Tubeless is turning into a right faff

[Gilbo]

Ok so firstly there is the expense, tubed is the cost of an inner tube so say £5, tyre levers £5 and a pump £10. Tubeless is valves at £25, sealant £15, rim tape £15, tyre pump £50. So after all that is it worth it? None of my mates bother with it, they get a puncture, they change the tube and back on it, me I have to plug it and then inflate it I personally use co2, sealant spray over the bike . I have done 1100 miles and just had my first puncture. I am beginning to wonder if it’s all worth it. I am committed to it really but would I have had more punctures with tubes? Who knows. I think if you are mainly doing tarmac riding then no it’s just not worth it. Full on off roading then maybe it’s better. What’s peoples opinions?

Slime tubes x2 £17 eBay. Fit new once a year. I even re-use them if I’m replacing a worn tyre. Took a tyre off once and it had 7 thorns poking though into tube. No pressure drop in tyre so could have been like that for ages.
And in last 12 month I’ve done close to 2000 mostly off-road miles.

 

[Ian222]

That is sounding temping to be honest

 

[Gilbo]

Go for it mate.
No faff
No mess
No brainer
Just use the “slime ones” I’ve only used those so can’t recommend and others.

 

[pagheca]

I purchased a new TREK PowerFly 7 F.S. a few weeks ago. I am pretty inexperienced (last bike purchased in 2001...) and so I accepted what was available in the limited stock here (only one shop in the island), at a pretty good price.

However, the tyres (Bontrager XR4 29") resulted NOT tubeless. Now, I understand that tubeless is much better (actually I got a first flat tyres at km 87...). Do you know if this is standard or is the seller that added the tube? Do you think it would be convenient to convert them to tubeless?

 

[Ian222]

Standard you would get tubes. All I can say is it’s expensive to get all the bits and it’s a faff to setup. If you mainly ride on the road or occasional grass then stick to tubes. Just my opinion, I am committed to tubeless for now but am swaying back the shall we say old school way.

 

[Ian222]

I give up, can’t get a seal on tubeless and now can’t even get an inner tube to go on the rim. Nightmare

 

[steve_sordy]

How long would you let the vulcanising glue set? I left it about an hour and tried pumping them up and get a leak from the puncture repair although they seemed a good fix.

Any leak should be a really small gap and therefore the sealant will take care of it.
By the way, if you are using a latex sealant with bits in it, then make sure you shake the bottle very vigorously before adding to the tyre. It's the bits that plug the hole reducing sealant flow to the point where the sealant can harden. Don't leave the bits in a the gunk at the bottom of the sealant bottle.

 

[steve_sordy]

I give up, can’t get a seal on tubeless and now can’t even get an inner tube to go on the rim. Nightmare

A mate of mine once struggled in vain to get a 26" tyre onto a 27.5" rim, but you should be able to get a 27.5" tube onto a 29" rim. Are you sure the tube is the correct size?

 

[steveL]

Once you are sorted with the installation bit, tubeless is the best! Some tire installs may need a compressor to get them to seat. And you do need to remember to top up sealant every few months, once again this isn't a big drama once you have it sorted.
You will find you get way fewer flats than with tubes, you don't need to put plugs in as most holes seal with the sealant, larger holes may need a plug or two. And just like with tubes you may tear a large hole in your tire and nothing will easily fix it.
There is a learning curve with larger punctures, with tubes I would obviously need to stop. With tubeless it is advantageous to keep riding so the hole is exposed to sealant or stop and put the hole near the bottom of the tire so that it gets maximum exposure to sealant. Small holes you may not even notice as the sealant just fills them while you are riding.

Anyway a few things change, but the reduced number of flats is well worth any minor "extra" tasks.

Steve

 

[rzr]

tubeless for 15 years. there is a bit of faff (10-20 mins?), but once per 6 months... i can handle it.

 

[F4Flyer]

Not needed for road riding with road tires (though I do on one bike and love it). I use tubeless on the gravel bike and on all the MTBs...have for 15 years or more. It is much easier and trouble-free for me. All I really do is refill sealant every 3 months. It dries up fast here in Colorado. I could prob do it every two months.

 

[Auldain]

After 3years of trying to make tubeless work on my road bike and spending £400 on various makes of tyres (Conti5000 Vitoria and Panaracer - the worst by a country mile) to replace bad cuts and serious unsealable punctures, plus seated tyres suddenly deciding to leak around bead without warning, and different sealants, valves, rim tape etc., I decided to do this, at least during the Winter on Scottish roads. Decent weight tubes, with removable cores. Injected with a good sealant (Revo or Mucoff). This is actually a return to the “Slime” system which I used on my mtb’s in the early 2000’s .
For my gravel/cx bike wheels I will continue to use a tubeless system for traction reasons and because those tyres are more durable in the first place. I think tubeless, in the perfect World, is ideal. But in the real World the ease of quickly changing a tube with less mess than putting a tube into an oozing sealant covered tyre gves peace off mind. Tubed tyres also keep their pressures for longer and require less maintenance (regular weekly rotation if you don’t use your wheels regularly.

 

[Trunkmonkey]

If you didn't get that many flats before going tubeless, there must have been a reason why you went tubeless. The main reason for riding tubeless is for lower tire pressure and no flats. When I was running tubes, I would be replacing rims every year. When you start dealing tire inserts like Cushcore, thats where the fun really begins

I ride tubeless/Cush Core and love the lower tire pressure. That said I still managed to destroy my rim! Anyways two main reasons I agree to what’s been said here. Low pressure and avoid pinch flats.

 

[steveL]

"More importantly cash outlay began". . . . that was also my observations too. Of the two shops I use many shops are very adament about I should be letting them change me over to tubeless (when the bike was a week old yet).

Tubeless is also creating an ongoing revenue stream for the LBS. The first shop charged me $50 per tire plus sealant and he was trying to mount the OEM non tubeless ready tires and they wouldn't seal (shocka). Then he put my tubes back in and charged me like another $35.

I might go tubeless when the OEM tires wear out, but as I mentioned above the tubeless tires alone are twice the cost.
And for me the worst part is the re-seating of the beads on these OEM tires (Steve did give me some good tips in another thread).
But before I go tubeless I need to buy a high volume comtressor of some sort as I'm not aying a LBS $100 to mount two tires each time or to swap them out.

Tubeless revenue reminds me of the automobile oil change cash grab as a way of creating higher revenues for dealers and repair shops. Since the newer cars don't break down as often they lose on some of the repair stuff. So an oil change and filter change used to be $20 with a coupon. Now I pay $135 to $150 for an oil and filter change. They use full synthetic which you only change once every 3-5k miles so to make up for that they now charge 8 times what the $20 oil change used to be.

Sounds like you need a new bike shop.

 

[Binhill1]

Slime for a year now no flats .

 

[Spangoolies]

I remember in the early nineties trying solid tyres on my mtb. Full rigid bike as well, probably explains a few of the health problems I’m dealing with now.
Never had a puncture with those…

 

[Tepi]

Hyvä pointti - mutta molemmat lisäävät painoa pyöriin, mikä on huonoin paikka lisätä sitä. Yksi tubelessin plussaista on painonsäästö.

Mutta olen samaa mieltä siitä, että jokaisessa asennuksessa on hyvät ja huonot puolensa – jos ei olisi, niin me kaikki käyttäisimme sitä yhtä "täydellistä" asennusta.

E-BIKE SCWALBE NOBBY NIC VAIHDETTU KERRAN 14000 KM, SISÄRENKAILLA EI YHTÄÄN PUHKEAMAA. MENEE MYÖS JATKOSSA.

 

[KnollyBro]

I ride tubeless/Cush Core and love the lower tire pressure. That said I still managed to destroy my rim! Anyways two main reasons I agree to what’s been said here. Low pressure and avoid pinch flats.

You must be hitting Cypress pretty hard to be destroying rims! Hitting Sex Girl a little slow perhaps?

 

[Sander23]

If the cost is what holds you back, you should take a look at the German webshop bikester. They have various tubeless valves, tubeless rimtape and conti revo Sealant at a 70% discount

 

[selenium]

There is no comparison - tubeless is far superior for technical terrain.

Tubes are fine most of the time, as long has you have a liner for some protection against sharp objects, such as glass. But ball cactus, goat heads, or a sharp chaparral trunk can cut through the tire and make you stop to fix it, whereas a properly-maintained tubeless tire will self-heal and you may not even know there was a close call, as you don't often even hear any air escape.

If you don't ride often, then tubeless can dry out if you don't replenish every 3 mos. or so, then you can still get a flat.

But when properly maintained, I've gone for years without a flat.

In any case, carrying a tube is still recommended, since it will be required if the side wall is sliced open on a sharp rock.

Maybe someone has experience using a more innovative solution than carrying a spare tube?

 

[Expidia]

Anyone here have experience with Tannus tire inserts or similar?

 

[Rosemount]

Funny how the whole tubeless thing has gone.
Prior it was an innertube used for decades, but admittedly the faff of getting it out/repaired etc led to us filling the tube with a special sealant.
After that they did away entirely with the tube and thats when the fun, and more importantly cash outlay began.

So you need specific tyres, sealant, valves, and while this helps fit the tyre, getting it inflated became problematic, and a specialist type pump was introduced. But still tyres were subject to punctures making holes big enough that the sealant leaked out, so what was needed was something to fix the hole were puncture plugs, along with the tool for fitting them.
Plus tubeless lose air faster than innertubes.

But despite all these advances, and the specialist tools needed when you run tubeless, it is almost always prudent to also carry with you an innertube.

Innertube cost - Average £7
Tubeless costs - Well thats the rub isnt it. Can be looking at anywhere up to £100 if you include an 'air blast' pump.

Im sure someone will point out they can run lower pressures, placing more tread onto the ground and allowing the tread to track to the terrain better. But the downside of these lower pressures means rims, which certainly are not cheap these days, at more in risk of impacting the rocks, and/or slicing through the sidewalls.

So have we moved forward ?. Or have we moved back. Or are we in pretty much the same position but spending a great deal more money and have been completely hoodwinked.


Interesting to note 90% of motocross use tubes.

Air blast pump ??
Not required .

Go to the gas station .
Take the valve core out . Use the air hose straight on the valve stem . BOOM ! tyre is seated . Now go home and add sealant through the valve stem , replace the valve and pump up to your favoured pressure .

Even with a cheap pump from the supermarket , remove the valve core . Seat the tyre then add sealant . Replace the valve and inflate . Bobs your Uncle , if he had tits he`d be your Aunty .

 

[Spin]

The fact that this thread is still active tells me the OP needs to either find a decent bike shop or go back to tubes. With all of the advice given , the amount of information and tutorials on the net , if he hasn't sorted it out by now , he never will.
FWIW , I've run tubeless since like 2007...? I'll never go back to tubes

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Air blast pump ??
Not required .

Why are they being made then ?. Why are there so many threads around the internet praising them and being recommended ?

Go to the gas station .

How do we get there ?. Walk, 2nd bike,maybe drive or take a bus.
What if the garage is shut, or the pump not working ?

 

[pagheca]

warning; stupid/naif question ahead...

why they don't make tubes having a rugged tyre outside but also a thin membrane (like the one used for tubes) on the inside. In this way the part exposed to the road would be rugged, but the sealing would be guaranteed, with no risks of leaks and no maintenance. The additional weight would be a few tenths of grams (half a tube).

 

[Zimmerframe]

warning; stupid/naif question ahead...

why they don't make tubes having a rugged tyre outside but also a thin membrane (like the one used for tubes) on the inside. In this way the part exposed to the road would be rugged, but the sealing would be guaranteed, with no risks of leaks and no maintenance. The additional weight would be a few tenths of grams (half a tube).

The "tube" side of the tubotyre would have to be installed with it's valve through the valve hole. This may not fit externally with how people like their logo's to line up !

ok, that's not really much of a problem, but if the tyre moves at all around the rim it could tear the valve off and then the whole thing is junk.

It also makes repairs harder. Yes, in theory the Tyre would be where the punctures occur, so you could plug them and squirt more sealant in - but sealant can dry out or even be used up, with the tubotyre you can't really check and you can't clean out all the crap which has potentially built up inside.

There's many examples where there could be problems, like a spoke breaks and goes back into the rim, causing an internal puncture which possibly won't seal, you couldn't just pop a tube in, likewise if the damage to the tyre was so severe that you couldn't plug it, you can't access the inside of the tyre to repair it or pop a tube in - unless you cut out the tube part of the tubotyre ..

 

[brizi2003]

I've used tubes, tubeless and Tanus inserts with tubes and they all have advantages and disadvantages. For road bikes I've only ever used tubes and don't get that many flats - when I do it's very easy and quick just to change a tube. For eMTB/MTB I think Tubeless offers the best feel and grip, followed closely by tubes - but tubes definitely result in more flats. When changing tyres tubeless is a bit more effort than just tubes. Some tubeless tyres inflate and seat easily while others require you to fit a tube first to get them to seat. I've only ever used a track pump to inflate - so it might have been easier with compressed air. Finally, Tannnus inserts with tubes - I've used these on my eMTB only and these are extremely good for preventing flats and can even cope with tyre splits without any punctures, depending on tyre size they can be more difficult to fit than just tubes and they are no longer cheap (about £25-£30 per wheel). They are the heaviest solution so can rob the bike of some feel but can be ran at very low pressures so give excellent grip. So I would say if grip/puncture protection is most important - go tannus, if feel/performance is most important - go tubeless, if simplicity/cost is most important - tubes. Something else - I've seen so many times - tubeless are great when they work but can be a faff when they don't - often taking much longer to fix trailside, due to trying to fix it, rather than just putting in a tube. At the minute I'm personally back to tubes and haven't had any punctures for a while - fingers crossed! (Kiss of death!)

 

[Expidia]

I like the tread design of my OEM Bontrager "tubed" tires. They are not available in tubeless. I have seen some other brands with some similar tread but not 2.4 in width. I did put 2 inch tires on when I first got the bike and that same night the rear tire slid out and I found myself on the ground.
Next morning they came off and the OEM went back on.
If I was a root, rock or gap jumper of course I would go with tubeless especially to potentially eliminate side wall and snake bite tube pinches when running at low pressures.

At age 73, I'm happy with single track trails, light trails, gravel, hardpack and fire roads. I only have 120mm suspension travel in the front and 100mm rear. My model is a FS hybrid eMTB and I'm more cross country style anyway, so tubes are fine for me so far or I would have bought one of Treks Rail models, but I'm told old farts can be slow healers

I also left the OEM's on as they are touted to have a Kevlar belt for added protection from punctures. Yet, it did not stop this small 2.5 inch shrard of metal from giving me my only flat in 1,000 miles. But I doubt a bacon strip was not going to plug this anyway. I'm still on the tube/tubeless fence until these tires wear out. These tires are also only $45 vs $80 for tubeles, so If I don't get anymore punctures I might even go for another set of these OEMs.

Anyone have any luck squirting a few ounces of sealant inside the tube?

 

[Ian222]

Wow this has kicked off again since I last came on here. So I fixed the two punctures with a mushroom patch and got the tyre seated on the rim put sealant in and all is well, seems to be holding air so will test it tomorrow on a ride.

I am not up to the standard of riding as some on here so I doubt I would notice a difference in ride between tubes and tubeless hence why I asked if it’s worth it in the first place.

 

[Ian222]

O and I used muc off sealant, not sure if that’s a latex or not