What is the perfect EMTB?

[Mteam]

Particularly the lightweights seem to be most afflicted on trail rides.

Disagree - I notice the speed limiter much less on my trek fuel exe than my bosch cx gen 4 powered wild fs.

Thr speed limiter isnt an issue at all on the trek.

 

[Charliep]

There is only one answer keep the heckler and buy a bullet perfect combo for all trials thank me later!

 

[michael.kozera]

over the years of building many e-bikes, i believe that i have built the ultimate e-bike. and what ive built, no one has even come close IMO.

-BBSHD (1500w) motor
-1,600wh (1.6kwh) battery , (126 samsung-E 3500 cells, aranged in a 14S9P 52v pack)
-BMS is a 40A 52v with thermal cutoff.
-230mm rear travel (fox) with titanium spring
-203mm front travel (rockshox)
-220mm front rotor, 200mm rear, quad piston Avid brakes
-100mm dropper post
-27.5 FLOW rims, with johnnywtts 2.8" e-bike tires
-triple LED projector style lights (45w total) with triple horns
-11s drive
- comfort gel seat and gel grips
-62lb's (28kg) total weight
- aprox 90 km/hr top speed
-range as short as 50km as far as 400km's


the only thing i would change if i was to do it agian would be maybe make it a 29" instead of 27.5, or perhaps a mullet. and perhaps a larger battery as 1,600wh can get me 400km's of range, but sometimes when im riding like an ape, im getting under 50km's, so i think 2-3,000wh would be ideal, but then you adding more weight tho....

perhaps making it carbon would bring the weight down, but 28kg is very light considering the specs.

-------------------------------------------------------

now if you a weight weenie, and a bike has to be light weight, well then i believe ive also made the ultimate light weight ebike, at 15kg and 700wh battery with a 800w motor

29er

130mm in the rear and 140mm in the front.

200mm front and rear brakes

only thing i would change would be to add a larger battery, 700wh is plenty as ive gone over 300km's once on a single charge but i dont think i can physically fit any more batteries inside that frame, its pretty maxed out haha.

 

[jgusta]

There isn't one

This!

So, back up ebike is your best answer especially if ride regularly/weekly. My ebike down about 2-3 months/year at least waiting for replacement parts and what not. If fully dedicated e-biker (not riding regular bikes much at all anymore) than back up bike the ticket. I am on regular bike full time now over past 6 weeks and it sucks, especially as I bounce back from Covid.

 

[jgusta]

This!

So, back up ebike is your best answer especially if ride regularly/weekly. My ebike down about 2-3 months/year at least waiting for replacement parts and what not. If fully dedicated e-biker (not riding regular bikes much at all anymore) than back up bike the ticket. I am on regular bike full time now over past 6 weeks and it sucks, especially as I bounce back from Covid.

22’ Levo Turbo or Kenevo SL on closeout now would be my recommendation. Both 20% off.

 

[dewbage]

Very true!
At the end it's the best compromise which you will buy.

Ideal for me personally would be:
- 150/160 travel
- 750wH battery
- 60 to 90nm
- no more than 18kg
- powerful, light and reliable motor

Hopefully battery tech will develop further, so we can have lighter battery packs, which would be a real blast.

New Orbea wild gets close to your specs at the 20kg range

 

[VWsurfbum]

over the years of building many e-bikes, i believe that i have built the ultimate e-bike. and what ive built, no one has even come close IMO.

-BBSHD (1500w) motor
-1,600wh (1.6kwh) battery , (126 samsung-E 3500 cells, aranged in a 14S9P 52v pack)
-BMS is a 40A 52v with thermal cutoff.
-230mm rear travel (fox) with titanium spring
-203mm front travel (rockshox)
-220mm front rotor, 200mm rear, quad piston Avid brakes
-100mm dropper post
-27.5 FLOW rims, with johnnywtts 2.8" e-bike tires
-triple LED projector style lights (45w total) with triple horns
-11s drive
- comfort gel seat and gel grips
-62lb's (28kg) total weight
- aprox 90 km/hr top speed
-range as short as 50km as far as 400km's


the only thing i would change if i was to do it agian would be maybe make it a 29" instead of 27.5, or perhaps a mullet. and perhaps a larger battery as 1,600wh can get me 400km's of range, but sometimes when im riding like an ape, im getting under 50km's, so i think 2-3,000wh would be ideal, but then you adding more weight tho....

perhaps making it carbon would bring the weight down, but 28kg is very light considering the specs.

-------------------------------------------------------

now if you a weight weenie, and a bike has to be light weight, well then i believe ive also made the ultimate light weight ebike, at 15kg and 700wh battery with a 800w motor

29er

130mm in the rear and 140mm in the front.

200mm front and rear brakes

only thing i would change would be to add a larger battery, 700wh is plenty as ive gone over 300km's once on a single charge but i dont think i can physically fit any more batteries inside that frame, its pretty maxed out haha.

Wow that tracer is a beast!
I cant see the motor in the Scott? is it a hub drive?

 

[michael.kozera]

Wow that tracer is a beast!
I cant see the motor in the Scott? is it a hub drive?

a very small hub-drive yes. ultimate stealth ebike build.

the battery, bms, and controller are in the frame. both the bms and controller are attached on this aluminum cooling plate, the plate is also the access port for the battery.

 

[VWsurfbum]

a very small hub-drive yes. ultimate stealth ebike build.

the battery, bms, and controller are in the frame. both the bms and controller are attached on this aluminum cooling plate, the plate is also the access port for the battery.

Thats awesome.

 

[JW427]

Trek Rail... is a very good bike, my 9.7 is a lovely ride the range is awesome, the Bosch motor is near on silent and the power delivery is very satisfying ooooh the surge up the hills is vey addictive if a certain Spesh rider we know was on here he would push your mind towards the Kenevo bikes

Your more than welcome to come try my Trek Rail out around here, Langdon hills is a good proving ground.

 

[VWsurfbum]

Trek Rail... is a very good bike, my 9.7 is a lovely ride the range is awesome, the Bosch motor is near on silent and the power delivery is very satisfying ooooh the surge up the hills is vey addictive if a certain Spesh rider we know was on here he would push your mind towards the Kenevo bikes

Your more than welcome to come try my Trek Rail out around here, Langdon hills is a good proving ground.

Oh he's on here and we have lots of messages with him and Mr. Stump trying to convince me to get an Audi.

 

[JW427]

Oh he's on here and we have lots of messages with him and Mr. Stump trying to convince me to get an Audi.

 

[Doomanic]

the Bosch motor is near on silent

Have you tried riding with it switched on yet?

 

[JW427]

Have you tried riding with it switched on yet?

Riding with other E-bikers and their motors does drown out most thing, and silent hum of the Bosch

 

[Stihldog]

Some day I’m gonna post some criticism of the Bosch CX Gen4 motor. Whenever that happens. My Rail 9.7 was the first through the LBS in 2019 so it may have got some extra attention at the factory. New and un-tried products are always risky and all I could do was ask questions and research as best as I could. So far so good. But with the amount of upgrades I’ve since added it’s becoming difficult to justify a new bike/tank.

 

[Dave_B]

you rode my Rail Ian. I’m surprised you don’t have one already with all your crazy purple bits on……

 

[Dave_B]

You could buy a lower spec Rail with the larger battery and swap out all your bling from the Heckler and sell the Heckler as frame only.

 

[Dave_B]

But for comedy value, buy a Spesh. Just imagine you Dave and Tonksy bombing round on the same bike…. Will be like the old days when we all had Hecklers

 

[Doomanic]

At least with three bikes in the group two of them will always be able to go out.

 

[jgusta]

Trek Rail... is a very good bike, my 9.7 is a lovely ride the range is awesome, the Bosch motor is near on silent and the power delivery is very satisfying ooooh the surge up the hills is vey addictive if a certain Spesh rider we know was on here he would push your mind towards the Kenevo bikes

Your more than welcome to come try my Trek Rail out around here, Langdon hills is a good proving ground.

Rail/Bosch4 definitely needs some revisions by Trek and Bosch. Bike does ride nice when working, problem is, it is failure waiting to happen (motor/electronics/motor mounting hardware). I personally think the Rail is not up to snuff to be pushed hard. If lightweight or timid rider like my buddy is on his, then likely fine only

 

[Dave_B]

it is failure waiting to happen (motor/electronics/motor mounting hardware).

Care to elaborate?

 

[Doomanic]

I personally think the Rail is not up to snuff to be pushed hard.

That may be your opinion. The thing about opinions is that they're like arseholes; everyone has one and the often stink.

 

[jgusta]

That may be your opinion. The thing about opinions is that they're like arseholes; everyone has one and the often stink.

That may be your opinion. The thing about opinions is that they're like arseholes; everyone has one and the often stink.

Not opinion, but user experience rather in past +1.5 years. If no issues, keep hammering and don’t sweat it

 

[jgusta]

Care to elaborate?

18-19 months use…3 new drive units, 2 new head units, one replaced main frame, one replaced rear end and one complete replaced Rail pending (waiting +6 weeks so far) and another drive unit (4th) with thicker internal mounting bracket for prior Rail.

Just my “opinion”, so not worth reading or considering however.

 

[Dave_B]

Interesting. I’ve had a few niggles with mine which I hope are ironed out now.

 

[jgusta]

Interesting. I’ve had a few niggles with mine which I hope are ironed out now.

Me too. Rail is definitely a fun bike to ride of course. Just hope Trek/Bosch gets things sorted out so bike can be handle some loads/use mostly mechanically/electrically trouble free in the future. I know I miss mine. Feels like forever without it. Regular bike is just not as fun

 

[Doomanic]

2700 hard miles in all weather conditions on mine. A couple of issues over that time but nothing that stopped me hammering it every ride. The motor failed in the bloody garage though!

 

[jgusta]

2700 hard miles in all weather conditions on mine. A couple of issues over that time but nothing that stopped me hammering it every ride. The motor failed in the bloody garage though!

Nice! FWIW, no motor failure here, just the chincy motor internal mounting bracket that kept coming loose despite new hardware and complete drive units over past 1.5 years. The bolt heads of motor bracket would eventually shear off despite Trek installing replacement motors and checking torque periodically. Cause of loosening of bolts from the thin metal plate, the wiring to lower battery plate would get ripped out and crushed as a result, what caused my most recent failure with bike being dead since.

Along with new complete 22’ Rail pending arrival, Trek/Bosch plans to replace the former drive unit again with thicker mounting bracket for old Rail to prevent this from happening again and compromising the rest of bike internally. So hopefully two Rails in my possession soon (think everyone could use a back up ebike if ride fairly frequently).

Just an aggressive trail rider here I suppose on mixed terrain with plush suspension (coil), sturdy wheels/tires with CushCore. So not sure why parts always coming loose internally and getting destroyed? Since ownership of Rail in past 18-19 months, I do have over 5,000 miles and about 1.2 million vertical feet. So the bike has seen some use.

 

[Rando_12345]

Going back to the original question, my dream bike, based on roughly achievable aspects from existing bikes would be:

Spesh Levo geometry and adjustments
Full 29er, 160/160 travel (Similar to SCOR)
Canyon Spectral On 900Wh battery
Orbea Wild Weight (~21kg)
Any motor so long as reliable (i.e. not a Brose), with a 5 year warranty (this is actually the most far fetched aspect of the build)
Giant/Canyon pricing...

 

[outdrgod]

Pole Vioma. 190mm of travel, Bosch Smartsystem, eco-friendly construction, made in the EU, and built to last.