Tubeless advice

[TommyC]

I’ve just had my first go at a tubeless set up. They were already set up tubeless by a local bike mechanic around 2 yrs ago. I’ve only topped the sealant up once but the front tire has since given up so I thought I’d start from scratch.

I bought muc off tape and Sealant and I’m reusing the unbranded valves the mechanic fitted. When fitting the tape I couldn’t get it to sit in the well of the rim where the spoke holes are. So I’ve just stretched it and it’s only sitting on the edges. I’ve since read this is wrong. It just about makes the bead of the rim so I guess the tyre is holding the edges of the tape down. I noticed there was no pop when I inflated the tyre.

It’s been on a few days now and I’ve done 15-20 miles on it and all is ok. But I’m now starting on the rear wheel and can’t seem to get the muc off tape to follow the contour of the rim. The bike mechanic has just used what looks like blue gaffa tape? I’ve read mixed reviews on using gorilla tape but I do already have loads of it! Is there a better tape that’s more malleable? Here’s the rear when I first pulled it apart. Looks cheap and doesn’t cover the entire rim but it’s held up all this time!

I’ve got 2 mtb’s I’d like to convert too so want to make sure I’m doing the best job I can. I already messed the front tyre up the first time around and had to start all over again!

 

[Bones]

That's too narrow to get a long lasting seal.
I use wider gaffer type tape and fit one edge against the edge of the rim whilst cutting the overhanging side edges so the tape can go round the rim. Then Stanley knife the cut side of the tape into the edge.
It sounds complicated but easy enough once you get what I am trying to explain
You could even leave the blue tape on and go over it as it looks like a good fit only not wide enough.

 

[TommyC]

The blue tape has been on there 2 years. This rear one hadn’t even gone flat, just re doing it anyway. I didn’t take any photos of the new muc off tape on the front but it’s 30mm tape on a 30mm rim. I have some 50mm gorilla tape but you can buy it 25mm and my mtb’s have 25mm rims. Is gorilla tape going to do the job just as well as any rim tape?

 

[Bndit]

Use 2mm wider tubeless tape (I don`t use gorilla)than your rim, so 32mm if you have 30mm rim. After you have installed the tape tight, pushit it tighter into the rim with microfiber cloth. The push valve through the tape. I always install the tire without sealant to see if it`s airtight, because it should be. Then add sealant later.

 

[TommyC]

So I got it down this time. Took a hell of a lot longer!

Got into my groove about half way round. Laying it down taut and working into the edge of the well with my thumb nail one side at a time, going from spoke to spoke. Then going over the centre with a microfibre and finally go around the edges once it’s all on. There’s a few tiny air bubbles but hopefully they’ll work their way out with some pressure in tyre.

I’ll be interested to see if this holds out any longer than the front, which was so much quicker just stretching really tight and spanning the well.

 

[RustyIron]

That looks like a nice job that you should be able to rely upon. I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in the front, as you described it. Personally, I never "retape" a rim unless there is a compelling need to do so. The blue looked fine, and it sounds as if it held up well for a couple years.

 

[TommyC]

The blue on the front however all peeled back when the bead came off. Just doing the back to match really.

The front leaked the first time because I got the valve wrong. Second time it pumped up with no leaks at all. When I pumped this rear one up I had a leak around a spoke nipple and it lost 15psi before it sealed up. Pumped back up to 50psi and it’s holding.

I’m quite happy to repeat if necessary until I get it right.

 

[Mikerb]

I see no need for finger nails! Firstly make sure the rim is spotlessly clean. Using IPA is best. Then use the right width tape (as advised above and warm it up in an airing cupboard for a while first. Then apply keeping really good tension on the tape and using a finger to settle it into the spoke trough as you go. If you want to make sure the tape is fully settled one way to do that is to first inflate the tyre with an inner tube in it and leave for a few minutes .....but it should not be necessary.

 

[steve_sordy]

This is copied from another post on the topic of using Gorilla Tape. It is a much-shortened version of what became a long thread on the topic.

I used to swear by Gorilla tape and recommended it to all and sundry. Easy to apply, looks great and very effective, what's not to like!
That is until I could not get my tyres off! The latex sealant in the tyres had reacted with the Gorilla Tape adhesive and glued the tyre to the rim! It took two experienced guys at the LBS to remove the tyres, and it took them ages to do it. It left them with aching hands, despite using special kit. They left me with rims that were covered in a thick layer of GT adhesive and it was very troublesome to get off. The adhesive would stick to anything that touched it. I had tried all the solvents that I had in the garage, all without effect. I phoned the GT maker in the USA and they refused to tell me what solvent to use, despite them no doubt using something very effective on their production line.

To cut a long story short, take the rims outside and soak a rag in petrol and rub away at the GT residue. After 30 secs or so it suddenly softens and can be wiped off. See before and after pics.

 

[TommyC]

I had the same problem with the residue tape on the first one. Took a good hour to clean. With the second I was much more careful to peel it back on itself and it came off quite clean. I think it helped that the edges weren’t rolled up like the first one.

Everything has been cleaned with wd40 then isopropyl. I’ve just come back from dinner at my parents to find the rear has gone down a bit. If I’m going to pull it apart again I’d really like to try another rim tape. Is there not one that’s a bit more like gorilla tape, rather than the plastic muc off stuff?

 

[Mikerb]

there is nothing wrong with the Muc Off tape! A small pressure loss is fairly normal since most tyres are not fully airtight. I assume you followed the well established advice of bouncing the wheel in order to ensure the bead is fully seated all around the tyre, and rotating the tyre ( flat) on both sides to distribute the sealant around the tyre walls. I go 2 stages further. First lay the wheel on a waste bin or similar and leave for a bout 10 minutes.....turn the wheel over and repeat. I then take the bike for a short ride on the road outside rising up and down kerbs etc. The last stage flexes the tyre walls to further ensure the bead is fully sealed. Even with that complete process it is not unusual for a tubeless tyre to lose a little pressure after a ride or when left between rides for a few days.

 

[TommyC]

I’ll always bounce tires around to get them seated right, tubeless or not. When I did the front I took it for a ride straight away but I didn’t have time today for the rear. So it’s just been bounced around and spun lots with the bike in the stand. I assumed as I’m reusing tyres that have already had sealant that rotating the tyre flat probably wasn’t necessary.

I did notice when they were first converted they took a few rides to settle down. So hopefully these will settle too.

 

[Onetime]

Different strokes for different folks, but I like to use narrow 22mm Stan’s tape that only covers the spoke channel. The problem I had when using full width tape is every time you need to change the tire, the bead messes up the tape when you take the tire off and I had to then retape the rim every time. With using the narrower tape, I can change the tire as many times as I want and the tape job remains perfect. My tire is also air tight on the rim, so much so that I can run my tires for months before adding any sealant. I carry a 2oz bottle of Stan’s race sealant and plugs in my pack, so if I ever need to add any sealant, I just remove the presta valve core, squirt in the sealant, pump it back up continue my ride. I’ve been doing this since about 2006. If I ever get a leak that’s too big to seal, I’ll use a bacon strip, plug or 2 and I’m all good.

 

[TommyC]

Well the guy who converted them for me seems to have only used narrow gaffa tape and they were trouble free for years. Barely even had to pump them up and I only topped up sealant for the first time a few months ago. I did clean quite a bit of sealant off the tire bead. I had always assumed the sealant helped the tire seal to the rim, rather than the rim tape. That surely makes more sense?

I’ve got a couple of small rides in now and both tires are holding up. If they don’t last like they did before I think I might go back to a thin strip of gorilla tape.

 

[Bones]

I was always under the impression that the tyre beads sat on the tape to hold everything in place and helped to form a seal.
But it seems that's not the case for you guys!
Suppose it depends on tyre/ rim combination and how tight a fit they are

 

[Mikerb]

Maybe the issue is related to how you seat the tyre bead. If you add sealant before seating the bead there is the risk of getting sealant between the tape ( full width) and bead. Later when you remove the tyre it may then be stuck to the tape and lift or tear it. I use full width mucoff tape but inflate the tyre and seat the bead before then deflating the tyre and adding sealant through the valve stem. Never had an issue changing tyres and disturbing the tape.

 

[Onetime]

Maybe the issue is related to how you seat the tyre bead. If you add sealant before seating the bead there is the risk of getting sealant between the tape ( full width) and bead. Later when you remove the tyre it may then be stuck to the tape and lift or tear it. I use full width mucoff tape but inflate the tyre and seat the bead before then deflating the tyre and adding sealant through the valve stem. Never had an issue changing tyres and disturbing the tape.

Nah, it was because the bead is so tight when sitting on top of the tape and when you remove the tire it pulls the tape with it. There is no issue when using narrow tape. The bead sits on the rim bed and seals perfectly. So no need for full width tape. Maybe if you’re using tires with a loose or stretched out bead then you might need full width tape to help seal. I use LB carbon rims with Maxxis rubber and like I said previously, they seal and can be ridden for months without ANY sealant. Also, for those who use gorilla tape, Stan’s doesn’t leave any residue when you need to remove it. Also for those who might want to use it, when first applying the narrow Stan’s tape, it’s best clean the rim channel with some isopropyl alcohol and a clean rag then get the tape warm either by setting it in the sun for awhile, and or using a blow dryer on it before and during the application. This helps it become more pliable and it helps it stretch tight around the rim as well as making the adhesive stick to the rim better.