Tube or Tubeless?

[steve_sordy]

I have Schwalbe smart Sam tyres and tubeless ready rims on my Cube. Can I just install an appropriate valve stem and some sealant to go tubeless?

Yes you can, just check the the rim tape is in good condition. Be aware that even on a brand new bike , I have found the rim tape on an allegedly tubeless ready wheel to be not up to the task. In which case strip it off, clean with meths or iso-propyl alcohol (brake cleaner), then fit a rim tape of your choice. My LBS and I like two layers of Gorilla tape. Get in the black woven finish so that it looks like carbon fibre.

If your tyres are not marked TR (tubeless ready) then use a latex based sealant because it seals the tyre walls better than the non-latex ones do. Yes, tyre walls are porous!

Edit dated 4thDec20: I withdraw my recco for Gorilla tape for the single reason that it is a NIGHTMARE to remove! The backing pulls off OK, but it leaves behind a very thick sticky residue that is resistant to most solvents (I used Petrol and rags, keep the rags wet and keep on rubbing). Also, the tape is much thicker than proper rim tape and if you get a tight tyre, they can be a bastard to get on and off. Consider yourself warned!

 

[slippery pete]

I'm a fan of tubes. From the analogue world, running tubes in big mountains with appropriate tyres means that when the punctures happen (which is still rare), fixing them trailside is simple and not messy. With tubeless, carrying a spare tube is still the fix of last resort but a much messier affair. I've experienced those indignities one time too often.

I like the ride feel of tubes also. I don't ride much at all in areas with problem thorns. I do keep experimenting.

I've got tubeless with an insert on the rear of my emtb at the moment.; rolls well and range is good because the tyre is a lighter casing than I'd normally use but I appear to be able to burp them with aggressive riding so it's not the full answer.

I had a tubeless tyre that I flatted at the top of an enduro race stage and rode all the way down as smoothly as possible only dropping 10 seconds; fixed it with a plug, pumped it up and ended my day on the podium.

On another occasion had a simple puncture that wouldn't seal with a plug; faffed around for ages and still had to fit a tube into the slop of sealant. Worse still, if you fit a tube you haven't *fixed your tubeless setup*; you still have extra work to do when you get home and the messy tube to deal with. With tubes, as soon as the tube is replaced and pumped up you're back to full normal function.

 

[JoeBlow]

It's amazing how different personal experiences can be and how they influence your thought process. I consider the money I spent on going tubeless to be THE best investment I have made on the bike. I've got a new bike coming and it's the first thing I will do to it. 7 punctures in 3 rides is bound to put one off tubes. I even took the bike back to the shop suggesting to them that there was something wrong with the wheels.

 

[GrahamPaul]

It's amazing how different personal experiences can be and how they influence your thought process. I consider the money I spent on going tubeless to be THE best investment I have made on the bike. I've got a new bike coming and it's the first thing I will do to it. 7 punctures in 3 rides is bound to put one off tubes. I even took the bike back to the shop suggesting to them that there was something wrong with the wheels.

Too true.

Last Tuesday night was out in the forest on a club ride when the youngster trying for glory broke a spoke which somehow then went through the rim tape and tyre. I don't care what liquid you're using, that ain't gonna seal.

I offered him the use of a tube to save him an hour's walk out and he looked at me like I was mad. When I thought about it, I realised that he'd probably have to spend most of that hour removing the thorns from his tyre to be able to pump it up without puncturing straight away. Followed by a fresh puncture from the acacia thorns within the first hundred metres... Better to walk.

 

[Bobajobbob]

Sorry really dumb question but how does running no tube protect you from punctures? Do you fill the empty tube with some kind of sealant that "heals" the tire if a hole is made?

 

[KeithR]

In the countryside, on bridleways and the like, and pretty much any of the forest trails anywhere in the UK will have the following.
Hawthorne trees/bushes have spikes that will go though your shoe! In addition, mature Brambles can be most unpleasant.

Blackthorn/sloe thorns have always been my nemesis - they're everywhere in my part of the world.

I pretty much stopped riding for a few years because I was so sick of punctures caused by the bloody things: I got to the point of paranoia over the likelihood that the buggers would flat me again, and that feeling really takes the fun out of riding.

They're the specific reason for my move to tubeless, and the difference has been night and day.

 

[steve_sordy]

Sorry really dumb question but how does running no tube protect you from punctures? Do you fill the empty tube with some kind of sealant that "heals" the tire if a hole is made?

Not a dumb question. Going tubeless will not stop you getting punctures, but it will stop you getting flats if you use a sealant. Going tubeless by itself gives a variety of advantages (weight saving, acceleration, ride feel, grip...), but it is only by the use of sealant that you stop the flats as well.

 

[JoeBlow]

Not a dumb question. Going tubeless will not stop you getting punctures, but it will stop you getting flats if you use a sealant. Going tubeless by itself gives a variety of advantages (weight saving, acceleration, ride feel, grip...), but it is only by the use of sealant that you stop the flats as well.

It's interesting once upon a time punctures were synonymous with flats. If you said one you meant the other and vice versa. I imagine it's tubeless technology that has created the distinction.

 

[KeithR]

Sorry really dumb question but how does running no tube protect you from punctures? Do you fill the empty tube with some kind of sealant that "heals" the tire if a hole is made?

How To Convert Your MTB To Tubeless | Tredz Bikes

We show you how to quickly and confidently convert your MTB to tubeless. See our video guide here

www.tredz.co.uk

 

[Bobajobbob]

Not a dumb question. Going tubeless will not stop you getting punctures, but it will stop you getting flats if you use a sealant. Going tubeless by itself gives a variety of advantages (weight saving, acceleration, ride feel, grip...), but it is only by the use of sealant that you stop the flats as well.

Thanks, you learn something every day.

 

[Patchinko]

Yes you can, just check the the rim tape is in good condition. Be aware that even on a brand new bike , I have found the rim tape on an allegedly tubeless ready wheel to be not up to the task. In which case strip it off, clean with meths or iso-propyl alcohol (brake cleaner), then fit a rim tape of your choice. My LBS and I like two layers of Gorilla tape. Get in the black woven finish so that it looks like carbon fibre.

If your tyres are not marked TR (tubeless ready) then use a latex based sealant because it seals the tyre walls better than the non-latex ones do. Yes, tyre walls are porous!

Thanks, I meant to say Schwalbe nobby nic, I can't see TR on the tyre anywhere. I use a rim sealant when fitting tubeless motorcycle tyres, will this help with tubeless mtb tyres?

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks, I meant to say Schwalbe nobby nic, I can't see TR on the tyre anywhere. I use a rim sealant when fitting tubeless motorcycle tyres, will this help with tubeless mtb tyres?

I can't answer your question because I'm not sure what rim sealant is. For a tyre that is not TR, then you have to seal the sidewalls. Just buy any latex based tubeless tyre sealant. There are many, but Stans is the best known.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Thanks, I meant to say Schwalbe nobby nic, I can't see TR on the tyre anywhere. I use a rim sealant when fitting tubeless motorcycle tyres, will this help with tubeless mtb tyres?

If those are the Nobby Nic's that are non-folding rigid and cost you less than 20 quid then they are not tubeless ready. The tyre sealant will bleed through the sidewalls to such an extent that you'll see the weave pattern through the rubber wall.

Once you've spent a couple of days getting them to seal, you'll find that they squirm so badly that you'll have to pump them hard.

What makes you think I bought that t-shirt?

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Thanks, I meant to say Schwalbe nobby nic, I can't see TR on the tyre anywhere. I use a rim sealant when fitting tubeless motorcycle tyres, will this help with tubeless mtb tyres?

My 2019 Cube came with Nobby Nics so dunno if they are the same, but they sealed with Stan's sealant and rimtape no probs.
The sidewalls did bleed a few air bubbles when I stuck it in water but they did seal. I left them sit horizontal on each side for 20 min or so. Done about 2000km since. One hissing puncture that sealed itself in a few minutes.

 

[Patchinko]

If those are the Nobby Nic's that are non-folding rigid and cost you less than 20 quid then they are not tubeless ready. The tyre sealant will bleed through the sidewalls to such an extent that you'll see the weave pattern through the rubber wall.

Once you've spent a couple of days getting them to seal, you'll find that they squirm so badly that you'll have to pump them hard.

What makes you think I bought that t-shirt?

They came with the bike so not sure which ones they are, hopefully they would be ok as per previous post.

 

[FSEngineer]

For anyone curious about tyre inserts with tubeless, I'd recommend Rimpact - they're far more cost-effective than Cushcore, and they just work. A friend recently managed to ride out after a flat (sidewall cut) half way through an 8 mile trail ride thanks to the Rimpact insert, would have been walking otherwise. They also help stop the tyre folding under hard cornering, and let you run lower pressures - acting very similarly to a volume spacer in your air fork or shock (quicker pressure ramp up from lower air volume).

 

[urastus]

I tried tubeless on the rear and didn't like it. I had to add pressure because there was less damping without a tube. Now, that's a dhrII with exo casing; just not strong enough. I have a few exo tyres for the rear, so I've bought a tannus insert and smaller welter weight tube till I use those exo tyres up. The insert is awesome with those softwall tyres. I now run the rear at 15 - it was 19 tubeless.

The front is also an exo and I've made it tubeless. I just added one psi extra and it seems fine. My plan for the future is exo+ tubeless in front. The rear I would like an eddy current rear - that's more than stiff enough to go tubeless. If they're too expensive or I get a good deal on an exo tyre, I'll keep running the tannus insert.

 

[p060064h]

Absolute pain in the dick to fit tubeless sometimes but more than worth it.
I dont run an insert im 100kg ride hard BMCC BPW FOD run low to high 20s psi depending on the conditions.
Not had a flat since owning the bike 15 months ago.

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Just changed my original OEM Nobby Nic that I went tubeless with 9 months ago.
These were "tubeless ready" I believe and like I said earlier, they sealed after a fair bit of what i think was air bleeding through the sidewall. SInce then, I always check the pressures every ride and generally have to put a few psi in them.
After fitting the new Nobby Nic with TLE (tubeless easy), there appeared to be no bleeding and I don't need to top up as regularly.
So the old OEM types without TLE will work with some care but the new TLE ones seem much more suited.

 

[KeithR]

Absolute pain in the dick to fit tubeless sometimes

If it hurts there, you're doing it wrong.

That's not we mean when we say "use the right tool for the job..."

 

[Singletrackmind]

Standard 2018 Levo and 2.8 Butcher tyres, anyone had some burps with tubeless? I am leaning towards tubeless, fitted the odd 1000 tyres in a past life as a mechanic so change is not an issue!

My personal feelings are the stock Specialized tires on the Levo's leave a lot to be desired. Of course the type of trails you are riding play a big factor. I changed out the tires on my Levo to Schwalbe Eddy Currents and could not be happier. For my riding conditions, the 2.6's on front and back is a winning combination!

 

[nickfrog]

I use Eddy Currents too in 2.6 29 and they are tubeless fit and forget. I expect to top up every 12 months but that's it. The sidewalls lend themselves very well to tubeless.

 

[Sportsman]

Tried tubeless wasn't keen so got tubes with Tannus tyre inserts in perfect

 

[GolfMaster52]

The same just happened to me.

You can put a dollar bill in between the tube and tire to get yourself home.

Question is what if you only have a $20? Ha ha. I have also used the wrapper from a protein bar.

 

[Steve940]

Tubeless and in the 6-7months it's proved faultless...not the tubes wouldn't have,I mean who knows..

 

[The Hodge]

Tubeless ..but I always carry at least one spare tube ..so no weight saving there !?
Also depending on how good I've been I carry a spare tyre too ..

 

[>moto<]

I'm surprised at how many people don't understand one of the fundamental reasons to run tubeless and that is the weight loss. Reducing weight from your wheels reduces unsprung mass and rotational mass. Roughly speaking rotational mass is three times harder to accelerate/decelerate than srpung mass.

When combined with the fact that you can get a puncture and keep riding, can run lower pressures for better grip, and have a bike that handles (marginally) better, it really is a no brainer.

Viewed from a cost/benefit persepctive, I don't think there is a better mod you could do to your bike.

 

[KeithR]

so no weight saving there !?

Unless you've got the spare tube zip-tied to your wheel, you're still benefitting.

 

[Rusty]

Standard 2018 Levo and 2.8 Butcher tyres, anyone had some burps with tubeless?

Burps are why I changed back to tubes. That and because I change tires fairly often (even with 2 wheelsets) and I hate the mess involved.

Saying that - I don't ride in an area with lots of cactus, boxthorn or bramble so I don't suffer from those spiny things causing issues. As I am a bigger unit and run higher pressures to stop tire squirm I don't really suffer from pinch flats either.

I do take exception to the premise that tubeless creates less rolling resistance. Have not seen a proper test on a rolling road that proves this beyond doubt.

 

[>moto<]

I do take exception to the premise that tubeless creates less rolling resistance. Have not seen a proper test on a rolling road that proves this beyond doubt.

I think the premise is based on the slightly different tyre shape you might get when not using a tube. A tube fills up in a cylindrical shape until it contacts the tire, whereas without a tube it's solely the natural shape of the tyre.

Either way, sounds like BS to me. It would greatly depend on the natural tyre shape and the pressure you run it at. Given most people that run tubeless run the same or lower pressures, I think it's more likely that rolling resistance in an average tubeless setup is higher.