Trek Rail 9.9 vs Specialized S-Works Turbo Levo

[PumpinIron]

These are the two bikes I'm considering.

I had a chance to ride a Rail 7 locally and a Turbo Levo (non S-Works model).

I can honestly say I liked them both equally. Both are top end bikes with the top end components I want.

Both have outstanding warranties and dealer support from what I am told.

Some complain about the noise and rattling from the Bosch motors, others complain about the reliability of the Brose motors.

I'm honestly having a hell of a time making a first world decision here as to which bike I should buy. I like them both, and I can't find faults with either.

I'm not some sort of hardcore basher who plans on destroying them in short order. I like riding trails for fitness and for fun. I'll never ride either of them through the water, and really plan to stick to the trails here in Arizona, as well as maybe some on-road riding if I'm going to the gym or somewhere nearby.

Any input is welcome

 

[Funkeydunk]

Toss a coin, both outstanding bikes. Probably comes down to which one you like the colour of best

 

[PumpinIron]

Toss a coin, both outstanding bikes. Probably comes down to which one you like the colour of best

Haha, sort of where I'm at right now.

The only thing the Trek has over the Specialized is the SRAM X01 Eagle AXS drivetrain. Never ridden a bike with the wireless shifting. Not sure if it's worth it or not.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Zammo @Paul Mac have has both I believe

 

[Funkeydunk]

Haha, sort of where I'm at right now.

The only thing the Trek has over the Specialized is the SRAM X01 Eagle AXS drivetrain. Never ridden a bike with the wireless shifting. Not sure if it's worth it or not.

Just bear in mind if you rip a mech off, it’ll cost a fortune to replace. Good luck ?

 

[PumpinIron]

Just bear in mind if you rip a mech off, it’ll cost a fortune to replace. Good luck ?

Yep, that's one of the things I'm considering. I've never ripped one off before, but I also don't bash insanely hard or anything, so that would have something to do with it.

@Zammo @Paul Mac have has both I believe

Thanks Rob.

I'd be curious to hear which one of the two bikes these guys find themselves riding more often.

 

[p3eps]

I had the same decision to make back in January. I was swithering between the two, and the Brose reliability was one one my main concerns. I live in Scotland, and my bike is continually caked in mud - so I wash it regularly with a hose.

For me, I thought the Rail 9.9 was a better all round package, for a slightly better price. RRP was £9500, but I could get it for £8025. The Levo S-Works was £10999 RRP, and the best I could get it for was £10000.

I’ve run the SRAM Eagle XX1 on my Stumpjumper since it came out, and was determined to have the same on my eMTB. I also really wanted the AXS components. The S-Works came with the dropper, but not the Eagle AXS - so I’d be upgrading it straight away at around £650 which would hike the price up even more.

The Gen4 motor was only a few months old, so was going to be the ‘latest model’ for a while. The Brose has done 2 years of bikes, and was likely to be updated next model.

I’ve had Specialized bikes for years and have always had a great experience in any issues. I was told that Trek have an equally good warranty scheme (if not better), so there were no concerns with either.
I also loved the discreet TCU display of the Levo, and thought the Kiox display was nasty looking. Trek have the best mount I’ve seen for it - but it still looked out of place.

In the end, I went with the Rail 9.9, and had it for 2 weeks... when Specialized announced the Levo SL. Although I really enjoyed the Rail, it had way more power than I needed. I used eMTB mode most of the time, and the times I used Eco, I felt I’d have been better on my Stumpjumper. It was very capable, but also felt very heavy. I could do my regular 1hr 25min route on my Stumpy in 45mins on the Rail, as it breezed up the hills.

I owned the Rail 9.9 for 3 weeks before swapping it for the Levo SL, and never looked back. I did swap the drivetrain on the SL for the XX1 AXS as I loved it so much!
The Levo SL needs a 12 speed range, as it has significantly less power. The Rail could do with a 10 speed (or less), as I can’t imagine anyone ever needing the first 3 gears unless they’re riding with the motor off.

The Rail was a great bike. It just wasn’t for me. I wanted something that would give me a bit of extra oomph when needed, but that I still had to use my legs. Lighter, and more nimble - the SL ticks all my boxes!

Good luck with the choice - I’m sure you’ll be happy either way.

 

[PumpinIron]

Damn, the S-Works Levo SL is 13k, even more than the rail!

I haven't had the chance to ride a Level SL, only the Turbo Levo. Would be interesting to see how that felt with the smaller motor.

 

[Paul Mac]

Yep, that's one of the things I'm considering. I've never ripped one off before, but I also don't bash insanely hard or anything, so that would have something to do with it.



Thanks Rob.

I'd be curious to hear which one of the two bikes these guys find themselves riding more often.

As Rob has said, I have had the 2019 Levo expert and now have a Trek rail 9.8.
While my mate had the 2019 Levo S Works and now has the Rail 9.9.
Both are great bikes, in my opinion up they're with the best available, but they are quite different.
Main reason both got rid of the Levos was down to reliability (lack of).
However I really enjoyed the Levo.
But for me fundamentally I do now prefer the Rail.
The Rail is a burlier bike and feels it, it is more capable when the terrain gets gnarlier.
I also like the Bosch motor better. It's not as natural as the Levo, with a noticeable surge when you first start peddling, but its quite addictive when you get used to it.
It feels more powerful than the Brose motor, but on paper that isn't the case, so don't know why that is.
Both bikes are build well, but I think you get more for your money with the Trek, especially if you shop around.
Levo is still the long range winner though, with about 7 miles further on a full charge.
This is mainly because you can alter Eco mode on the Levo to be usable, where Eco on the Trek is hard work anywhere other than fire roads.
That's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.
Also again in my opinion unless money is no object, I think the lower models in both bikes are just as capable as the top models and you're just paying for bling.
Also if like me you like to change bikes regularly, you don't lose as much money either.
The choice is yours, but also be aware the Trek is brand new where as the Levo will probably be updated next year.

 

[R120]

I'm not some sort of hardcore basher who plans on destroying them in short order. I like riding trails for fitness and for fun. I'll never ride either of them through the water, and really plan to stick to the trails here in Arizona, as well as maybe some on-road riding if I'm going to the gym or somewhere nearby.

Any input is welcome

Out of interest, if this is the riding you intend to do, why go for an S-Works or 9.9? Seems like dropping a lot of money on a bike when there are models further down the range that will do just as good a job.

Personally if looking at the Rail or the Levo with that kind of riding in mind I would go for the Trek Rail 9, which is the top spec alloy version, and spend the change on a spare battery. Its also going to handle being thrown in the back of a truck/garage (or down a trail ) a lot better.

Rail 9 | Trek Bikes (GB)

They are both great bikes, but I think the Rail has been very well thought out with Trek having spent time all the little things details that are important when it comes to the day to day realties of owning and maintaining an EMTB. Its one of the most well though out EMTB's

 

[PumpinIron]

As Rob has said, I have had the 2019 Levo expert and now have a Trek rail 9.8.
While my mate had the 2019 Levo S Works and now has the Rail 9.9.
Both are great bikes, in my opinion up they're with the best available, but they are quite different.
Main reason both got rid of the Levos was down to reliability (lack of).
However I really enjoyed the Levo.
But for me fundamentally I do now prefer the Rail.
The Rail is a burlier bike and feels it, it is more capable when the terrain gets gnarlier.
I also like the Bosch motor better. It's not as natural as the Levo, with a noticeable surge when you first start peddling, but its quite addictive when you get used to it.
It feels more powerful than the Brose motor, but on paper that isn't the case, so don't know why that is.
Both bikes are build well, but I think you get more for your money with the Trek, especially if you shop around.
Levo is still the long range winner though, with about 7 miles further on a full charge.
This is mainly because you can alter Eco mode on the Levo to be usable, where Eco on the Trek is hard work anywhere other than fire roads.
That's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.
Also again in my opinion unless money is no object, I think the lower models in both bikes are just as capable as the top models and you're just paying for bling.
Also if like me you like to change bikes regularly, you don't lose as much money either.
The choice is yours, but also be aware the Trek is brand new where as the Levo will probably be updated next year.

I think that's about all I needed to know to push me towards the Rail.

As far as the bling goes, the Rail 9.9 intrigued me because of the AXS wireless shifting, and the top end suspension. Not to say I could use all that top end suspension, but I'm not sure if it hurts to have it... well, other than the wallet, haha.

Out of interest, if this is the riding you intend to do, why go for an S-Works or 9.9? Seems like dropping a lot of money on a bike when there are models further down the range that will do just as good a job.

Personally if looking at the Rail or the Levo with that kind of riding in mind I would go for the Trek Rail 9, which is the top spec alloy version, and spend the change on a spare battery. Its also going to handle being thrown in the back of a truck/garage (or down a trail ) a lot better.

Rail 9 | Trek Bikes (GB)

They are both great bikes, but I think the Rail has been very well thought out with Trek having spent time all the little things details that are important when it comes to the day to day realties of owning and maintaining an EMTB. Its one of the most well though out EMTB's

Did you mean to say the Rail 7? I was looking at the Rail 7 actually, but I've heard from others that the carbon frame actually makes a substantial difference in terms of the way the bikes ride and feel. I've never compared them back-to-back to be honest, so I wasn't entire sure.

 

[Paul Mac]

I think that's about all I needed to know to push me towards the Rail.

As far as the bling goes, the Rail 9.9 intrigued me because of the AXS wireless shifting, and the top end suspension. Not to say I could use all that top end suspension, but I'm not sure if it hurts to have it... well, other than the wallet, haha.




Did you mean to say the Rail 7? I was looking at the Rail 7 actually, but I've heard from others that the carbon frame actually makes a substantial difference in terms of the way the bikes ride and feel. I've never compared them back-to-back to be honest, so I wasn't entire sure.

No the Rail 9 has exactly the same equipment on it as the 9.8, it's just the later has a carbon frame.
I test rode the 9 before buying and to be honest could not feel much of a difference between them, I only went for carbon as that is what my Levo was and in the Trek range the carbon was only £700 more and I preferred the colour.
As for the the more expensive running gear, be aware ebikes eat these items.
For example my mates 9.9 has a £300 Eagle cassette which is now toast in 800 miles.
He's renewed it with a cheaper £100 one, we've only had the bikes 3 months!

 

[PumpinIron]

No the Rail 9 has exactly the same equipment on it as the 9.8, it's just the later has a carbon frame.
I test rode the 9 before buying and to be honest could not feel much of a difference between them, I only went for carbon as that is what my Levo was and in the Trek range the carbon was only £700 more and I preferred the colour.
As for the the more expensive running gear, be aware ebikes eat these items.
For example my mates 9.9 has a £300 Eagle cassette which is now toast in 800 miles.
He's renewed it with a cheaper £100 one, we've only had the bikes 3 months!

Shocks too? Or just the cassettes and such?

That makes me rethink the AXS option. I have no idea how much it costs to replace a cassette on a SRAM X01 Eagle AXS, but I'm guessing it's expensive as hell.

Trek doesn't have any 9.8s in stock it looks like (lots of 9.8s), so maybe I need to call some local shops and see.

 

[R120]

The point I was making is that the top end bike is often not actually the best real world one, so don’t feel like the most expensive version has to be the one to go for if you can afford it. What @Paul Mac says holds a lot of water, in that with an EMTB you want a balance between durability and bling.

The AXS works well on an EMTB by all accounts, I would use it with a GX cassette though.

Personally on an EMTB I can’t tell the difference between a carbon and an alloy frame, the overall weight of the things is too big to notice any meaningful difference IMO and the the quality of the components is far more noticeable, hence for my the preference would always be for an alloy frame with top kit on it, but I get why people like carbon.

 

[PumpinIron]

The point I was making is that the top end bike is often not actually the best real world one, so don’t feel like the most expensive version has to be the one to go for if you can afford it. What @Paul Mac says holds a lot of water, in that with an EMTB you want a balance between durability and bling.

The AXS works well on an EMTB by all accounts, I would use it with a GX cassette though.

Personally on an EMTB I can’t tell the difference between a carbon and an alloy frame, the overall weight of the things is too big to notice any meaningful difference IMO and the the quality of the components is far more noticeable, hence for my the preference would always be for an alloy frame with top kit on it, but I get why people like carbon.

I think in that case I may throw the Rail 7 into the mix. My local bike shop has one in stock. It's a lot cheaper ($6000), but I could always use the money saved for mods.

Truthfully, I have yet to ride a bike with AXS on it. I will say however that shifting on MTBs these days is so good even in mechanical form, that I'm honestly not sure I would need any improvement.

As for the alloy versus carbon thing, I suspect you're right. I was just thinking that if the bike runs out of juice, maybe the carbon frame equates to lighter weight, which means less of a workout to get it back to base.

Of course I don't actually know what the weight difference is between alloy and carbon, but I suspect it's not as much as I am thinking it is in my head, huh?

 

[Paul Mac]

I think in that case I may throw the Rail 7 into the mix. My local bike shop has one in stock. It's a lot cheaper ($6000), but I could always use the money saved for mods.

Truthfully, I have yet to ride a bike with AXS on it. I will say however that shifting on MTBs these days is so good even in mechanical form, that I'm honestly not sure I would need any improvement.

As for the alloy versus carbon thing, I suspect you're right. I was just thinking that if the bike runs out of juice, maybe the carbon frame equates to lighter weight, which means less of a workout to get it back to base.

Of course I don't actually know what the weight difference is between alloy and carbon, but I suspect it's not as much as I am thinking it is in my head, huh?

There is just under a 2 kg weight difference between the carbon and aluminium version.
You can feel the difference when physically picking the bikes up, but this disappears when riding.
The rail 7 is a good choice, but I would personally plump for the Rail 9 if you can, it is about £500 more expensive, but you get a Lyric over a yari fork, the next shock up in the range, and a 150mm dropper opposed to a 130mm on the 7.

 

[PumpinIron]

There is just under a 2 kg weight difference between the carbon and aluminium version.
You can feel the difference when physically picking the bikes up, but this disappears when riding.
The rail 7 is a good choice, but I would personally plump for the Rail 9 if you can, it is about £500 more expensive, but you get a Lyric over a yari fork, the next shock up in the range, and a 150mm dropper opposed to a 130mm on the 7.

Yeah, I could either get the Rail 7 and upgrade the suspension, or just get the Rail 9.8 and get the already upgraded suspension, carbon frame, and the carbon wheels.

 

[Eddy Current]

The Levo is more all rounder and the trek is more on the descends side. Out of that and @Paul Mac correct me if I wrong, the Trek is a bit more cumbersome than the Levo ...?

 

[Paul Mac]

The Levo is more all rounder and the trek is more on the descends side. Out of that and @Paul Mac correct me if I wrong, the Trek is a bit more cumbersome than the Levo ...?

I wouldn't say it is more cumbersome, it's just a stiffer bike.
The lyrics are more sturdy than the pikes I had on the levo, but newer Levos also have lyrics.
I would say on flatter terrain, the levo does feel more in its element that the rail, but I think that's just a geometry thing, as the Trek has a higher front end.

 

[Rich_H]

This has been an interesting read, and I wish I was in a position to have your dilemma. What I am about to say may not help, so sorry if it detracts from the main topic in the thread. I have a Canyon Spectral on, an aluminium full suss and a carbon hardtail. I love them all. The e-bike is bloody heavy, but its like a Range Rover in that it will hit anything up or down that I have nads to take on. I love riding it, but it is a different experience to the other bikes, no better or worse, just different. I did upgrade the rear shock on the Canyon to a Fox DPX2 and find the rear really plush now, better than the other two bikes, and it has 150mm travel both ends, again more than my other two. I plan to take the e-bike to the Alps - not for the battery but just because it will be more capable coming down the mountains. If I was buying an e-bike again I would consider the 7 speed drive train as I don't seem to use that many gears. I would definitely consider the cost of chain/chainrings/cassette/mech replacements.

What I am really saying though it feels to me that current e-bikes are different to analogue bikes, due to the weight. The gaps getting smaller, but its still there. And that being the case, I'd buy an e-bike and a 'normal' bike and have 'burlier' spec on the one with the battery.

Re the two you are considering, there's nothing in it for me so I would go with the one you like the look of most. When you are spending a chunk, what you feel about it probably matters as much as anything else.

Good luck with your purchase, I'm sure you'll love and upgrade/change whatever you buy anyway.

 

[Zero]

Just bear in mind if you rip a mech off, it’ll cost a fortune to replace. Good luck ?

Doesnt really matter if you are willing to burn 10 grand on a bicycle. In 12 months its worth £3k at a dealer and even less on ebay.