What's faster on gnarly, tight DH trails? E-Bike or Enduro?

[leftside]

I'll answer my own question. Last night I beat my previous best time on my Capra from almost 2 years ago by 1 min 6 seconds when riding the Decoy. 7th Secret is a tight, twisty trail with a decent amount of gnarly sections. You'd have thought a lighter Enduro bike with 27.5" wheels would have been more suited.

Disclaimer: I'm riding more these days, with longer distances since I've had the Decoy. So perhaps I'm getting better. I'm also not totally knackered from climbing when I get to the trailhead - so this probably helps. The Decoy is a DH machine - the Shimino motor/weight gives it an amazing centre of gravity and inspires confidence when the trails get steep and gnarly.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

Non-Ebikes are definitely faster on the downhills without a doubt.

 

[Ace Freely]

Non-Ebikes are definitely faster on the downhills without a doubt.

Do you have proof?

Ace

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Dang, I have to leave lockdown and get me some popcorn for this one!

 

[Zimmerframe]

I don't want to pee on anyones bonfire ..

But .. the "bike version" is 1.09km and 171m drop.

The E-bike version is 0.78km and 106m drop.

So whomever made the e-bike version of the segment, didn't try to make it the same as the normal one.

You could look at the normal one and make a new version and add "full" to the name. Or just call it "7th secret" as it only shows up to e-bikers so I'm not sure why people but e-bike in the segment names.

If you want to check your time against the "bike" version :

Edit your strava activity and change it to "bike" and change who can see it to "private". Then your e-bike results won't show on the bike results and steal everyones KOM climbs, but you will be able to check your actual time against the "bike" segment.

 

[R120]

Back to back ridden by a top rider on the vast majority of enduro/dh trails the analog bike will be faster, whilst the extra weight gives more initial momentum, it also hinders in the tight stuff.

However for many riders an EMTB may be faster, simply because a lot of riders find that they get out riding more on their EMTB, and start progressing more, and using their skill level and start riding faster and better than they did before.

I found this, however I also found that when I switched back to an analog bike, I was even faster again on that on trail where the motor offered no advantage, simply because my skill set had progressed on the EMTB, and when I went back to the analog I was able to ride it faster that I had pre EMTB.

 

[#lazy]

I feel quicker on DH sections on the ebike and that’s probably due to the extra weight and stability ! Riding smoother and lighter will also help !

 

[outerlimits]

Sometimes I look at people and think “what is going on in there head”

Ebikes are crappier and slower going down hill. Your data proves this, if you believe Strava is in any way accurate.

???

 

[Gary]

The two segments are completely different lengths.

Meaningless data = meaningless

 

[#lazy]

I’d like to see the average times of ten runs on both bike , then you will see which is faster for that rider !

 

[OlaGB]

Myself, i noticed i cut 15-20sek of a 4:30min singletrack «downhill» trail (as in not a park made trail, and no pedaling what so ever.) through the woods, going from a Rocky Mountain Instinct BC over to my 900E.

I dont believe the 900E is quicker for a pro rider, but definently not much slower.
For my level, the 900E feels safer and more calm through rough terrain due to the extra weight. I think this is the reason i am quicker on it. Less scary, feels more in control basicly.

 

[leftside]

Myself, i noticed i cut 15-20sek of a 4:30min singletrack «downhill» trail (as in not a park made trail, and no pedaling what so ever.) through the woods, going from a Rocky Mountain Instinct BC over to my 900E.

I dont believe the 900E is quicker for a pro rider, but definently not much slower.
For my level, the 900E feels safer and more calm through rough terrain due to the extra weight. I think this is the reason i am quicker on it. Less scary, feels more in control basicly.

Same with the Decoy

 

[leftside]

I don't want to pee on anyones bonfire ..

But .. the "bike version" is 1.09km and 171m drop.

The E-bike version is 0.78km and 106m drop.

So whomever made the e-bike version of the segment, didn't try to make it the same as the normal one.

You could look at the normal one and make a new version and add "full" to the name. Or just call it "7th secret" as it only shows up to e-bikers so I'm not sure why people but e-bike in the segment names.

If you want to check your time against the "bike" version :

Edit your strava activity and change it to "bike" and change who can see it to "private". Then your e-bike results won't show on the bike results and steal everyones KOM climbs, but you will be able to check your actual time against the "bike" segment.

Interesting - you have a keen eye! I edited the strava activity and changed it to "bike". I still set a bunch of new PR's on the DH sections, but indeed I only equaled my previous best time on 7th Secret.

Indeed strange why the new e-bike segment wasn't created the same as the old. I might have to fix that...

 

[leftside]

Back to back ridden by a top rider on the vast majority of enduro/dh trails the analog bike will be faster, whilst the extra weight gives more initial momentum, it also hinders in the tight stuff.

However for many riders an EMTB may be faster, simply because a lot of riders find that they get out riding more on their EMTB, and start progressing more, and using their skill level and start riding faster and better than they did before.

I found this, however I also found that when I switched back to an analog bike, I was even faster again on that on trail where the motor offered no advantage, simply because my skill set had progressed on the EMTB, and when I went back to the analog I was able to ride it faster that I had pre EMTB.

To be honest, I think you are right. I'm going to bring out the Capra again this weekend and compare times. Can I still climb?

 

[leftside]

Sometimes I look at people and think “what is going on in there head”

Ebikes are crappier and slower going down hill. Your data proves this, if you believe Strava is in any way accurate.

???

Having re-read the stats... it appears I'm slightly quicker on the Decoy vs the Capra, but it could well be because I've been riding a lot lately. On straight downhill gnarly sections I still feel the Decoy is quicker (for me), but agree for better riders this might not be the case.

 

[leftside]

And before I post on here again, I'll make sure I'm comparing apples to apples (i.e. the segment's are not just called the same, but actually have the same length). Still, it got me thinking which of my bikes are faster on the gnarly DH sections. For Capra vs Decoy, I'm still giving the nod to the Decoy (for me).

I also wonder what the future will bring for e-bikes... Exciting times for sure.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Surely, the extra weight of an eMTB must produce a different dynamic in tyre behaviour in braking and cornering traction - as well as FS suspension motion agility. Seeing as this added weight has no downside at climbing, we’re arriving fresh at the start of the descends - so that too may have a bearing. I distinctly remember my very first downhill test run on my unfamiliar brand-new eMTB Enduro, I was thinking “hmm, this is different... I’m already going faster than I had planned, or thought I should... coasting momentum that keeps on building is weird... but oddly feels stable enough, so might as well...”
I’m no racer so I don’t time my runs, but my cheeks hurt - from smiling too much.

Whether or not a heavier eMTB will translate to faster lap times will depend on a particular rider’s ability to put its unique behaviour to good use - provided there are track features that would allow the rider to. I can only guess that - sometimes it’ll be yes, but sometimes no.

 

[Pdoz]

2 years ago I spent a day chasing my daughter down the same intermediate " flow" track at Thredbo ( australia) - she was very much learning at that stage , riding my 2017 norco optic 7.2 (130 mm forks) and I was on a 2018 giant full e pro (140 mm forks) . Mid way through the day she reached the stage where I could just keep up with her so we swapped bikes for a run - she left me for dead on the emtb - especially through the rougher sections.

Now, this has absolutely no relevance to decent riders on gnarly tracks , but it opened my eyes to how the extra sprung mass of the Emtb +/- the better spec suspension sucked up things that left the little norco flexing and bouncing like a sad packed of 2 minute noodles. At least that's my excuse for getting humiliated by a 14 yo girl

Now she rides a scott genius - no comparison. I'd love to ride an emtb that could let me keep up with her.....

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

Do you have proof?

Ace

Yeah, I once forgot to change my activity type on Strava from Ebike to normal bike when I did some laps at my local....and I beat all my DH segments by some margin and even got KOM's. Obviously I deleted the KOM

I did a 1:25 on my normal bike which was a smooth run, no pedaling out of corners and popping of features for a bit of fun. Only could do a 1:31 with all my might on the eeb.

 

[MrSimmo]

I found I was around 10% quicker on an ebike (demo 2019 Levo 500wh in turbo) than my Enduro bike (SB6C) for all riding including steep dh trails with drops/jumps. The differences for me were:

- I could smash through roots etc where as on the SB6C I had to pick my line more accurately. For a non pro biker, this must have made a difference. Ebike felt more like a full dh rig in terms of point and shoot with weight.

- When peddling was needed, to pick up speed out of tight turns, the ebike did that faster than my legs could alone.


I suspect it really varies depending on which ebike and which Enduro bike are compared. The lightweight ebikes probably arent quicker at least in my mind.