Turbo Levo 2019 Issue, New Chain Slipping

[gmodertom]

Hi guys, I hope you're all well and staying safe!

I recently replaced the chain on my turbo levo 2019 and I'm having the issue demonstrated in this video It seems like the chain is skipping and making a clunking sound. The chain I used was a KMC X11 (not the ebike version) could this be the reason, is the chain simply not up to coping with the extra power? I'm not claiming to be a bike mechanic at all but I've changed chains before on bikes with no issues. Am I doing something wrong here, does anyone have any ideas?

Kind regards
Tom

 

[Pyr0]

Have you checked the cassette teeth for wear?
or the teeth/pawls in the freehub?

 

[paquo]

it may be the cassette has worn a bit, you can put the old chain back on if possible ans see if it skips, if not you can get a few hundred miles out of it. Or new cassette with the new chain. The other thing to try with the new chain on is to adjust the b tension screw by turning it out a turn or so to give the chain more wrap

 

[gmodertom]

Thanks for the replies, the cassette does look worn but as the bike is 6 months old I wouldn't expect it to need replacing so soon? I've done somewhere in the region of 600-800km since getting the bike.

 

[oktc9712]

I have a new Giant Reign and it is doing the same thing. It seems to only do it when in the smallest chain ring and pedalling hard. My dealer is trying to convince me that it is normal. He says it is skipping in the hub

 

[gmodertom]

I have a new Giant Reign and it is doing the same thing. It seems to only do it when in the smallest chain ring and pedalling hard. My dealer is trying to convince me that it is normal. He says it is skipping in the hub

Sounds like it might be a bike shop job then I called my local specialized dealer and they have 2 to 3 week waiting list for repairs at the moment.

 

[gmodertom]

I have attached some images of my cassette and chainring, do any of you consider these worn enough to need replacing?

 

[RickBullotta]

If it is only doing it in the smaller 2-3 cogs in the rear, it may also be that the freehub body is damaged. That's not uncommon on eMTBs. The cogs actually chew away the freehub body material and start to spin/slip under load.

 

[Paul Mac]

It will 100% be the cassette has worn to much to put on a new chain without skipping.
It normally skips on the smaller cogs as they are the ones you generally use the most and they have a smaller surface area to hold the chain.
Just put the old chain back on and ride it till it dont work anymore, I did this with my levo and got about another 1500miles out of it.

 

[jxj]

2018 TL here. I'm having the best luck changing the chain cassette and chainring as a unit about every 1000 miles. The other option is to monitor chain wear with a chain wear gauge or dial caliper and replace the chain after it reaches .5% wear on the gauge. Once you get to a 1% wear point and put a new chain on, you can see tooth skipping, especially on small cogs of the cassette. This is caused by the wear on the sides of the teeth as the chain stretches and/or wears and thus lengthens. CC-3.2 Chain Checker | Park Tool

 

[Paul Mac]

2018 TL here. I'm having the best luck changing the chain cassette and chainring as a unit about every 1000 miles. The other option is to monitor chain wear with a chain wear gauge or dial caliper and replace the chain after it reaches .5% wear on the gauge. Once you get to a 1% wear point and put a new chain on, you can see tooth skipping, especially on small cogs of the cassette. This is caused by the wear on the sides of the teeth as the chain stretches and/or wears and thus lengthens. CC-3.2 Chain Checker | Park Tool

I tried this method recently on my Trek rail which uses a 12 speed cassette.
Used the park chain checker and put on a new chain when it just showed .5 wear.
Still the chain slipped on the bottom 3 gears.
I was at about 600 miles at this point.
Next time I am going to change the whole drive train and buy 2 chains, I will then just rotate them say every 200 miles.

 

[RickBullotta]

I tried this method recently on my Trek rail which uses a 12 speed cassette.
Used the park chain checker and put on a new chain when it just showed .5 wear.
Still the chain slipped on the bottom 3 gears.
I was at about 600 miles at this point.
Next time I am going to change the whole drive train and buy 2 chains, I will then just rotate them say every 200 miles.

Sounding like a broken record here, but did you pull off the cassette to see if the cogs were slipping on the freewheel? Worth a look.

 

[Paul Mac]

Sounding like a broken record here, but did you pull off the cassette to see if the cogs were slipping on the freewheel? Worth a look.

No in my case the cassette is one piece on the sram XD driver.
These cassettes are just not man enough for ebikes, that's why I think its money wasted buying a bike with a high end cassette I.e xx1 or xtr, these cassettes are junked to quickly and are like £300 a pop!

 

[RickBullotta]

No in my case the cassette is one piece on the sram XD driver.
These cassettes are just not man enough for ebikes, that's why I think its money wasted buying a bike with a high end cassette I.e xx1 or xtr, these cassettes are junked to quickly and are like £300 a pop!

Truth! The heavier cassettes from the cheaper groupsets really make a lot of sense for eMTBs. Grams don't matter as much.

 

[Paul Mac]

Truth! The heavier cassettes from the cheaper groupsets really make a lot of sense for eMTBs. Grams don't matter as much.

Roll on when these old style group sets are superseded by motors with gear boxes built in.

 

[Damino]

I’ve got a brand new 2020 Levo Comp that’s doing exactly the same thing. Did you fix the issue on your bike?

 

[gmodertom]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I'm going to put the old chain back on today and see if that solves this issue. Then I know it's the cassette and that will need changing along with the chain. I think I possibly let the chain wear too much before replacing. If the issue is still there it might be a bike shop job

 

[Andyp]

I had this issue on my 2019 Levo, had the bike sent back to specialized with full report back as I told the bike shop I didn’t
Believe that you could ‘chew’ through cassette or chain so quick. The report came back that the shop was correct, the Levo,s produce 90 nm of torque and if you put too much power with turbo mode through one gear, it will cause excessive wear. I have learnt to use the full range of gears and also put a 36t race face front sprocket on. bike had 200 miles on when these issues was caused, done a further 100 and still going strong!

 

[Mikerb]

hold on..lots of folk jumping to conclusions here. Why did you change the chain in the first place. Was that chain skipping? If not then there is nothing wrong with the cassette or hub....or indeed the original chain!! Changing to a new chain may require some re indexing of your gears or as has been suggested a little tweaking of the B adjustment. A new chain will probably be a little shorter than the one it replaced but will certainly be stiffer in terms of side flex since there will be no wear. That can require a bit of re adjustment especially on a narrow chain like a x11

 

[gmodertom]

Just an update, I put the old chain back on and and the issue is gone. The reason I changed it was because it was well past 0.75 mark when I checked it with a chain checker. I would usually replace the chain at the 0.5 mark as I've been advised for 11/12 speed drivetrains. Ironically I was changing it to prevent premature wear and extend the life of the cassette but it would tie in with other suggestions that the cassette is possibly too worn to accept a new chain. When the lockdown is over I'll get it to my local specialized shop and see what they think, if the cassette needs replacing. Thanks for all the help guys and stay safe!

 

[Mikerb]

I doubt it...just re index with the new chain. The 0.5% wear is a nonsence and even the 0.75 can be too early to change. I have bought new chains that measure 0.5%....or measure 0.5% after a couple of rides. The measuring tools are best used to monitor wear over time. Chains also vary in their tolerances from one batch to another. If it works it works! A worn cassette will make for slow gear changes and at worst chain slip. Obviously cassette damage is a different matter.

 

[Funkeydunk]

Agree, I’ve done 1100 miles on the same cassette, I’ve changed the chain twice, every time I needed to re index the mech as the chain was slipping, after 20 miles the new chain beds in and all slipping stops. However I have bought a new chain and cassette to change out at the 1500 mile mark. The issues with swapping chains at the 0.5 mark is that it teams to get there after 100 miles (2 -3 rides) and then typically gets to 0.75 at 400 miles or 4 weeks of riding, so it’s a chain every month at that rate. I’d suggest putting you new chain on and play with the indexing. Happy days.

 

[Binhill1]

Thanks for the replies, the cassette does look worn but as the bike is 6 months old I wouldn't expect it to need replacing so soon? I've done somewhere in the region of 600-800km since getting the bike.

Are you pedalling hard when it slips ? If it's only occasionally and in certain gears it is possible to bed it in and get away with it just depends how bad it is.

 

[gmodertom]

Are you pedalling hard when it slips ? If it's only occasionally and in certain gears it is possible to bed it in and get away with it just depends how bad it is.

With the old chain back on the issue is mostly gone. It's only slipping in the smaller cogs (most used gears and only occasionally when I put a lot of power down) so that would suggest some of the gears are perhaps worn out?

 

[Binhill1]

With the old chain back on the issue is mostly gone. It's only slipping in the smaller cogs (most used gears and only occasionally when I put a lot of power down) so that would suggest some of the gears are perhaps worn out?

Yes my cassette worn at 400 miles so feared the worst 2200 miles now still not slipping 3rd chain. Got all the spares for when it starts jumping. Maybe I'm gentler with it now to be honest I probably don't use smallest 2 cogs it maxs out at 15 on third no problem. It's working for me I also find I can climb technical stuff in eco instead of charging it in turbo on smaller cogs like I did at first.

 

[paulmoir]

Agree, I’ve done 1100 miles on the same cassette, I’ve changed the chain twice, every time I needed to re index the mech as the chain was slipping, after 20 miles the new chain beds in and all slipping stops. However I have bought a new chain and cassette to change out at the 1500 mile mark. The issues with swapping chains at the 0.5 mark is that it teams to get there after 100 miles (2 -3 rides) and then typically gets to 0.75 at 400 miles or 4 weeks of riding, so it’s a chain every month at that rate. I’d suggest putting you new chain on and play with the indexing. Happy days.

The chain doesn’t bed in, the chain prematurely stretches if you use it with a worn cassette (or front chainring)... because it is forced to conform to the elongated and worn cassette tooth profile. And that will cause skipping because the chain (when new) cannot properly sit into the worn tooth profile.

 

[Binhill1]

The chain doesn’t bed in, the chain prematurely stretches if you use it with a worn cassette (or front chainring)... because it is forced to conform to the elongated and worn cassette tooth profile. And that will cause skipping because the chain (when new) cannot properly sit into the worn tooth profile.

Bedded in chains and reversed chainrings when i could for over 30 years now some times it works sometimes it doesn't. Too quick to change everything out nowadays. My cassette looked horrendous at 400 miles still working nearly 2000 miles later and another 2 chains and it has done some serious climbing.

 

[paulmoir]

Bedded in chains and reversed chainrings when i could for over 30 years now some times it works sometimes it doesn't. Too quick to change everything out nowadays.

One new factor today... the high eBike torques produced (motor plus pedal force) will accelerate drivetrain wear. Ideally is to use the drivetrain as long as possible until it is worn and starts to give issue.... then change the chain, cassette and front chainring so as to maximise the life of the new drivetrain. By replacing just one component on a worn drivetrain, you will just prematurely wear that new component.

 

[Binhill1]

One new factor today... the high eBike torques produced (motor plus pedal force) will accelerate drivetrain wear. Ideally is to use the drivetrain as long as possible until it is worn and starts to give issue.... then change the chain, cassette and front chainring so as to maximise the life of the new drivetrain. By replacing just one component on a worn drivetrain, you will just prematurely wear that new component.

2400 miles only 3 chains used drive train still going ok. Could argue all week re this night night.

 

[paulmoir]

2400 miles only 3 chains used drive train still going ok. Could argue all week re this night night.

3300km (2100 miles)... original drivetrain.