UK fighting it out with e-scooters

[Shifty]

So with the law changing to allow restricted e-scooters. We may soon be riding along side them on UK cycle ways.

 

[MadsB]

So with the law changing to allow restricted e-scooters. We may soon be riding along side them on UK cycle ways.

Where I live in London there are loads of them about, even though technically they aren’t allowed on roads yet. And you are going to need at least a provisional licence to use one, and you can only rent them during the trial.

Will be really interesting to see what this leads to for sure.

 

[R120]

Yeah in London they are commonplace already, even more so since Covid - London it self is fecked imo for general transportation, the whole system due to its age doesn't work well for anyone, whatever form of transport you use - bicycling round London is a nightmare anyway, too many bikes, not enough road space etc etc.

 

[MadsB]

Will be interesting to see how many commuters will switch from public transport to cycling. I am lucky enough that I am only 8 miles from my office, but there should in theory be more cyclists on the road and less people on the tube and trains. But probably not less cars as those who drive generally need too, or will pay the congestion charge. This should bring about more cycle lanes and cycle ways so should be positive in the long run. And, could we see the 15.5mph limit for ebikes raised to 20 or 25mph?

 

[Beekeeper]

Let me get this right. We have to pedal to get to 15.5mph but someone on an e-scooter just has to press a button??? That’s cheating!!!

 

[TheRealPoMo]

By scooter, do you mean this?
If so, they've been here in Brisbane Australia a while.

 

[R120]

By scooter, do you mean this?
If so, they've been here in Brisbane Australia a while.
View attachment 34772

Yup - there are loads here already, they are just not legal to ride on public roads etc - though that hasn't stopped most people.

 

[SquireRides]

Its a 12 months trail in the UK. So the current law is certainly not set in stone.

Have to hold a provisional or full license, have to be over 16.

Part of the trail is debating things like top speed (12.5 or 15.5mph) and max power (350w proposed).

The trail only covers government (local gov, presumably) organised scooter hire schemes. "Privately owned e-scooters will remain illegal to use on the road, cycle lanes and tracks and pavements."

They will have to be insured, but presumably by the local gov or scheme organiser, not the rider.

SO, yes, interesting to see how different they are from eeb rules. They are being treated much more like road vehicles from a legal perspective.

Where they can ride, other than the road, will be up to the local gov I suppose. They have no legal right to be on the pavement or footpaths. [edit] The proposal is to permit them in on-road and dedicated cycle lanes. Where I live, the useless cycle lane provisions are 90% 'shared use' on pavements, so that's going to be a bit of a grey area.

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Well they started here as a local hire thing. Company charges them up and leaves them on a footpath, normally in the city. The punter grabs one, swipes his credit card and off he goes. When he gets to wherever ( < about 20km I believe) he gets off and leaves it there. Either another punter grabs it or the company collect and recharge.
Less of a problem than most thought really. A few mishaps....our nanny state will catch up at some point. I think covid put them off limits temporarily.

Can't see them worrying your emtb's off-road. You wouldn't be on an urban bike path on those full-sus Levos would ya?

Always wanted to get full as a boot with a mate and go tearing about....never did but I have an emtb for that now.

 

[Rusty]

Bloody things are all over the place here. Can't wait for the hire ones to be banned - they are a frigging blight on cities.

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Bloody things are all over the place here. Can't wait for the hire ones to be banned - they are a frigging blight on cities.

Obviously opinion is divided though...

 

[R120]

I think they are an interesting proposition - they have an appeal to me because I drive up to London each day, and then travel between various building sites before heading home - bikes get nicked in the blink of an eye, and cant be taken on to some of my sites to be stored safely, and most of my sites are within 5 miles of each other, so I can see a rental e-scooter as something I might well use, as I would dump the car further out then use one to get about - however the infrastructure in London is not at all set up to ride them safely IMO, either for the rider or those around.

 

[mark.ai]

I hope they get the full go ahead and become much more common - so privately owned ones become legal on roads too just like with e-bikes. Anything which reduces the number of cars is good IMHO - they are the real blight ... it was so nice and quiet a couple of months ago!

 

[SquireRides]

The sooner local gov start thinking about the roads as being a resource for vehicles other than cars and lorries, the better. And ultimately, better for cyclists too.

 

[SquireRides]

I hope they get the full go ahead and become much more common - so privately owned ones become legal on roads too just like with e-bikes. Anything which reduces the number of cars is good IMHO - they are the real blight ... it was so nice and quiet a couple of months ago!

Isn't it weird how people don't even see that anymore. We've come to accept that a tonne of metal can drive past, a meter away from pedestrians and cyclists, at 30mph+

And clog up the roads while they're doing it.

And be noisy and polluting.

And, you know, they dont stop if I want to get across the road! How rude is that?

But those bloody scooters....

[Edit] (I appreciate Rusty, above, is probably referring to poorly managed scooter hire schemes or jerks riding where they shouldn't. Those things are bad.)

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Yeah.....OK....
I actually try to stay out of "their" way while using the road - even though I pay rego on 4 separate dino juice powered vehicles (so I actually DO own the road...)
Only people I see clogging up roads are the lycra crew on a Sunday morning and caravaners - both of whom should be subject to natural selection and be removed from the gene pool.

Again, it bothers me why people that spend loads on a full long travel suspension eMTB care about what happens on roads and bike paths ?
Did you really spend THAT much to get 140mm + suspension travel to ride to work on the road ?

oh and if roads become predominately for cyclists rather than vehicles, then cyclists need to pay for them.
...if they can afford 8K GBP for a pushbike, they can afford road tax.

 

[maynard]

Who cares . I feel sorry for them . they should get an ebike . But yeah I live in a very country like city . If I lived in one of those horrible concrete jungles maybe one would be handy .

 

[SquireRides]

Yeah.....OK....
I actually try to stay out of "their" way while using the road - even though I pay rego on 4 separate dino juice powered vehicles (so I actually DO own the road...)
Only people I see clogging up roads are the lycra crew on a Sunday morning and caravaners - both of whom should be subject to natural selection and be removed from the gene pool.

Again, it bothers me why people that spend loads on a full long travel suspension eMTB care about what happens on roads and bike paths ?
Did you really spend THAT much to get 140mm + suspension travel to ride to work on the road ?

oh and if roads become predominately for cyclists rather than vehicles, then cyclists need to pay for them.
...if they can afford 8K GBP for a pushbike, they can afford road tax.

Well, you can't argue with that.

 

[Rusty]

Obviously opinion is divided though...

For sure.
We have taxpayer funded Accident Compensation which covers medical costs in most accidents. Just in 1 city the cost of hired scooter accidents is in the tens of millions with Drs visits, x-rays, MRI scans, hospital time and physio treatments - there are other costs, but those are ones that report figures. A teacher at the school next to me was off work 7 months after getting hit and the cost for her alone would $300K plus. .... and the companies that rent them pay nothing. If they are going to be allowed to rent these dangerous things they must have rider insurance. Hell, the law says 18 years and older but I see 12-14 year old kids on them virtually every day.

 

[urastus]

Yeah.....OK....
I actually try to stay out of "their" way while using the road - even though I pay rego on 4 separate dino juice powered vehicles (so I actually DO own the road...)
Only people I see clogging up roads are the lycra crew on a Sunday morning and caravaners - both of whom should be subject to natural selection and be removed from the gene pool.

Again, it bothers me why people that spend loads on a full long travel suspension eMTB care about what happens on roads and bike paths ?
Did you really spend THAT much to get 140mm + suspension travel to ride to work on the road ?

oh and if roads become predominately for cyclists rather than vehicles, then cyclists need to pay for them.
...if they can afford 8K GBP for a pushbike, they can afford road tax.

Every tax payer in australia pays for roads. Your registration/s are mostly insurance - none of it goes to roads; or a very small percentage. The good news is that any injury in an insured vehicle and you're covered. Don't know about speeding etc though. That's also why motorcycles cost as much to register as a small car - insurance.

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Rusty - Fair call. If I do something stupid I tend to slink off and lick my wounds quietly rather than admit stupidity but I know most don't and expect someone else to pay.

Urastus - Yep insurance is alot of it but "traffic improvement" is still a fair whack. Speed Camera revenue is probably king now, which will also fall with less vehicles. Haven't seen one for ages due to lower traffic density and that the coppers are chasing covid criminals at over $1000 a pop. As of today though, that all changes...in Queensland anyway.

 

[urastus]

Rusty - Fair call. If I do something stupid I tend to slink off and lick my wounds quietly rather than admit stupidity but I know most don't and expect someone else to pay.

Urastus - Yep insurance is alot of it but "traffic improvement" is still a fair whack. Speed Camera revenue is probably king now, which will also fall with less vehicles. Haven't seen one for ages due to lower traffic density and that the coppers are chasing covid criminals at over $1000 a pop. As of today though, that all changes...in Queensland anyway.

I've injured myself twice, pretty badly, on motorcycles. All expenses paid both times. I was maintained for two years on the last one. They tried to throw everything at me - I was turning stuff back (electric recliner lounge chair etc , regular physio visits). As you know, medical costs are phenomenal. I was able to choose my surgeon and hospital. I went from an overcrowded and underfunded disease ridden (the dude next to me had Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) to a private, very clean, airy hospital with my own room, huge windows, good food, and freedom to do as much as I could. In the public hospital I wasn't allowed out of bed; in the private one they discovered that I was making my way to the shower toilet etc; they laughed then gave me some crutches . The insurance has also paid for a course that I'm doing because I'm unable to work at what I used to. Not like typical insurance. I didn't ask for anything.

 

[#lazy]

Bloody things are all over the place here. Can't wait for the hire ones to be banned - they are a frigging blight on cities.

Cars are worse but over here it will only take a bad accident for them to be banned . Then again if they make loads of money they’ll be fine ?

 

[#lazy]

I've injured myself twice, pretty badly, on motorcycles. All expenses paid both times. I was maintained for two years on the last one. They tried to throw everything at me - I was turning stuff back (electric recliner lounge chair etc , regular physio visits). As you know, medical costs are phenomenal. I was able to choose my surgeon and hospital. I went from an overcrowded and underfunded disease ridden (the dude next to me had Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) to a private, very clean, airy hospital with my own room, huge windows, good food, and freedom to do as much as I could. In the public hospital I wasn't allowed out of bed; in the private one they discovered that I was making my way to the shower toilet etc; they laughed then gave me some crutches . The insurance have also paid for a course that I'm doing because I'm unable to work at what I used to. Not like typical insurance. I didn't ask for anything.

You poor man having to put up with being in a hospital full of sick people !

 

[urastus]

You poor man having to put up with being in a hospital full of sick people !

Hospitals here (Tasmania) are in a bad way. They have been woefully underfunded since 2014 (2.1 billion dollars withdrawn). Even basic cleanliness is lacking because of cutbacks to cleaning staff. Nurses have so many clients that they can't do their job properly. During the recent covid scare hospitals here had no stocks of ppe or hand sanitizer. That strain of golden staph originates in hospitals and generally thrives when cleanliness goes down and numbers go up - there is only one more anti biotic that can deal with it if it is methicillin resistant. It does as much harm as good. I had open wounds, and bad ones. I was shit scared - I knew it was a gamble. You may not know, but there are quite a few people who go to hospital here for basic procedures and end up dying or losing limbs etc because of this.

Indonesian hospitals 30 years ago were supposedly scary places - I am reminded of them now. I still have a heap of titanium bits and pieces inside - I won't go back to get them removed (as advised); I don't think it is worth the risk.

 

[Rusty]

Again, it bothers me why people that spend loads on a full long travel suspension eMTB care about what happens on roads and bike paths ?

Why does that bother you? Everybody I know with an eMTB - or any MTB for that matter drive cars, ride motorcycles, ride road or commuter cycles - heck, many all of that. They have a vested interest.

Did you really spend THAT much to get 140mm + suspension travel to ride to work on the road ?

Now if you were talking 180-200mm you might have an argument but I see 140/150mm travel bikes out on the cycle-ways shod with slicks quite often during the winter months. A great way to keep some fitness without slashing around in the mud.

 

[Rusty]

Rusty - Fair call. If I do something stupid I tend to slink off and lick my wounds quietly rather than admit stupidity but I know most don't and expect someone else to pay.

My life is a history lesson in stupid shit.
Hell, dad used to say I invented "Hold my beer" before I was old enough to drink. Close to retirement age and my brain still writes checks my body cant cover.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

My impression is that if your parents bought you a razor scooter when u were single digits of age, then and only then do you have the neural net to navigate on a e scooter...all others should go ahead a reserve a six hour operating room block and a two week hospital stay....I had a bicycle when I was single digits so that's what I'm best at...

 

[Banktramp]

oh and if roads become predominately for cyclists rather than vehicles, then cyclists need to pay for them.
...if they can afford 8K GBP for a pushbike, they can afford road tax.

I pay road tax on two cars, the majority of road repairs are carried out by your local council (poor condition means they don’t actually repair any pot holes) which I also pay council tax for. I also have personal insurance which cover me and third parties if I was ever to be involved in an accident.

People who say cyclist should pay road tax are stupid, when majority of them are doing it for fitness and will already be car owners.

 

[Shifty]

I think a grown man Or woman on an e scooter looks weird anywhere else than London city centre!!!