Upgrading Shimano motor

[DJ57UMP]

@Rob Rides EMTB

Need some help. Given your access are you able to tell us if you can buy an EP8 motor from Shimano (?) in the UK?

I want to replace the E8000 in my £10k Heckler with the newer motor but I can't get an answer from Madison.

Cheers

 

[DJ57UMP]

Not Rob specific - Please don't reply with things like you can service the motor or the EP8 isn't that much better and on and on. I also don't want a serviced one from eBay or to buy one from Germany or wherever!

 

[Spiff]

1400€ in Commencal

BIKES, SNOW, LIFESTYLE - COMMENCAL

COMMENCAL is based in the principality of Andorra, nestled away in the Pyrenees a stone's throw from the World Cup track. Commencal bikes caters for a wide range of mountain bikers. DH, enduro, trail, e-bike, kids bikes, dirt jump and more. We've got you covered.

www.commencal-store.es

 

[steve_sordy]

I have read on here that it is not simply unbolting the e8000 and bolting in the EP8 (despite the bolt holes and positioning being common). One of @Knut's mates did it early on. He was an experienced electrician and said it was tricky. The wiring used is completely different for starters and a load of other stuff that I can't recall now. But he showed that with sufficient motivation, knowledge and access to electrical stuff it can be done.

Don't let me put you off trying, just don't expect it to be easy.

 

[DJ57UMP]

1400€ in Commencal

BIKES, SNOW, LIFESTYLE - COMMENCAL

COMMENCAL is based in the principality of Andorra, nestled away in the Pyrenees a stone's throw from the World Cup track. Commencal bikes caters for a wide range of mountain bikers. DH, enduro, trail, e-bike, kids bikes, dirt jump and more. We've got you covered.

www.commencal-store.es

But that's not a UK supplier and won't have UK support and I did say nothing from Gremany or the like

 

[DJ57UMP]

I have read on here that it is not simply unbolting the e8000 and bolting in the EP8 (despite the bolt holes and positioning being common). One of @Knut's mates did it early on. He was an experienced electrician and said it was tricky. The wiring used is completely different for starters and a load of other stuff that I can't recall now. But he showed that with sufficient motivation, knowledge and access to electrical stuff it can be done.

Don't let me put you off trying, just don't expect it to be easy.

I have a Heckler with the E8000 motor and a Heckler MX with the EP8 setup.

I don't understand why people are scared about playing with the electrics - it's all pretty much plug-and-play.

My thought was to buy a doner bike and swap all the gubbins over then sell the doner bike with the EP8 motor.

It's amazing me that this isn't a bigger issue with people!

 

[R120]

It can be done but the problems is that the EP8 is not technically available on the aftermarket, you can buy them, but the official line is they are not, and as such anywhere you get one from is unlikely to fulfill your dealer backup requirements.

not that difficult a swap you just need all the associated wiring which is readily available on the aftermarket.

I do wonder through if Shimano will start providing the new EP6 motor as an alternative to E8000 owners. Some power as EP8 but heavier and cheaper.

 

[DJ57UMP]

It can be done but the problems is that the EP8 is not technically available on the aftermarket, you can buy them, but the official line is they are not, and as such anywhere you get one from is unlikely to fulfill your dealer backup requirements.

not that difficult a swap you just need all the associated wiring which is readily available on the aftermarket.

I do wonder through if Shimano will start providing the new EP6 motor as an alternative to E8000 owners. Some power as EP8 but heavier and cheaper.

Cheers man, that's really helpful and constructive.

Do you have any insights into what happens after 2 years if the motor dies?

 

[R120]

For me it’s not an issue as I don’t think the EP8 is a big enough improvement over the E8000 to bother, but I do think it’s crazy not to have the option.

 

[R120]

Cheers man, that's really helpful and constructive.

Do you have any insights into what happens after 2 years if the motor dies?

Unfortunately nothing concrete - some people have had replacement motors out of warranty, others offered a discount, and others paid full wack.

hard to get any sort of hard and fast rule as some people are Going via LBS, others direct with bike manafacturer, others with Madison.

 

[R120]

You can buy a new motor from Madison via your LBS if yours goes bang out of warranty.

 

[DJ57UMP]

For me it’s not an issue as I don’t think the EP8 is a big enough improvement over the E8000 to bother, but I do think it’s crazy not to have the option.

I've two Hecklers - the EP8 is more powerful, performs better and the battery lasts longer. To me the EP8 is a way better platform.

 

[DJ57UMP]

You can buy a new motor from Madison via your LBS if yours goes bang out of warranty.

That's interesting. Sorry to be a pain but have you hear of people with the E8000 having an issue and being able to go with the EP8?

So in effect upgrading...

 

[DJ57UMP]

thing is these companys want you to throw your old bike in the bin and go get a new one with a new motor as do not want you upgrading motors and i have never seen a shimano motor for sale in the uk let alone with waranty.

you could try peter as might still have a account to buy stuff from shimano Homepage - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

or here Cycle Repairs Halifax & Sowerby Bridge

I honestly can't fathom it. I can't believe it's the bike manufacturers, I can only think it's Shimano not wanting direct sales.

It's a real shame Bafang or somebody hasn't developed a motor with the Shimano bolt pattern!

 

[R120]

No I haven’t, but I am guessing the supply of E8000 will run out sooner or later.

The EP8 is a better motor, just for me the investment wouldn’t be worth it for the gains provided.

 

[R120]

I honestly can't fathom it. I can't believe it's the bike manufacturers, I can only think it's Shimano not wanting direct sales.

It's a real shame Bafang or somebody hasn't developed a motor with the Shimano bolt pattern!

There are some motors coming up that use the same bolt pattern, this in particular looks very interesting. People behind it have serious engineering pedigree

intradrive

www.intra-drive.com

 

[Spiff]

But that's not a UK supplier and won't have UK support and I did say nothing from Gremany or the like

This is not Germany but Andorra and shipping from France.

 

[R120]

I think the reality is Ebikes are a rapidly evolving marketplace and we are still very much in the early adopter stage - it reminds me a bit of the early days of DH, (some might say the glory days) when their was a new crazy bike out every other week and the diversity of design and engineering was all over the place.

as such if you by a bike right now it’s likely to be out of date tech wise pretty rapidly, but liekely still an awesome MTB for many years. Brands do need to get on top of their customer care for older bikes, and long term support, but I suspect covid issues in the far east factories, plus the focus on bringing to market the latest and greatest mega batteried models means it’s not their top priority.

 

[steve_sordy]

As long as the bikes are selling, there is little motivation to spend loads of money on R&D. Unless of course a visionary bike maker decides to break the market!

 

[DJ57UMP]

@R120

As you seem to be properly in the know and more than sensible...

I've just had an email from Madison saying about the SD300 wiring so that would need to be updated - knew that already.

But the interesting this is that they can supply me with a motor but the manufacturer has to approve the sale.

I've gone back to them asking for a cost...

 

[DJ57UMP]

They've confirmed the RRP is £969.99 but again reiterated that they need permission from Santa Cruz before they can sell the motor.

 

[steve_sordy]

That appears to be a helpful email from Madison.

 

[DJ57UMP]

That appears to be a helpful email from Madison.

Just on with Jungle now.

 

[DJ57UMP]

So.

Madison will sell a motor to a dealer for £969.99.

Jungle are happy to email Madison giving permission for the EP8 to go into the Heckler.

So looks to me like you can give a 2 year old bike that's out of warranty a new lease of life for lets say £1500 with fitting and cables...

This is a game changer for the Shimano bikes IMO

 

[Dave_B]

do yo get warranty with that new motor Dave?

 

[DJ57UMP]

do yo get warranty with that new motor Dave?

Yep. I'm just putting together a separate post again. I really think this is important for Shimano owners if it is actually true.

 

[Master Link]

Yep. I'm just putting together a separate post again. I really think this is important for Shimano owners if it is actually true.

Great work, well done so far. I’m in the process of replacing a broken, out of warranty e8000, motor with Madison. They charge £920 for it, so paying slightly more for the EP8 is worthwhile. I realise that the display, switch and some adapters are needed but this seems worthwhile. It would be great if someone could provide a list of exactly what is needed to do the conversion. It would be even better if the parts could be sourced in the UK (Madison / other).

 

[Master Link]

I sent an email to Vitus and they have no objections

 

[steve_sordy]

@Master Link Could you get Vitus (ie CRC) to sponsor you? After all the EP8 has to be the next motor they fit and you will be saving them some development work.

 

[jimbob]

You might want to check all the plastic guards / covers would fit. I tried to replace a e7000 with an e8000 and whilst it physically fitted, the covers were way off and would have been a complete bodge job.

Still, awesome news if it is possible! As you say, opens up a whole new opportunity to upgrade our bikes.