Warning Rise H15 buyers. Cheap shock

[Longfellow78]

Have just found out that that float x rear shock on the H15 is a cheaper oem version and not the one with the blue alloy knob that has 11 clicks of low speed compression damping. There is very very little info about this shock apart from a thread on it here

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/2022-fox-float-x.1181456/page-7

It appears that manufacturers are using a cheaper version of the shock with a missing low speed compression knob. However doing some more digging it appears it may have limited lsc adjustment. A manufacturer data sheet here https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page1132-CPJ1/808-17-471-KIT.jpg

Says "no lsc" but also appears to show the ability to rotate the black plastic knob to fully open, closed, or two intermediate positions instead of the 11 on the non oem shock.

Very annoying to all those like me who assumed that it was just a normal shock on the H15. Commencal and specialised fitting this shock on their bikes too.

Annoying as hell but not a deal breaker I guess. The stock dps shock on the h30 and m20 only has open firm and medium lsc positions and this one has open light medium and firm. So one more and No one was shitting a brick about the basic dps shock. But thought it was good to know.

 

[Chicane]

Have just found out that that float x rear shock on the H15 is a cheaper oem version and not the one with the blue alloy knob that has 11 clicks of low speed compression damping. There is very very little info about this shock apart from a thread on it here

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/2022-fox-float-x.1181456/page-7

It appears that manufacturers are using a cheaper version of the shock with a missing low speed compression knob. However doing some more digging it appears it may have limited lsc adjustment. A manufacturer data sheet here https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page1132-CPJ1/808-17-471-KIT.jpg

Says "no lsc" but also appears to show the ability to rotate the black plastic knob to fully open, closed, or two intermediate positions instead of the 11 on the non oem shock.

Very annoying to all those like me who assumed that it was just a normal shock on the H15. Commencal and specialised fitting this shock on their bikes too.

Annoying as hell but not a deal breaker I guess. The stock dps shock on the h30 and m20 only has open firm and medium lsc positions and this one has open light medium and firm. So one more and No one was shitting a brick about the basic dps shock. But thought it was good to know.

It hasn’t been a secret that the H15 or M20 comes with a Performance fork without the extra adjustments. It’s no different than getting it with a Performance shock, is it? Performance series= less adjustments.

 

[Snowrydr01]

It hasn’t been a secret that the H15 or M20 comes with a Performance fork without the extra adjustments. It’s no different than getting it with a Performance shock, is it? Performance series= less adjustments.

Agreed.

On their website it lists = "Shock Fox FLOAT X Performance 2-Position Evol LV custom tune 210x55mm "

Fox generally has 3 levels Factory= all adjustments and Kashima, Performance Elite = All adjustments non Kashima, and Performance = Lowest level usually missing some adjustments and lower end damper in forks.

 

[Snowrydr01]

Have just found out that that float x rear shock on the H15 is a cheaper oem version and not the one with the blue alloy knob that has 11 clicks of low speed compression damping. There is very very little info about this shock apart from a thread on it here

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/2022-fox-float-x.1181456/page-7

It appears that manufacturers are using a cheaper version of the shock with a missing low speed compression knob. However doing some more digging it appears it may have limited lsc adjustment. A manufacturer data sheet here https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page1132-CPJ1/808-17-471-KIT.jpg

Says "no lsc" but also appears to show the ability to rotate the black plastic knob to fully open, closed, or two intermediate positions instead of the 11 on the non oem shock.

Very annoying to all those like me who assumed that it was just a normal shock on the H15. Commencal and specialised fitting this shock on their bikes too.

Annoying as hell but not a deal breaker I guess. The stock dps shock on the h30 and m20 only has open firm and medium lsc positions and this one has open light medium and firm. So one more and No one was shitting a brick about the basic dps shock. But thought it was good to know.

Without making assumptions to your years riding or skill level and i apologize if this comes off wrong BUT setting up factory shocks (correctly) is very difficult and time consuming and most people get it wrong. Depending on the damper circuit HSC can influence LSC which makes the bracketing process even worse. LSR and HSR on more advanced shocks is kind of redundant because most of the rebound phase happens in what would be considered the LSR anyway. The point I am trying to make is that Fox provides the performance series to OEMs for 2 reasons FIRST to provide a financially cheaper shock and SECOND to make sure the end user cant mess it up too bad and think that its a bad bike or bad suspension. If you dont know the difference between Performance and Performance Elite, you probably shouldnt have that much adjustments anyway.

 

[Chicane]

Agreed.

On their website it lists = "Shock Fox FLOAT X Performance 2-Position Evol LV custom tune 210x55mm "

Fox generally has 3 levels Factory= all adjustments and Kashima, Performance Elite = All adjustments non Kashima, and Performance = Lowest level usually missing some adjustments and lower end damper in forks.

Yep. I’m aware, but the OP clearly wasn’t.

 

[Longfellow78]

Without making assumptions to your years riding or skill level and i apologize if this comes off wrong BUT setting up factory shocks (correctly) is very difficult and time consuming and most people get it wrong. Depending on the damper circuit HSC can influence LSC which makes the bracketing process even worse. LSR and HSR on more advanced shocks is kind of redundant because most of the rebound phase happens in what would be considered the LSR anyway. The point I am trying to make is that Fox provides the performance series to OEMs for 2 reasons FIRST to provide a financially cheaper shock and SECOND to make sure the end user cant mess it up too bad and think that its a bad bike or bad suspension. If you dont know the difference between Performance and Performance Elite, you probably shouldnt have that much adjustments anyway.

FYI years riding = forever, skill level = beginner!

"If you dont know the difference between Performance and Performance Elite, you probably shouldnt have that much adjustments anyway." I am aware of the differences between these specifications for other Fox products, but hadn't seen anything about this new model X performance model as there is no press about it, and as I said made an unwarranted assumption that it was just a performance elite without thinking about it.

I was pointing out that I made some assumptions like some other people I have seen that this shock is more limited in settings than the standard shock. I am well aware that "performance" on fox products often means a more limited damper and/or less adjustents, but for the Float X there is no press material, no reviews, and no entry on Fox's site, so I just didn't notice that it wasn't the standard retail PE version.

I just found out it was a more limited OEM spec and wanted others to know in case they made the same mistaken assumption as me.

I expect you are right about the more limited options meaning people can't mess it up (one of the reasons I'm happy taking a Grip over a Grip2 damper for much less money in fact) but it's still disappointing if you think you are getting a better specced product than you are.

So from my understanding then, the Float X has one adjuster for rebound, which covers LSR and HSR, and one adjuster which apprently lets you adjust from 4 different compression settings of Open, Light, Medium, Firm. As well as another 2 position lever which I guess is a lock out? I know very little about the implications of these, or why it is better to have a full range of rebound settings, but limited compression ones.

As a lighter than average rider at 145lbs I am assuming that I want compression to have minimal damping, and rebound to have more damping? Is that correct? Would I likely want to leave the shock on open for compression? I don't really understand how tokens affect this relationship, they increase the ramp up of the spring rate for heavier riders right? Not sure also how that differs from PSI in the shock either.

The H15 is the only Rise model with this shock, it says "custom tune" on the specs, which I assume means that it is preset to work well out of the box with the average rider for these settings anyway.....

Thanks.

 

[Snowrydr01]

FYI years riding = forever, skill level = beginner!

"If you dont know the difference between Performance and Performance Elite, you probably shouldnt have that much adjustments anyway." I am aware of the differences between these specifications for other Fox products, but hadn't seen anything about this new model X performance model as there is no press about it, and as I said made an unwarranted assumption that it was just a performance elite without thinking about it.

I was pointing out that I made some assumptions like some other people I have seen that this shock is more limited in settings than the standard shock. I am well aware that "performance" on fox products often means a more limited damper and/or less adjustents, but for the Float X there is no press material, no reviews, and no entry on Fox's site, so I just didn't notice that it wasn't the standard retail PE version.

I just found out it was a more limited OEM spec and wanted others to know in case they made the same mistaken assumption as me.

I expect you are right about the more limited options meaning people can't mess it up (one of the reasons I'm happy taking a Grip over a Grip2 damper for much less money in fact) but it's still disappointing if you think you are getting a better specced product than you are.

So from my understanding then, the Float X has one adjuster for rebound, which covers LSR and HSR, and one adjuster which apprently lets you adjust from 4 different compression settings of Open, Light, Medium, Firm. As well as another 2 position lever which I guess is a lock out? I know very little about the implications of these, or why it is better to have a full range of rebound settings, but limited compression ones.

As a lighter than average rider at 145lbs I am assuming that I want compression to have minimal damping, and rebound to have more damping? Is that correct? Would I likely want to leave the shock on open for compression? I don't really understand how tokens affect this relationship, they increase the ramp up of the spring rate for heavier riders right? Not sure also how that differs from PSI in the shock either.

The H15 is the only Rise model with this shock, it says "custom tune" on the specs, which I assume means that it is preset to work well out of the box with the average rider for these settings anyway.....

Thanks.

This is a large can of worms

The rebound will cover both low and high but since most of the rebounds happen in low its fine. the open/light/medium/firm is going to be the high speed (or only) compression damping and the 2 position switch is going to effectively be the low speed.

In my opinion most people rebound is over damped and returns too slow (on both fork and shock) If it cant return fast enough the suspension is going to live in a stiffer spot of the air curve and its going to feel rougher. Its not linear but think of the air suspension as getting harder the further into your travel it goes because the air compresses effectively changing the PSI. If the suspension cant spring back to be longer (effectively less PSI) then its going to be stiffer feeling. This is where tokens come in, they lower the internal air volume so the PSI increases faster as the suspension moves in. Tokens should be used to tune the mid and bottom out feel. If you like how the suspension feels but are bottoming out, tokens are the way to go so the psi increases more before bottom out stopping it from happening. As a lighter rider, you probably dont need them and should take the factory ones out of your fork. I am 190lb geared up and i prefer no tokens unless its a spot with big drops where i know i will bottom out. I prefer a more linear feel instead of a ramped up feel.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole, check out vorsprung suspensions, they have a great Tuesday Tune series on youtube that doesnt a good job of explaining.

 

[Snowrydr01]

i should add that a more damped the rebound is, the more comfortable or safe it might feel in a car park or over slow technical stuff. But once you pick up speed it starts to "pack in" the suspension and/or cant track the ground fast enough

 

[Richridesmtb]

Be careful if you're jumping a heap and have minimal rebound damping. Unless your technique is good you increase your chance of being bucked.

As for the controls, I was more thinking that all the controls would be low speed adjustment and the high speed circuit would be set from factory. I could be wrong however. Most of what you notice as far as damping goes is in the low speed stuff, what you use going over bumps, shifting weight and braking. The high speed opens up over big hits and it can be much more tricky to get the tune right.

 

[Snowrydr01]

Be careful if you're jumping a heap and have minimal rebound damping. Unless your technique is good you increase your chance of being bucked.

As for the controls, I was more thinking that all the controls would be low speed adjustment and the high speed circuit would be set from factory. I could be wrong however. Most of what you notice as far as damping goes is in the low speed stuff, what you use going over bumps, shifting weight and braking. The high speed opens up over big hits and it can be much more tricky to get the tune right.

HAHA yeah, poor jump technique with more rebound and over you go. I think thats why having more rebound damping if more comfortable for most riders.

you are right about the LSC, i just checked the rebuild page, the "2 position switch" is either open or lowest LSC setting, and then the other dial is LSC. I guess i expected a different valving setup. I guess i can see how you want to be able to have OEMs tell users to just adjust low speed between frames to counter pedal bob and just sell a customer HS shim stack to each OEM depending on what they want their bike to be.

 

[thewrx]

Its probably an “ebike tuned” rear shock…

 

[Snowrydr01]

Its probably an “ebike tuned” rear shock…

Marketing term for assuming fatter riders , sprung mass is sprung mass. 10 pounds more on a frame wouldn't be much for a shock on a normal bike.

 

[R3Z3N]

I have an OEM Float X 2022 Performance on my Spec Kenevo SL, and a Float X 2022 Elite on my SC Hightower V2.

Sadly in the rebuild manual via Fox service manual, Fox does not remove the blue compression knob.

The parts list indicates 808-17-470-KIT which is the adjustable LSC knob. However Fox indicates this is NOT sold separately (Factory install only. Not servicable and do not remove. Available in eyelet assembly only.). Instead one needs to buy the Eyelet Assembly 808-17-435-KIT

Retention seems to only be from the ball bearing clicker assembly as is the rebound knob....but Fox indicates this is a non serviceable part, only at the factory. The Performance (OEM model) LSC knob is set upon assembly, it is not adjustable, at least via simply turning the knob. I have not yet tried to remove either knobs.... First I shall see if I can order the kit.

Update, looking at both drawings, the Performance has an inverted flange that captures the plastic cap onto the eyelet body.
The Elite is retained by the Detent Housing (section A-A), which suggests that these are compressed in during install of the blue compression adjuster knob.
Update #2: the adjuster on my Elite does have 4 small holes 90º on the side with numbers allowing one to disengage the captured detent housing. Tried it, am able to remove the knob. I just used 4 small thumb tacks with the shock held by something else. DONT LOSE THE DETENTS/SPRINGS/BALL BEARINGS!

 

[R3Z3N]

So I just spoke with my LBS who can order fox parts, the LSC knob can be ordered despite the fox website saying otherwise, however it is backordered. The eyelet assembly oddly does not show up in the ordering system..... anyway, I put in an order for the LSC knob for $25 USD locally.

 

[Longfellow78]

Found a few threads about this on other forums and it appears that the performance and performance elite shocks are identical except for the lsc knob which can indeed be fitted aftermarket despite fox reps' lies that it can't. Couple of people on mtbr showing they have added the knob to their own shock and it works as expected. I'll probably order and fit it too despite having no idea how to adjust it!

 

[benzy]

Found a few threads about this on other forums and it appears that the performance and performance elite shocks are identical except for the lsc knob which can indeed be fitted aftermarket despite fox reps' lies that it can't. Couple of people on mtbr showing they have added the knob to their own shock and it works as expected. I'll probably order and fit it too despite having no idea how to adjust it!

Can you link the mtbr thread? Any install instructions?