When do you know you've outgrown your bike

[33red]

When it comes to a lot of things the internet is your enemy, too much information and opinions! I have been convinced a few times that my bikes need this or that upgrade. Case in point, I spent the last 2 weeks at Les Gets are Livigno at bike parks on a 2002 Specialized Enduro which I had written off as not fit for purpose after buying a Levo. Well I rode the Levo 2hrs one afternoon and put it away as I was having too much fun on my old bike with it clearly in my head that it was fast but limited. So on the last day I rented an all singing and dancing carbon Santa Cruz and whilst it was good it wasn't a massive improvement that I was expecting.

If you can rent or trial some bikes then it's worth spending a couple of hundred to work out what you don't need as much as you do. Gary makes this point regularly albeit a bit bluntly, with enough time and skills you can ride anything anywhere! Modern bikes in my case are so good at covering up lack of skills and fitness that I have thought with a better bike I would be faster but it is about the fun not the speed at times.

Why are you asking people to think?
They are renting smart phone
they do not need to think
older than 2 is too old
they sure do not want a 2017 proven reliable bike
they want flashy mirrors
oh and aps
it s the new drug

 

[knut7]

I have a Trek Powerfly 4, which I bought about 4 or 5 months ago without realising how obsessed I would become with this hobby. The trouble is that I am now appreciating the differences between cross country and downhill. I probably sit somewhere in between with what I want to do. I am very unlikely to become either an out and out downhill-er or a competitor. I also now realise that my bike is more of a cross country bike than an enduro one but changing out the forks and the wheels to longer travel and wider rims seems to be a lot of money. Another bike, something like a Specialised Levo could be more appropriate for the riding I'm currently doing. There is no way I am the fastest but I'm not the slowest either. I'm considering enrolling for a couple of hours 1:1 coaching so this is something I may ask the intructor but in the meantime what is your opinion. I suspect my limited abilities would make it difficult to justify buying a new bike but one can but dream. Should my Trek Powerfly be good enough for my modest aspirations or am I on to something?

Al

I'm guessing it's a 2019 bike? Looking at the specs, there are a few components that keeps this bike from being what I consider a proper trail bike. The Suntour XCR 34 fork can't really keep up when you get up to some speed. Replacing it should do a lot for your bike. And you could consider swapping for a 140mm fork, possibly.

I would want to change the tyres, at least the front tyre. Something a bit heavier and with better grip than the Bonty XR3. I usually go for Maxxis Minion or Schwalbe Magic Mary. In my local bike park I definitely wouldn't want a 2.8" tyre. I prefer 2.6, and it should fit most bikes that come with 2.35 tyres.

You mention brakes, and I can see why. The Tektro M275 are a bit heavy to operate and they lack a bit of bite. There are lot's of brakes to chose from, I like the Shimano MT520 dual caliper brakes, but there are nicer brakes if you're willing to spend.

And it lacks a dropper seatpost, that's a must have IMO.

Apart from that, the bike looks okay. The Deluxe RL shock is decent, the Deore drivetrain with an 11-42t cassette will do. Geometry looks okay, the long chainstays should make for a safe and stable ride on the descents. Head angle is 66.9 in the Low setting, fit a 140mm fork and it's down to ~66.5, not too bad, and the bottom bracket height should still be okay.

Is it worth it though, one tyre, dropper post, fork and brakes does cost a bit. If you can sell the Powerfly for a decent sum and buy a new discounted 2019 model, it may be worth swapping. If you need a burlier bike then rebuilding the old one may not make you happy.

 

[Doomanic]

Dropper post, £119.95;Brand-X Ascend 120mm & 150mm Dropper Seatpost | Chain Reaction Cycles
Deore 4 pot brake, £62.95 each; Shimano MT501 4-piston Brake Lever+Brake Kit Black, Bikeinn
Forks, RS Yari 29er 140mm travel, £474.95 (less 10% British Cycling discount and 3% casback from Quidco); RockShox Yari RC 29 140mm - Black

 

[JoeBlow]

I take the point about new forks etc. but as I mentioned previously by the time you've stumped up for forks, rear shock and wider rims, tyre etc. you may as well consider a new bike. Thanks everyone for your input. The concensus seems to be that my bike is good enough for what I do i.e. my limited capabilities and deep down I know that to be true. Indeed I bought it on a set budget with that in mind but If I was buying now I would be looking at bikes with more travel and wider rims. I can't really justify changing after just 4 months, the divorce settlement would break me. Note to self: Must stop drooling at other bikes.

Al

 

[JoeBlow]

To Knut7: Thank you. You seem to be getting what I'm saying and you've put into words the specific issues that I have noticed in a positive and helpful manner. I have fitted a dropper post so I agree with you on that. I don't know how anyone manages without. I've also fitted a Maxxis Shorty tyre to the front wheel which is much better. At this time perhaps just a better front fork will be my best option.

To Doomanic: Thanks for the links

Al

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

I think the short answer is, yes, buy another bike if you want one. Why not?!

I went less travel on my previous normal bike for no particular reason other than I wanted that bike. My levo has more travel than that and I bought it because it's the one I liked and it rode the best out of them all that I tried. Travel is one of the last reasons for buying a bike.

 

[Doomanic]

There's a few people who will argue against wider tyres being better. If I were you, I'd stick a DHR2 in standard width on the rear. It will be a big improvement over the Bontys.

 

[JoeBlow]

I think the short answer is, yes, buy another bike if you want one. Why not?!

I went less travel on my previous normal bike for no particular reason other than I wanted that bike. My levo has more travel than that and I bought it because it's the one I liked and it rode the best out of them all that I tried. Travel is one of the last reasons for buying a bike.

Travel is one of the last reasons for buying a bike ???? Love it. If money were no object I would buy another bike. It's just the little things I'm beginning to notice but I'm sure I can manage for a while longer.

Al

 

[JoeBlow]

There's a few people who will argue against wider tyres being better. If I were you, I'd stick a DHR2 in standard width on the rear. It will be a big improvement over the Bontys.

Yes that's an affordable upgrade that I will probably do. Cheers. Someone else at the FOD trail centre suggested the same. I was thinking of paying for some coaching but I think I may do this instead.

Al

 

[P580C]

You want the Levo. Life is very short. Buy the Levo, enjoy the Levo.

 

[Doomanic]

I was thinking of paying for some coaching

If you can afford to do both you won't regret it. A group session is usually about £60 and one to one coaching with Katy Kurd is £90.

 

[Dax]

Coaching is definitely the next step.

People get way too hung up on kit, because it's easy to throw money at that, than admit they need to learn. Extra travel and slacker geometry is basically an insurance policy against crappy technique, Ben Deakin rode whistler on a Walmart bike in the video above...most people commenting on this thread could not and may have a big crash in the process.

Looking at your specific question, none of the official stuff and really not much of the unofficial stuff at fod needs more than 140mm, a kenevo is definitely overkill. You don't necessarily need wider tyres, you may need different ones or need to change the pressure (2.35 high rollers are my default tyre for fod, they were wide in 2007).

 

[JoeBlow]

Coaching and then a new tyre or new tyre and then the coaching? To be fair I don't think my limited abilities warrant the cost of a Kenevo never mind the difficulty of the FOD trails.

 

[Doomanic]

I'd say coaching before tyres.

You also need to get out and ride more, which would be better done after some coaching. There's a few of us that hit the FoD most weekends, you're welcome to tag along any time.

 

[JoeBlow]

I'd say coaching before tyres.

You also need to get out and ride more, which would be better done after some coaching. There's a few of us that hit the FoD most weekends, you're welcome to tag along any time.

Too late, I've just purchased the tyre. It wasn't as much as I was anticipating so I may still arrange some coaching. Thanks for the offer to join you. Unfortunately most of my weekends are taken up with other activities and if I'm honest I find it a little crowded for my tastes at weekends. I'm retired so I try and ride at least twice a week.

Al

 

[Doomanic]

I find it a little crowded for my tastes at weekends

It's not crowded where we ride. It's not often that we ride the marked trails.

Unfortunately most of my weekends are taken up with other activities

No worries, it's an open offer so if you find yourself at a loose end just give me a shout.

 

[JoeBlow]

It's not crowded where we ride. It's not often that we ride the marked trails.
No worries, it's an open offer so if you find yourself at a loose end just give me a shout.

That's worth knowing. I may take you up on your offer when I have a free weekend. As long as you don't mind biking with an old fart. I'm 70. I've done a couple of the "off piste" trails like Dowies and the other day I rode some of the old Enduro competition trail but I did not enjoy that at all. It was far too overgrown for my tastes and one of the overhanging branches nearly had me off the bike. I like fast and flowy.

Al

 

[steve_sordy]

If you keep flatting your tyres, dinging your rims, bottoming your suspension, snapping your chain, breaking your frame, then probably you need a stronger bike and/or components. You may also need some skills courses! And also you'd need to do some reading on how to set up the bike to minimise the above perils.

 

[Gary]

I bow to your superior knowledge but 160mm travel and 2.6" tyres sounds more "enduro" than mine. So what in your opinion is a more enduro fucused bike?

160mm travel or 2.6" tyres does not necessarily make a bike enduro focused. It's mostly geometry that does.
(Levos are 150mm travel BTW and pretty much any modern mtb can run 2.6" tyres - not that I ever would)
Enduro is a gravity based race discipline. usually held over a weekend with multiple timed stages the rider has to pedal their way to the start of. These can be super technical, steep, fast, rough, gnarly stages... or pedally trail centre/bikepark style riding (or a mix). Pretty much depends on the race organiser and the race venue.
ergo. The perfect bike for #Enduro is a very capable and efficient handling descending biased bike which also needs to pedal well (sprints and climbs).
The levo is more of an all round trail bike with lacklustre middle of the road (safe) geometry.

After reading tons of hype and reviews I recently got to ride a couple of 2019 Levos (a L and an XL, one Carbon the other Alu). The motors both felt nice (smooth, controlled and powerful), componentry and suspension was decent but I have to say I found the actual ride of both entirely un inspiring, a little sluggish and cumbersome. They both felt much heavier than I'd expected from all the weight saving hype Spesh pushed out at release.
(I'm not saying they were bad bikes. They'd have been fine to ride any trail on.. .but I wouldn't personally ever want one)

You want a Levo though. Get a Levo. You don't have to justify it by categorising your riding as the same category the Levo is designated towards. you can ride any style of bike anywhere you please.

Personally I'd stick headphones in next time you go to your local trail centre. Sounds like the folk there talk a lot of pish.
My local trail centre is Glentress and you get a lot of folk like that there too. On the official signposted graded trails there my favourite bike to ride is a 100mm 26" wheel 4X hardtail with street tyres and a dropper for the climbing.

Choose whatever makes you happy.

Life's too short.

 

[JoeBlow]

Well it turns out that I have dinged the rear wheel, probably on my last run where I came off the bike. I only noticed it when I was packing the bike to take to the shop to have a high roller tyre fitted. They are going to try and fix it but think it may be too bad. I've told them that if they have to change the wheel to fit a wider rim. Have to wait and see now.

To Gary: That's the problem. Loads of people talk pish both on the trail and on here. The difficulty I have as a novice is spotting it.

 

[Gary]

If you keep flatting your tyres, dinging your rims, bottoming your suspension, snapping your chain, breaking your frame, then probably you need a stronger bike and/or components.

Nope.
If you keep flatting your tyres and dinging your rims you are simply not running enough pressure. (tougher casings and inserts can allow lower pressures without dinging rims, but only slightly... it's still ultimately down to air pressure to support a tyre and stop it bottoming hard on the rim on rocks etc.)
Bottoming your suspension too easily also means you are running too low pressure/spring rate
Snapping chains is generally down to one of two things poor maintenance or clumsy gear shifts.

Who's broken their frame?

 

[JoeBlow]

To be clear I am just using "enduro" as a means of describing the type of riding I like i.e. not strictly cross country and not out and out down hill. I have no intention of entering any competitions. I also accept fully that the limitations are down to my lack of skills and nothing to do with my bike, but it would seem a little misleading to suggest that more travel, wider tyres and deep tread would not offer any advantages to the style of riding I do. I fitted a more aggressive tyre to the front and felt an immediate improvement.

To Gary: considering the tone of many of your posts perhaps you could explain to me what makes your opinion more valid than that of the people I meet at the trail. Just maybe you are the one talking pish I'm being serious, not trying to be confrontational by the way.

 

[steve_sordy]

Nope.
If you keep flatting your tyres and dinging your rims you are simply not running enough pressure. (tougher casings and inserts can allow lower pressures without dinging rims, but only slightly... it's still ultimately down to air pressure to support a tyre and stop it bottoming hard on the rim on rocks etc.)
Bottoming your suspension too easily also means you are running too low pressure/spring rate
Snapping chains is generally down to one of two things poor maintenance or clumsy gear shifts.

Who's broken their frame?

I know all that, which is why I also said "You may also need some skills courses! And also you'd need to do some reading on how to set up the bike to minimise the above perils".

As for mentioning a broken frame; I wasn't saying that anyone had broken their frame, but giving it as an example of someone who was maybe taking a bike beyond it's design limit (it was what the OP asked for), or was just a rider in need of some skills courses.

 

[Gary]

what makes your opinion more valid than that of the people I meet at the trail. Just maybe you are the one talking pish

I haven't given my "opinion". Merely factual information.

You continue enjoying imitating Enduro racers on your e bike if that's what makes you happy. I hear it's become a pretty common theme down the trail centres and as a bonus I'm sure it gives folk oodles more pish to spout in the cafe

 

[Zimmerframe]

componentry and suspension was decent but I have to say I found the actual ride of both entirely un inspiring, a little sluggish and cumbersome. They both felt much heavier than I'd expected

I would so have loved to share a beer and chat when you were test driving for the right lady ...

 

[JoeBlow]

I haven't given my "opinion". Merely factual information.

You continue enjoying imitating Enduro racers on your e bike if that's what makes you happy. I hear it's become a pretty common theme down the trail centres and as a bonus I'm sure it gives folk oodles more pish to spout in the cafe

You continue enjoying imitating Enduro racers on your e bike if that's what makes you happy. I hear it's become a pretty common theme down the trail centres and as a bonus I'm sure it gives folk oodles more pish to spout in the cafe [/QUOTE]
That's both dismissive and insulting. What is your problem? You might know a lot about mountain biking but your manners are seriously lacking. Or is this just your forum persona? Give me a break I'm new to all this.

 

[Gary]

I'm only messing about mate. (hence the smiley)
if you can't handle me taking the piss back probably don't goad me with posts like your previous one.

This is exactly how I'd reply face to face. While smiling.

Buy whatever bike you want.

 

[JoeBlow]

I didn't realise I had goaded you. You would help yourself if you took the trouble to read what it is you respond to. I wasn't looking for anyone's justification to buy another bike and you appear to be the only one to interpret it this way. Just chill out a bit there is no need to be so aggressive, dismissive and insulting. You may be the nicest person in the world but that is not how you are coming across and for what it's worth I'm handling it fine thank you.

 

[Binhill1]

What ever made you think I was looking for either approval or justification? Opinion and advice is all I am after. At the trail centre I get told that I need more travel on my suspension and wider tyres, which necessitates new wheels, for the riding I am doing. I'm looking for a wider viewpoint. Justifying a new bike so soon would be hard to do but similarly updating components may be even less cost effective and a little bit of me says my current bike is capable of handling anything I am capable of throwing at it anytime now or in the near future.

Al

Maybe you could go to somewhere that hires a better bike a Trail centre somewhere Glentress for example hire Ebikes so if anything near you that does offer this you would know your options. But beware you will get sucked in by the vibe.

 

[JoeBlow]

Maybe you could go to somewhere that hires a better bike a Trail centre somewhere Glentress for example hire Ebikes so if anything near you that does offer this you would know your options. But beware you will get sucked in by the vibe.

I don't NEED a new bike and the problem with trying out a higher spec. bike is that I will then want one. The point I was trying to make is that as I have got a little more competent I have started to notice one or two things that could be better on the bike. Now obviously many of these failings are down to my lack of experience but some, the braking for example, I feel sure would benefit from new components. In essence and for those who have not understood, how many upgrades are too many and when does a new bike become a better option? This seems to have sparked off a series of abrupt, inappropriate responses that have totally missed the point, it's an academic exercise. Forums don't you just love them?

Al