WARNING Belt Drive on EMTBs

[OldBean]

2000 miles on my Ries & Muller Delight Mountain Rollhof and Gates belt my belt snapped during a mild rock garden trail nothing dramatic but miles from anywhere fortunately mate rescued me but quite a walk with heavy bike .
In well over 4500 miles with chains and cassettes I never got stranded as one can usually make a repair on the trail.....With belts ...no chance unless you carry a spare.
No question about the ease of cleaning with belt and gearbox BUT I seriously in the event of a breakage you are stuffed .
Another major problem has been sourcing a replacement belt..... My dealer does not stock and the so called suppliers and dealers did not stock the right size.....Finally sourced from Gates main distributer in Germany .... EMTBs Gearbox YES Belt NO

 

[Alexbn921]

I view a belt like a chainring. 99.99% of the time it will never fail, but then you smash it into a rock at full speed it does.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I take it you put the belt back on there for the photo as it would have wound itself off the pulleys when you went to pedal ?

The tensioner is tied down to make the bike movable ? This wasn't a pre-breakage modification ?

I think the belts are generally accepted to be quite hardy, though you need to check the alignment, if it's not exact there will be a massive difference in life span. I guess you need to work out why it failed so you don't have the same issue again ?

I guess you're saying it's a good idea to have a spare belt in stock for your bike for whenever you do need one.

 

[Mikerb]

superglue?

 

[Ark]

just needs a needle and thread

 

[Pdoz]

just needs a needle and thread

Interesting idea - I'd wonder if some 2/3 mm dyneema could be used with an awl as an emergency repair. We used to stitch fan belts to get us home from outback trips - surely modern synthetic fibres are an option?

 

[Streddaz]

2000 miles on my Ries & Muller Delight Mountain Rollhof and Gates belt my belt snapped during a mild rock garden trail nothing dramatic but miles from anywhere fortunately mate rescued me but quite a walk with heavy bike .
In well over 4500 miles with chains and cassettes I never got stranded as one can usually make a repair on the trail.....With belts ...no chance unless you carry a spare.
No question about the ease of cleaning with belt and gearbox BUT I seriously in the event of a breakage you are stuffed .
Another major problem has been sourcing a replacement belt..... My dealer does not stock and the so called suppliers and dealers did not stock the right size.....Finally sourced from Gates main distributer in Germany .... EMTBs Gearbox YES Belt NO

View attachment 119844

Would you get 2000 miles with the one chain? I don't think so. A lot of the bike packing guys use belts with gearboxes because of the reliability and little maintenance they need but they do carry a spare belt with them. Yes, if you break one you can't fix it like a chain but you get way more milage than a chain and cassette, plus not having the hassle to lube it too.
If I had a belt drive, I would carry a spare if I was going somewhere a bit remote, where a walk back would be a problem.
It can happen with a lot of items on your bike. Had a mate blow a free hub halfway through a big ride. Fortunately, it did allow the wheel to coast, (some do lock up completely) so he only had to walk up the hills.
With the Pinion MGU you can have either a belt or chain drive.

What type of Gates belt is it? There are a couple of different types.

 

[Kimmoi]

Okay. So all belt drives are s**t from now on?

 

[Bontee]

Would you get 2000 miles with the one chain? I don't think so. A lot of the bike packing guys use belts with gearboxes because of the reliability and little maintenance they need but they do carry a spare belt with them. Yes, if you break one you can't fix it like a chain but you get way more milage than a chain and cassette, plus not having the hassle to lube it too.
If I had a belt drive, I would carry a spare if I was going somewhere a bit remote, where a walk back would be a problem.
It can happen with a lot of items on your bike. Had a mate blow a free hub halfway through a big ride. Fortunately, it did allow the wheel to coast, (some do lock up completely) so he only had to walk up the hills.
With the Pinion MGU you can have either a belt or chain drive.

What type of Gates belt is it? There are a couple of different types.

Yes easily 2000 from a chain,no problem whatsoever and I have never broken a chain.Worn them out eventually but never broken one.

 

[maynard]

I always carry a staple gun when riding my belt driven bikes .

 

[Kimmoi]

Would you get 2000 miles with the one chain? I don't think so. A lot of the bike packing guys use belts with gearboxes because of the reliability and little maintenance they need but they do carry a spare belt with them. Yes, if you break one you can't fix it like a chain but you get way more milage than a chain and cassette, plus not having the hassle to lube it too.
If I had a belt drive, I would carry a spare if I was going somewhere a bit remote, where a walk back would be a problem.
It can happen with a lot of items on your bike. Had a mate blow a free hub halfway through a big ride. Fortunately, it did allow the wheel to coast, (some do lock up completely) so he only had to walk up the hills.
With the Pinion MGU you can have either a belt or chain drive.

What type of Gates belt is it? There are a couple of different types.

I managed to get 5100km with one X01 Eagle chain. It snapped from Powerlock. No 0.75 stretch yet though.

EDIT:
but honestly i believe that the planets were in a favorable position in that time, an exceptional case.
I have new X01 now, interesting to see how long i can get with it this time.

 

[Sander23]

Yes easily 2000 from a chain,no problem whatsoever and I have never broken a chain.Worn them out eventually but never broken one.

Me to my 12 speed slx cassette is at 4300km, rotating 2 chains 1 xt and 1 slx. Both are at 0.5% wear.
The xt chain broke at 2000km 2 weeks ago, the pin broke out.

 

[Bontee]

Me to my 12 speed slx cassette is at 4300km, rotating 2 chains 1 xt and 1 slx. Both are at 0.5% wear.
The xt chain broke at 2000km 2 weeks ago, the pin broke out.

I have an slx 12 speed cassette and XO1 chain ,I never change the chains,just run the whole transmission until it jumps.
current transmission is at 2700 miles and not at 0.5 yet,I have a chain guage but to be honest hardly ever use it.Just measured it out of curiosity.

 

[Ark]

Interesting idea - I'd wonder if some 2/3 mm dyneema could be used with an awl as an emergency repair. We used to stitch fan belts to get us home from outback trips - surely modern synthetic fibres are an option?

hole punch and a zipties might work.

someone should test it

 

[Spin]

Yes easily 2000 from a chain,no problem whatsoever and I have never broken a chain.Worn them out eventually but never broken one.

OEM SRAM 12 speed , about 200kms old

 

[Alexbn921]

I broke my chain last week. It's been over 15 since the last broken chain.

 

[Sander23]

I have an slx 12 speed cassette and XO1 chain ,I never change the chains,just run the whole transmission until it jumps.
current transmission is at 2700 miles and not at 0.5 yet,I have a chain guage but to be honest hardly ever use it.Just measured it out of curiosity.

Ive Read that it doesn't match that well. Its more noisy

 

[Streddaz]

I managed to get 5100km with one X01 Eagle chain. It snapped from Powerlock. No 0.75 stretch yet though.

EDIT:
but honestly i believe that the planets were in a favorable position in that time, an exceptional case.
I have new X01 now, interesting to see how long i can get with it this time.

That's a pretty good effort! I usually get about a year before getting to 0.75 chain wear and that's about 2000km. I do ride in all conditions and mud and grit really take a toll on chain life.

I have an slx 12 speed cassette and XO1 chain ,I never change the chains,just run the whole transmission until it jumps.
current transmission is at 2700 miles and not at 0.5 yet,I have a chain guage but to be honest hardly ever use it.Just measured it out of curiosity.

The only problem with doing that, is the cassette and chain ring is a lot more expensive to replace than a chain. If you replace you chain at about 0.75 wear you can usually get 3 chains to one cassette.

 

[Ark]

That's a pretty good effort! I usually get about a year before getting to 0.75 chain wear and that's about 2000km. I do ride in all conditions and mud and grit really take a toll on chain life.

The only problem with doing that, is the cassette and chain ring is a lot more expensive to replace than a chain. If you replace you chain at about 0.75 wear you can usually get 3 chains to one cassette.

the cheapest sram cassette is like £30-50 quid though if he has the old shimano 8/9/10 speed hub

 

[thewrx]

I always carry a spare belt in my supercharged car, doesn't weigh very much and easy to stuff in the glovebox.

I am suprised you got 4000 out of any drive chain or belt, with a snap like that seems like it was fatigued or had a cut in the belt prior. Either way I think belts will be the future of bike drivetrain, especially ebikes as we can have internal gear setups in the rear hub, in the mid-drive, or both. However, I think chains will have their place too, just pro's and con's to each; just like moto's, that run chain, belt, or both.

 

[Streddaz]

the cheapest sram cassette is like £30-50 quid though if he has the old shimano 8/9/10 speed hub

If you have any proper EMTB bought in the last 5 years it will have a 12 speed drivetrain and those cassettes aren't very cheap.
I did hear that running a high end chain and low end cassette is the way to go, as apparently the more expensive chains are more wear resistant, and the cheaper cassettes are all steel so they both last longer. I might have to try that when my chain is needed to be replaced next.

 

[Ark]

If you have any proper EMTB bought in the last 5 years it will have a 12 speed drivetrain and those cassettes aren't very cheap.
I did hear that running a high end chain and low end cassette is the way to go, as apparently the more expensive chains are more wear resistant, and the cheaper cassettes are all steel so they both last longer. I might have to try that when my chain is needed to be replaced next.

yea they still go on an old shimano hub

PG-1210 Eagle Cassette - CS-PG-1210-A1 - SRAM

PG-1210 Eagle Cassette, CS-PG-1210-A1, SRAM. SX Eagle™ continues to expand the Eagle™ ecosystem. Now from SX to XX1, you can mix and match any components to find the perfect mix, price or look yo...

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• Works with low-cost wheels that have splined 8/9/10sp driver bodies.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/sram-pg-1210-eagle-12-speed-cassette

£24.99
Most people will get the pg-1230 though bit more expensive I think around £80 but both are bomb proof

a lot of current gen EMTB won't have a super expensive XG cassette especially if they are in the 6k or less range

 

[Bones]

On my bike it came with a 12 speed SLX cassette and an XT chain. In the first 1k miles I fitted about 3 normal £20 chains. Because the chains never last I fitted an XO1 chain. At 3k I replaced the drive train thinking it was goosed, only to find out it was the microspline freehub. That chain still had less than 0.75% wear on it according to the checker.
It never went rusty, I hardly ever cleaned or oiled it. All it got was a squirt of gt85 on every ride.
I stopped being a slave to the chain
I'm now running a deore cassette with an XO1 chain and life is sweet

 

[Kimmoi]

That's a pretty good effort! I usually get about a year before getting to 0.75 chain wear and that's about 2000km. I do ride in all conditions and mud and grit really take a toll on chain life.

The only problem with doing that, is the cassette and chain ring is a lot more expensive to replace than a chain. If you replace you chain at about 0.75 wear you can usually get 3 chains to one cassette.

I used NX Eagle cassette. It's very cheap. That was just an experiment; i wanted to see how long that chain lasts.
Normally i replace my chain when it's 0.5 wear.
Btw that NX cassette lasted about 6000km, at 5000km i replaced those three small gogs. It's still working perfectly but i replaced the entire transmission now.

And i also ride in all conditions, all year round. Mud, sand, water, snow, ice.

 

[Streddaz]

On my bike it came with a 12 speed SLX cassette and an XT chain. In the first 1k miles I fitted about 3 normal £20 chains. Because the chains never last I fitted an XO1 chain. At 3k I replaced the drive train thinking it was goosed, only to find out it was the microspline freehub. That chain still had less than 0.75% wear on it according to the checker.
It never went rusty, I hardly ever cleaned or oiled it. All it got was a squirt of gt85 on every ride.
I stopped being a slave to the chain
I'm now running a deore cassette with an XO1 chain and life is sweet

That's good to know and is what I heard was the best combo.

yea they still go on an old shimano hub

PG-1210 Eagle Cassette - CS-PG-1210-A1 - SRAM

PG-1210 Eagle Cassette, CS-PG-1210-A1, SRAM. SX Eagle™ continues to expand the Eagle™ ecosystem. Now from SX to XX1, you can mix and match any components to find the perfect mix, price or look yo...

www.sram.com

• Works with low-cost wheels that have splined 8/9/10sp driver bodies.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/sram-pg-1210-eagle-12-speed-cassette

£24.99
Most people will get the pg-1230 though bit more expensive I think around £80 but both are bomb proof

a lot of current gen EMTB won't have a super expensive XG cassette especially if they are in the 6k or less range

It will depend on the freehub. Most EMTBs with 12 speed either have the SRAM XD driver or Shimano Microspline. You would have to change the freehub body to use the 10/9/8 body.

 

[thewrx]

no pinned cassette's here, chewed thru 2 of those before I spent a few extra bucks and got one that was one solid piece of cnc; and I buy a decent chains but not the bling gold ones. Also, my gen 2 levo that I bought in 2021 came with an 11-speed too. So not all ebikes sold in the past 5 years run 12 speeds.

 

[mmcengineer]

I always carry a staple gun when riding my belt driven bikes .

Ah brilliant tip i can now fire the small sherpa that runs behind me on rides in case of failure , he will be happy to know he no longer has to carry my 40lb bike back home but will also be unhappy is now jobless

 

[Tribey]

I guess you're saying it's a good idea to have a spare belt in stock for your bike for whenever you do need one.

That's my take too, and if I was running a belt, I'd have a new one ready in the garage, like I have chains and cassettes.

 

[Malcb]

Just wondering how bulky/heavy a new belt is?

Given the belt is unlikely to have worn out and it is more likely damage from and earlier point I guess perhaps more checking would have avoided the walk?

You might have never had a chain break or fail but many have and also take out a derailleur resulting in a walk, on the other side I am sure there are riders with belts that have never had a failure.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Belt is a lot lighter than a chain and not necessarily bulky. Larger riders could carry one around their waist ! ;-)

It might be that people carry an emergency "split" belt for super quick fixes if you can't be bothered to split the triangle/drop the wheel, like the Veer - mentioned by @V86 a whopping 4 years ago ..

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