 front with an 11 but i like my 36 with 13.
it means with 8 shifts 13 to 46 i can do it all.

 

[Alexbn921]

We have some 30% climbs around here so I NEED a 51. My bike also tops out at 28mph so I NEED the 10. running the largest possible ring at 34.

OP you hanger is still probably bent. The straighter it is the better your drivetrain will shift. Precision matters.

 

[pampmyride]

My new ebike came with advice - keep cadence above 70 for best range. Luckily it is displayed....

 

[malc101]

65rpm is pretty low. But everyone has their preference. Being comfortable with a wide cadence range is way more valuable though. and higher average cadences are definitely kinder to knackered old knees. although motor assistance does negate that a quite a bit.

Yeah. I understand perfectly well how gear ratios work.

Optimum gearing should involve choosing an appropriate chainring AND cassette for your fitness, preferred cadence on the gradients and terrain you ride so that you don't run out of gearing at the top or bottom end of the range and also have optimum gear ratio jumps for the cadences and effort you prefer.
for me on an Emtb that's 36x11-36 which I've been running on every Emtb I've owned for the past 3.5 years. The only benefit in lower gearing than that for me would be for longer climbs with the motor off
Yeah. climbing at 2mph in 36x36 would simply require a very slow cadence. TBF I'd honestly rather just walk than cycle at a lower speed than walking pace for any sustained amount of time. Nothing to do with prefering higher cadences. I Just don't enjoy riding that slowly unless it's just very short super steep sections during a longer climb of varying gradient/technicality

Some bodies are not made for high cadence, and I’m one of them. At 6’5 and 230 lbs 65 cadence is about the right speed for me. I ride centuries on the analog bike and can squeeze 60m/6000ft of fire roads out of my Levo. So fitness is not an issue at 65 yrs. I can ride 8-10 hours at my natural cadence but much less at a faster one.

 

[emtbPhil]

Real simple, adjust or ask your shop to adjust your derailleur so you are never on the smallest cog.
It is useless, no Ebike needs 12 S 10 or even 9 is plenty.

Same with cars tbh - why they need a 6 or 7th gear that can do 180mph when the speed limit is 70 is beyond me

Engine effort, economy etc... what are they?

 

[Gary]

Some bodies are not made for high cadence

Almost anyone can train their body to sustain way higher cadences than 65rpm. I'm not sure why you'd think your height and weight would come into it. Age and lack of willingness to adapt I can totally understand.
You simply prefer slower cadences. And that's absolutely fine.

 

[emtbPhil]

On normal mtb trails a reasonably fit/able and not hugely heavy rider simply shouldn't need a 50t cassette sprocket with 250w of extra assistance.

You always crack me up with your optimistic belief that most ebike riders aren't 220+lbs, middle aged, and knackered

 

[malc101]

Almost anyone can train their body to sustain way higher cadences than 65rpm. I'm not sure why you'd think your height and weight would come into it. Age and lack of willingness to adapt I can totally understand.
You simply prefer slower cadences. And that's absolutely fine.

I know what suits me an that’s the way it is. 75 in trail while climbing is typical for me. I’ve played with cadence over the years typically riding 3500-5000 miles on pedal bikes per year. Size does have a bearing on this since you are rotating more mass, like twice as much as those bike dweebs that are too pro to wave .

 

[Gary]

220+lbs, middle aged, and knackered

I'm all 3 of those things just now and still manage high cadences each day easily.

 

[malc101]

I'm all 3 of those things just now and still manage high cadences each day easily.

good for you. I can manage but I don’t like to. At this point I do what I like and what works for me.

 

[malc101]

Hey Gary, you’ve run another thread off the rails. When I look through all other threads you are there on every other post with counterpoints about things. My original statement was that adding four more teeth to the front helps push the chain away from being on 10 or 11 tooth cog.

 

[Gary]

good for you. I can manage but I don’t like to. At this point I do what I like and what works for me.

That's why I said

You simply prefer slower cadences. And that's absolutely fine.

Weighing 230lb has nothing to do with it though unless you're short; and fat is restricting your mobility. And at 6ft5 and fit enough for the mileage you do that seems highly unlikely.

 

[Gary]

Hey Gary, you’ve run another thread off the rails. When I look through all other threads you are there on every other post with counterpoints about things.

And?

 

[emtbPhil]

And?

There’s no place for counterpoints in discussions. When will you learn!

 

[malc101]

There’s no place for counterpoints in discussions. When will you learn!

This thread was about a skipping gear and it ends up with Gary’s fitness. Off to ride my bike.

 

[emtbPhil]

It was about a skipping gear - the mechanical reasons why that happens (limited amount of chain engaged, or wear caused by limited amount of chain engaged) and then the obvious conclusion that if you 're sitting in highest gear all the time you either don't pedal fast enough or your chainring is too small and the ratios are wrong for the speeds you do.

I don't really see a problem with teaching people the reasons behind mechanical failures.

 

[Gary]

This thread was about a skipping gear and it ends up with Gary’s fitness.

Y'know malc. The real irony here is that it was actually you who brought your fitness into the discussion as a counterpoint. Take a read back through the thread and you'll find I haven't actually mentioned my own fitness at all.
But since you seem so interested I'm actually pretty unfit just now due to covid recovery, a lazy AF winter, lack of motivation and weight gain. None of that really affects my preferred pedalling cadence though. Seeing as ability to spin cranks at a certain speed is more a product of pedalling technique and gearing choice than fitness.

Off to ride my bike.

Let's hope it puts you in a better mood.
I've only ridden mine to work and back today. It has a garmin GPS unit on the bars showing cadence so on my ride home I sat at 65rpm for a mile or so just to remind myself what that feels like.

 

[WubbleU]

It has a garmin GPS unit on the bars showing cadence so on my ride home I sat at 65rpm for a mile or so just to remind myself what that feels like.

Nice to hear about your open-minded side

 

[malc101]

Y'know malc. The real irony here is that it was actually you who brought your fitness into the discussion as a counterpoint. Take a read back through the thread and you'll find I haven't actually mentioned my own fitness at all.
But since you seem so interested I'm actually pretty unfit just now due to covid recovery, a lazy AF winter, lack of motivation and weight gain. None of that really affects my preferred pedalling cadence though. Seeing as ability to spin cranks at a certain speed is more a product of pedalling technique and gearing choice than fitness.


Let's hope it puts you in a better mood.
I've only ridden mine to work and back today. It has a garmin GPS unit on the bars showing cadence so on my ride home I sat at 65rpm for a mile or so just to remind myself what that feels like.

Riding bikes always puts us in better moods

 

[WubbleU]

Coming back to OP's question. And setting aside fair comment on cadence and ideal gear ratio. If hanger alignment is ok and chain wear ok, then smallest sprocket can be swapped very cheaply. Not sure if OP knows that it's not integral to the cassette.
For myself, I'll be trying to use those larger sprockets more in the future.

 

[Gary]

Riding bikes always puts us in better moods

that was a quick ride.
Aren't ebikes wonderful?

 

[Gary]

smallest sprocket can be swapped very cheaply.

HG yes
Microspline not quite so cheaply
and XD not at all .

OP hasn't replied since starting the thread over a week ago so at this point the bulk of the thread has been pretty much speculation and waffle.
lots and lots of waffle.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

that was a quick ride.

Would have been faster if he peddled quicker

 

[urastus]

This thread was about a skipping gear and it ends up with Gary’s fitness. Off to ride my bike.

well, no. I was the one to bring up cadence. The original poster is riding a high geared bike in top gear still putting in his own "max power" and still getting assistance. It was the first thing that stood out to me is that his cadence must be way down at a relatively low ground speed to be still getting assistance with that high gearing. I wouldn't be surprised if his cadence was less than 20. That is a lot of torque on the smallest gear with the least number of teeth engaged. Everything has a limit. If he didn't know about that, then a simple change in cadence would be a win win for him, the motor, and definitely the drive train. Or he could have been riding trials?

 

[Swissrider]

I read that a derailleur hanger checker is the most useful tool that you haven’t got. Without one, you have no chance of making sure that your derailleur is straight and even a slight bend causes all sorts of shifting problems. I check mine regularly now and it’s surprising how often the derailleur can get knocked out of alignment. However, I agree with many above that a chain skipping teeth is usually a wear problem, not surprising on the smallest cog and contrary to some of the posts above, I think one uses this cog quite a lot, especially on the flat or slightly downhill.

 

[BadgerHun7er]

HG yes
Microspline not quite so cheaply
and XD not at all .

OP hasn't replied since starting the thread over a week ago so at this point the bulk of the thread has been pretty much speculation and waffle.
lots and lots of waffle.

Guys, I have been following this post with interest as I always get the same issue when I put a new chain on a worn but still useable cassette (approx 300-600 miles) as I usually use 3 chains per cassette and swap the chains very early so they are all slightly worn together, all medium wear together etc. As my local riding involves a lot of flat road sections alongside non emtb friends I use the 12th gear a lot. Has anyone seen where to buy replacement 12th gear sprocket for
Shimano CS-M7100 SLX 12-Speed Cassette 10-51T
I'm struggling to find it but have seen this option of replacing the 10tooth sprocket reg on here.

 

[Gary]

Order it as a spare part through any authorised Shimano dealer/Service centre

still useable cassette (approx 300-600 miles)

When your smallest sprockets wear past a certain point it stands to reason they will no longer be useable with a new chain. so at that point STOP trying to run new chains on it.

Personally in your situation I'd just ditch 12 speed altogether, fit a more suitable gearing range for the riding you do then let it all wear together instead of swapping/rotating chains. But look after it better. incl always shifting as smoothly as you can (By simply doing this I get 10 to 20 times the mileage you do out of your cassettes)