"Waterproofing" a Giant TRANCE E+2 PRO (2020) ?

[Lui_DK]

Hi folks.
I got Giant TRANCE E+2 PRO from 2020. Got it used in March 2021 with approx 150 km in the clock, so basically brand new. Thanks to this forum I quickly got aware of the bikes limitations in waterproofness so I have used a neoprene wrap from the start and been very careful with washing it.

So - touch wood - the bike is still running fine. But since I'm about to change the gear wire'n'hose plus the brake hose I decided to open the engine cover up and give it a look.
Everything looks OK with just some dust on the cramped cables and connectors. The speed sensor cable has a very deep cut, so I'm gonna exchange that and do a full length outer cover on the exposed bit.

The Danish weather set a precipitation record in 2023 and I haven't used the bike since Autumn where it started getting wet. Got more bikes but I miss riding the e-bike so I need to do something to make it "waterproof". I know that's never gonna be 100 % - so I focus on this:

1) Waterproofing the connectors.
Since everything is working I believe the connectors terminals must be in good shape.
-Does it makes sense to split them for a clean with compressed air and contact cleaner?
-Should protect the inners with dielectric grease?
-How do I protect the outside from water ingress ? Is the black rubber stuff that you @Evolution Stu use best - or should I use the RP25 shrink over the connectors that I think @cappuccino34 mentioned?

2) Simplifying the wire harness.
I agree that the cramped area above the engine is a challenge. So I'm tempted to get rid of the unnecessary wires.
-The wires for the lights f.x. Can you pull them out of the connectors or should they just be cut just above and sealed?

3) Engine bearings.
They seem to be fine still with no play but I'm gonna keep attention to this in the future.

I have attached some pictures below. Haven't manage to swing down the engine yet due to a stock bolt in the rear. The front bolts were hexagonal and the rear turned out to be TORX which I didn't notice until to late, so I may have damage the last bolt head. But I hope to wrestle it out.

Thanks in advance - Lui / Denmark

 

[Evolution Stu]

Hi,
I like the paint on stuff myself as it’s also super easy to peel off when you need access to the connector. But as long as it’s protected it will be fine.

I also silicon sealed the outer casings to the frame to keep water from running in there from the top.

For your info, I’ve done lots of these and ALL the motor bolts should be Torx.

I did away with both lighting looms and also the external charging port for max reliability. All my rides are a minim three hour round trip away, and some are 7hr round trip so max reliability is my aim. I hate wasted days!

That said, since fixing the battery firmware issue, she has done 2 trouble free years with just normal motor failure due to torque sensor.

Topic discussing that firmware here:
(This was by far our biggest issue)

https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/giant-traumas-are-they-battery-firmware-related.25754/.

The bike has just passed her 5000 mile birthday last weekend.

We celebrated by going over the bars twice as I haven’t fallen off for about a year…

You might as well have a smile about it.

 

[cappuccino34]

The damage to the speed sensor wire will be from a 'fin' moulded inside the bottom cover that traps it to the motor case. I think it's actual job is to trap and damage the wire, and as such, it's always successful. I suggest that you reroute the speed sensor wire slightly and tuck the connector up inside the seat tube. Doing this gets it out of the cramped area inside the covers, making some much needed space for the other connectors, gets it out of harm's way of the 'fin' and raises the connector itself higher than water is ever likely to get to.

Like Stu, I've also got rid of the charging port. I always remove the battery to clean the terminals with an air line after a ride, so it's no extra work for me to charge it off the bike. It's also better to charge the battery at room temperature anyway.
Removing the charging port also makes assembly MUCH easier because that little extra space makes a world of difference when it comes to routing and packaging the remaining connectors.

I cut the wires off the port itself and use the port to plug the hole.

A front mudguard that comes low enough at the rear to prevent water spraying up into the battery lock area helps too, because there's a channel in the top of the battery to direct the water straight onto the connector. Some adhesive-backed foam strips stuck on at angles to guide the water going down the back of the battery to one side helps with this, and it also reduces cable rattle in the down tube.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Like Stu, I've also got rid of the charging port. I always remove the battery to clean the terminals with an air line after a ride, so it's no extra work for me to charge it off the bike. It's also better to charge the battery at room temperature anyway.

A fun story.
So i needed GIANT to diagnose my bike for me as the motor had died, (We knew this, but of course computer must say yes first) so i phoned them up and booked her in for next day then remembered... Damn, I cut the diags port off the bike so they couldnt plug in!

So I spent a couple of joyous hours refitting a new port and took her in for diags.

Steve (The owner) then proceeded to show me how the new GIANT system no longer needs you to plug into the bike at all. Its all blutooth now! I was fuming.

And yes, I took her home and took that port back off.

 

[Lui_DK]

Spicy Nice one @Evolution Stu ! Would love to revisit Ae - have only been there once. And E-bike makes so much sense in the Stan's I have ridden in. Shame we can't fly with the beast's.

Thanks for your valuable input - I guess I have read all your post regarding your Trance challenges. But it sure pleases me that you finally have been able to run a long trouble free periode.

The paint on stuff - what's the product called ?

 

[Evolution Stu]

But it sure pleases me that you finally have been able to run a long trouble free periode.

The paint on stuff - what's the product called ?

Thank you, hopefully my wafflings have helped others to also enjoy these bikes more.

Its called:
Performix Liquid Tape.

https://amzn.eu/d/14graOD

 

[Lui_DK]

https://amzn.eu/d/14graOD

Cheers ! Your massive efforts has certainly helped me.

 

[Lui_DK]

The damage to the speed sensor wire will be from a 'fin' moulded inside the bottom cover that traps it to the motor case. I think it's actual job is to trap and damage the wire, and as such, it's always successful. I suggest that you reroute the speed sensor wire slightly and tuck the connector up inside the seat tube. Doing this gets it out of the cramped area inside the covers, making some much needed space for the other connectors, gets it out of harm's way of the 'fin' and raises the connector itself higher than water is ever likely to get to.

Like Stu, I've also got rid of the charging port. I always remove the battery to clean the terminals with an air line after a ride, so it's no extra work for me to charge it off the bike. It's also better to charge the battery at room temperature anyway.
Removing the charging port also makes assembly MUCH easier because that little extra space makes a world of difference when it comes to routing and packaging the remaining connectors.

I cut the wires off the port itself and use the port to plug the hole.

A front mudguard that comes low enough at the rear to prevent water spraying up into the battery lock area helps too, because there's a channel in the top of the battery to direct the water straight onto the connector. Some adhesive-backed foam strips stuck on at angles to guide the water going down the back of the battery to one side helps with this, and it also reduces cable rattle in the down tube.

Thanks for your advices @cappuccino34
I will consider removing the charging port as well.

Like anyone else with practical sense I'm truly baffled about the clumsy work with the wiring layout. If the battery was mounted upside down all the connectors could have been hidden in an area near the head tube much easier to waterproof. Moving up the charging port in the same manner would leave the water ingress challenges to the motor itself besides.
Any way - I'm glad you guys came up with some workarounds ! It's much appreciated.

 

[cappuccino34]

Thanks your advices @cappuccino34
I will consider removing the charging port as well.

Like anyone else with practical sense I'm truly baffled about the clumsy work with the wiring layout. If the battery was mounted upside down all the connectors could have been hidden in an area near the head tube much easier to waterproof. Moving up the charging port in the same manner would leave the water ingress challenges to the motor itself besides.
Any way - I'm glad you guys came up with some workarounds ! It's much appreciated.

You're absolutely right about inverting the battery.

I have bought the contacts and the proper crimp tool for the motor main board terminals so the next time I have to take mine apart I can make a much longer loom to move the small connectors to the top of the frame (apart from the two main power supply wires). It'll mean extending the Comms wires from the battery and shortening the wires to the RC-One remote, but it means that the only connector in the bottom will be a robust 2-pin for the power and two for the speed sensor.

 

[Lui_DK]

A quick question.
What do you call the outer "hose" that's protecting the cables?
Is it just a heat-shrink-tubing that hasn't been activated ?

 

[steve_sordy]

I sure hope that Giant are reading this thread. Then maybe they would design a bike that didn't need all the work that you guys feel necessary.

 

[Mikerb]

good work guys. As a bove such a shame the manufacturers do not take note and make some far overdue changes to make these bikes more waterproof...............and it is by no means just Giant.
I have 2 Whyte EMTBS one of which is 3.5 years old, the other 1.5 years old. Both have been used in UKs wet winters..........and I have done no additional waterproofing on them other than making a neoprene cover over the top of the charging port. that port has a rubber cap and is on the flat section above the motor. The cap does a good job but could potentially be snagged by trail rubbish so the neoprene cover protects a gainst that. I previously had a Levo and did lots of mods on that to make it waterproof.

 

[Brian VT USA]

I just stumbled onto this thread. Good stuff.
Liquid electrical tape is very handy to have around.
What do you all think of soaking everything possible in Corrosion-X? (see video)
I contacted the maker of my motor (Vinka) and they said it should be fine (in very broken English).
I haven't been into my motor yet but am considering it this winter.

 

[Lui_DK]

Nice idea.

 

[Lui_DK]

Simplifying the wire harness – Giant Trance 2020

Hi again. I tested the bike with the charging plug disassembled and everything was working fine. So I’m tempted to leave it out and run a simpler setup for easy packing of the wires/connectors behind the engine covers.

@Evolution Stu could you help me out with some more details on what you did?

On the main harness I can see that the light connection has been has been removed, which is a simple thing, as it's the same cables in both ends. But the rest leaves me confused.

So you had this for starters:

And you deletede the connectors circled out in the top off the harness. In the other end, you deleted the light connector and if I'm correct the cables with the same colours that was connected to the red connector in the top of the harness ?

Did you leave the cut cable ends like this or did you open the connector and remove the rest of the cable?

What did you delete from the battery connection?

Looking at the charger cable I think that you have removed the red 3 pin connector and the white 2 pin connector from battery connection ?

Sorry about all the questions - but I prefer to fully understand this and don't screw it up.

Thanks in advance - Lui

 

[Evolution Stu]

Simplifying the wire harness – Giant Trance 2020

Hi again. I tested the bike with the charging plug disassembled and everything was working fine. So I’m tempted to leave it out and run a simpler setup for easy packing of the wires/connectors behind the engine covers.

@Evolution Stu could you help me out with some more details on what you did?

Im going to try, but its a bit hazy, I'm afraid as i am suffering from memory recall issues in my old age.
(Genuinely... under investigation. Suspected early onset of the dreaded... )
But in essence, you have RCOne cables that must not be messed with for obvious reasons, lighting ports and feeds that can be removed entirely, and charging power and canbus ports that can be removed entirely.

That black conduit with the RCOne cable and lighting cable that runs down the headtube, slit it down the middle and remove all the lighting cables. Where they meet the main connectors just remove the feeds as you see fit. I removed them from the plug and filled the port with silicon to keep water out.

Then you just have the RCone cable running down the headtube.

The charging port was arguably easiest, i literally hacksawed it to a flush square. It is now literally a blanking plug for the outer frame. Looks factory, but doesn't work.

Now, you could take the old connectors off it, waterproof the cable ends, and use these as blanking plugs for the main loom. That's what i initially did as Giant used to have to plug into the bike for warranty work. SO I had a new spare in my garage that was refitted when Giant needed to talk to it.

Seems now that my model at least, no longer needs that at warranty time, so next time I am in there I may remove that cabling completely for even more room.

 

[Lui_DK]

Thanks again @Evolution Stu I got the info I need now. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear about the state of your memory. Hope it's nothing serious.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Thanks again @Evolution Stu I got the info I need now. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear about the state of your memory. Hope it's nothing serious.

Anytime mate, I hope you are successful But fear not, all the loom parts are relatively cheap if your screw this up:
(Or used to be at least.... )

The original MY20 Trance loom was £25:
147L-HDPOBO-15

Interestingly, that was superceded by :
147L-HCRCTM-12

The charging connector is £20:
147L-HDC000-13

Battery Discharge connector is £35:
147L-HDB000-40

 

[Lui_DK]

Anytime mate, I hope you are successful But fear not, all the loom parts are relatively cheap if your screw this up:
(Or used to be at least.... )

The original MY20 Trance loom was £25:
147L-HDPOBO-15

Interestingly, that was superceded by :
147L-HCRCTM-12

The charging connector is £20:
147L-HDC000-13

Battery Discharge connector is £35:
147L-HDB000-40

... relatively cheap - yes! Good to know - and thanks again.

 

[cappuccino34]

 

[cappuccino34]

 

[cappuccino34]

Just thought I'd post the pinout/wire colour information that I noted down when I was chopping mine about.

 

[Lui_DK]

Just thought I'd post the pinout/wire colour information that I noted down when I was chopping mine about.

Thanks - I will save this for the future

 

[Evolution Stu]

Just thought I'd post the pinout/wire colour information that I noted down when I was chopping mine about.

Some quality info there, top man for sharing.

 

[cappuccino34]

The purple wire going up to the red jst connector is 36v+ when powered by the battery.
I assume that, since there doesn't appear to be a use for a low-current 36v output, that it's to power the system up in the absence of battery output. It could be used during programming and diagnosis. Obviously it wouldn't carry enough current to actually drive the motor.

The pin numbers for the circular connector for the RC-One remote are 'assumed' numbers, based on 'conventional' numbering in circular connectors.

 

[Lui_DK]

Hi guys - I could really need some help here.
For starters I waterproof'ed every connector with liquid tape but it was freaking impossible to get everything back behind the engine shields, so now I'll do the charger and lights chop. But that's easier said than done. I find the spliced wires a challenge. So @cappuccino34 and @Evolution Stu feel free to chime in

So I'll try to describe my challenges stepwise:

1) The battery connection. When the charger port is removed it's logical that the yellow wire must be chopped. But what else is safe to chop? (I fuck... up already but I'll buy a new battery connector).

2) The splices:
I assume it's safe to split the black splice and crimp a new waterproof connection?
And what about the blue one? I guess it's the power for the lights and I'm getting rid of that. So I get rid of the splice and do a fresh crimp on the red parts - yes ?

3) Next step - I need to understand what the 3 small wires (pink, brown and purple - excuse my colour blindness) are doing. As far as I understand from the wire chart @cappuccino34 was so kind to provide they are necessary for operation of the bike, like power up, boost level. general com and so forth. But I have trouble again to figure how to safely simplifying the layout. The needed wires are pink, brown and purple - right ?
These wires are spliced at the red 4 way connector from the battery terminal. Since the blue is assumed to power the lights - that will be chopped. Next step must be to chop the black wire at the splice on the staying harness. Again I assume it needs to be opened and given a new waterproof crimp. Then I will chop the white and grey from the 8-way connector. So now the main harness is simplified as much as possible.
That should leave me with a 8-way connector for the engines com (with 6 wires active) and a white 3-way connector for engine power (only two wires: red power and black ground) and the red 3-way connection the battery socket with the com and power wires . Speed sensor will be left intact. The other end of the main harness will then only be the round connector, that will be connected to the red, black, purple, brown and yellow wires. (what's the yellow for?). I can only see the pink at the other end, connecting the battery socket to the 4-way and the again to 8-way and then the engine. I suppose it serves a purpose. Chopping that won't save any space anyway.

Let me know if I'm on the right track here.

The crimps I need wasn't available at my hardware store (Bauhaus) but I'll try source some at an autoparts supplier.
Is a waterproof crimp advertised a glued crimp ? It's hard to figure out for me in Danish.
Is it 3 mm crimps in 1:3 ?

Thanks in advance


Lui

 

[cappuccino34]

The thick black wire going to the charge port can be cut. Instead of making a new crimp joint, it's easier for you to unclip the contact from the white power connector going to the motor and put some sealing heat shrink over the existing crimp.

Same for the yellow and the skinny purple.

The grey and the white ones are just for the lights. Personally I'd prefer to remove the contacts for them from the 8-way and put plastic grommet pins into the boot to keep it watertight. It may be tricky getting the contacts out though so be careful. If you're not confident, the just cut the wires and seal the ends properly.

 

[cappuccino34]

The wire that you call blue is purple.
That can be removed. The thin black wire which goes up to the same connector as the purple can also be removed.

The green and brown ones that branch off to the charge port can be removed.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Nothing more for me to add.

 

[cappuccino34]

Nothing more for me to add.

I've wondered about doing a full replacement loom for these you know Stu? I've bought the proper crimp tool for the contacts inside the motor to allow me to make the wires long enough (without joints) to have the connectors in the top of the downtube, completely out of the way.